223 trunion question

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 223 trunion question

Posted: 1/18/2006 7:23:08 PM EDT

Are they available?

Thanks

Posted: 1/19/2006 4:42:51 PM EDT

[#1]

I am looking for one also. I was thinking of using a 5.45 trunnion from an AK74. The barrel I have is Bulgarian and is the same dia. (22mm) as the Bulgarian AK74 trunnion.

Posted: 1/19/2006 7:01:48 PM EDT

[#2]

I was wondering if that would work. might have feed problems, but you could probaly fix that with a 5.56 feed ramp on the 74 trunion.

Anybody else try this, or have any comments.

All help is appreciated.

Thanks

Posted: 1/20/2006 1:19:36 AM EDT

[#3]

223 barrel is 23mm
545 barrel is 22mm

if your barrel is 22mm its not 223

Posted: 1/20/2006 1:43:02 PM EDT

[#4]

Could you turn down the barrell to 22mm.

Or couldn't you reem out the trunion to 23mm..this would probably be easier.

Socandyman...what are your thoughts..

Thanks

Posted: 1/20/2006 2:23:57 PM EDT

[#5]

Isn't the Romainian AK47 (AIM) trunion a 23mm?

Wouldn't that work?

Posted: 1/20/2006 7:01:48 PM EDT

[#6]

I have a Bulgarian 223 barrel that is 22mm . I have already pressed it into a 5.45 trunnion from an AK74. It came from the factory as 22mm. I am waiting on a bolt and carrier to see if the bolt will mate to the trunnion.

Posted: 1/21/2006 10:13:26 AM EDT

[#7]

Keep me updated..

Thanks

Posted: 1/21/2006 12:09:12 PM EDT

[#8]

Is barrels dia usually same? I heard at norincos (7,62) dia is 19 mm?? What about thread fastenens barrels? Does it have somekind standard thread - M24 or something?? Any knowledge for threadeds barrels and fastenings to milled recivers?

Posted: 1/21/2006 12:39:41 PM EDT

[#9]

Bottom line is that none of the 5.56 AK platforms are compatable.... One can not simply mix and match parts from all the different nations, or calibers and expect it to work.. Look at the differences between a 5.45 and 7.62 gun. Besides the barrel and bolt, there is the bolt carrier, trunnion, feed ramp, and a host of other differences.

Posted: 1/21/2006 12:50:09 PM EDT

[#10]

I would guess that you are correct that most of the parts do not interchange.

Not wanting to start an argument....

If a Bulgarian barrell fit a Romainian trunion, and you used a Bulgarian feed ramp...I would not see a problem. You would of course need a Carrier and bolt, both available (Bulgarian) from K-VAR.

So the only "mix and match" part would be the trunion. Correct me if I am wrong.

Posted: 1/21/2006 1:07:31 PM EDT

[#11]

i looked into building a 223 while back

what i came up with is this

the trunnion for a 223 is 23mm same as 47
and the bolt lugs are same as a 74

mayb if i feel better alittle later ill go measure them for you :)

Posted: 1/21/2006 5:37:03 PM EDT

[#12]

I hope you feel better...

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks

Posted: 1/22/2006 5:53:50 PM EDT

[#13]

Is the gap between the rails and the top of the reciever the same on all three calibers?

Can you use the same reciever...

AK 74 mags are narrower...correct

Any luck on those measurements Socandyman?

Posted: 1/23/2006 3:00:14 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
i looked into building a 223 while back

what i came up with is this

the trunnion for a 223 is 23mm same as 47
and the bolt lugs are same as a 74

mayb if i feel better alittle later ill go measure them for you :)

Yes, but what about the feed ramp/ mag lock up area? Look at the differences between an AKM and an AK74....

Posted: 1/23/2006 3:58:27 AM EDT

[#15]

ok i finaly got off my ass

the 223 bolt is almost exactly like a 74 bolt (except bolt face )
the 223 barrel seems to be slightly diff with a thicker barrel and a tiney gas port under 1/2 norm size

the bolts on the 223/74 have longer locking lugs
so i dont think you can use a 47 trunnion

Posted: 1/23/2006 1:30:32 PM EDT

[#16]

I have used a 74 Bulgarian trunnion and .223 Bulgarian barrel. The barrel needed to be turned down, The stock 74 bolt will work with the .223 barrel. You will need to find .223 mags. The 5.45 mags are just a bit off angle for reliable feeding.

Posted: 1/24/2006 4:01:09 PM EDT

[#17]

So you basically built a 74 with a .223 barrell..am I correct.

How odes it function..reliability.

Which type of .223 mags did you use.

Posted: 1/24/2006 7:37:58 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
So you basically built a 74 with a .223 barrell..am I correct.

How odes it function..reliability.

Which type of .223 mags did you use.

Yup.. Its running OK with modded 74 mags. Sill looking for some .223 mags.

Posted: 1/25/2006 12:23:09 PM EDT

[#19]

Fat_McNasty

What kind of accuracy are you getting.

Any Pics

...

ARe the .223 mags and the 74 mags the same dimensions except the angle?

Thanks everyone..

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:37:28 PM EDT

[#20]

Its important to remember that 5.56 are either based on the AKM or AK74.
Russian = 74 pattern
China = AKM pattern
Bulgaria = AKM Pattern
Romanian = 74 pattern but bastardization of parts.
The important thing for any 5.56 build is to determine which pattern you want to build.

Posted: 1/25/2006 3:44:53 PM EDT

[#21]

The pattern of the build will also dictate the type of the mag and feedramp used. If properly built a 5.56 AK will run just as well as any AK.

Posted: 1/25/2006 5:25:14 PM EDT

[#22]

Patern of the build...

Looks like this..see if I am going in the right direction.

Bulgy 102 bbl. 23mm
Romy trunion(74) 23mm
Bulgy bolt & carrier 5.56 cal
5.56 bullet guide? (is this needed)
AK 74 style reciever
Bulgy side folder

Modified 74 mags..
Would Bulgy 223 mags work, or are they set up for the 47 size trunion.

Guide me masters

Posted: 1/25/2006 6:49:59 PM EDT

[#23]

You will have the least amount of headaches if you use a barrel/trunion/bolt from same country of origin. The 5.56 bulgy mags are set up for the AKM pattern and use the same feedramp as a 7.62 AK.

Posted: 1/25/2006 6:58:39 PM EDT

[#24]

Another thing about mags. If you look at a 5.56 bulgarian mag follower and any other 5.45 mag follower you will see that they are identical. The difference is the 5.56 bulgy mag is dimensionally thinner on the interior, at the top of the mag. This slight difference allows the follower to ride higher and properly feed the 5.56 round. Robinson arms achieves the same affect by modifying the follower so that it is taller than a std follower and thus sits higher in the mag.

Posted: 1/25/2006 8:02:12 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Fat_McNasty

What kind of accuracy are you getting.

Any Pics

...

ARe the .223 mags and the 74 mags the same dimensions except the angle?

Thanks everyone..

I haven't shot any groups with it yet. Its got maby 3 mags ran through. Its been very busy at the shop and haven't had a range trip in a while. Ill see if I can get a couple of shots of it this weekend.. Any thing you want detailed??

Posted: 1/27/2006 3:24:28 PM EDT

[#26]

Fat_McNasty

A detailed pic of the reciever, and trunion area would be great.

Also some of the modifications to your mags.

Other than that just a couple of the whole gun, so I can lust while I build mine.

Keller

I would like to be as close to a Russian as I can get.

They use a different mag than the Bulgys...correct. ( they look more like the Polish synthetics..I believe)

If the Russians use the 74 style trunion...I wouldn't be able to use the Bulgy mags..as they use the AKM pattern

Any other tips anyone can provide will help

Thanks all

Posted: 1/29/2006 12:24:19 PM EDT

[#27]

Any one got any pics....

HInt HInt Fat_Mcnasty...

Posted: 2/3/2006 4:40:14 PM EDT

[#28]

Fat_McNasty

Did you get a chance top snap some pics

Posted: 2/4/2006 11:49:34 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Its important to remember that 5.56 are either based on the AKM or AK74.
Russian = 74 pattern
China = AKM pattern
Bulgaria = AKM Pattern
Romanian = 74 pattern but bastardization of parts.
The important thing for any 5.56 build is to determine which pattern you want to build.

Would a Bulgarian 5.56 bolt work in a Norinco Type 84 (assuming it headspaced OK) then? I've got a Type 84 barrel/trunnion assembly that I'd like to eventually build into a complete rifle.

Posted: 2/7/2006 10:17:23 AM EDT

[#30]

Any one else want to chime in with some info...

I can use everything anyone has heard....and also what you realy know.

Thanks

Posted: 2/18/2006 3:17:20 PM EDT

[#31]

Fat_McNasty

Did you get a chance top snap some pics

Or anyone else have any?

Posted: 2/19/2006 12:21:04 PM EDT

[#32]

ok...i am going to chime in
here is what i have
bulgy 223 krink kit from kvar...barrel is 23mm
bolt and bolt carrier from kit is 47(7.62) style
got a bulgy 47(7.62) front trunnion removed the 7.62 bullet guide and installed a 5.56 guide
there are 2 things that need to be addressed
1. magwell
2. lugs for bolt to run on

i am going to modify the trunnion for both deals so i can use any 223 mags and any bulgy 223 bolt
the lugs on ea side of the 223 bolt are shaped diff than a 7.62 bolt...diff are that the ramps are more drastic on the 223 bolt

on the magwell it is kinda like what i did on the saiga 223 conversion....the mag needs to go up in the magwell alittle further(meaning height wise) in the front and the opening in the magwell(on the trunion)is bigger to accept the 7.62 mag....so i will just weld it up a bit and open it to shape(width) for the 223 mags

my saiga 223 is russian...the bolt, carrier and trunion are 74 style
someone already posted the styles of 223's out there
the are either 47 style or they are 74 style....first thing to determine is what style 223 u have
IMO i would think that the 74 style 223 is easier to work with as the magwell opening in the trunion would be close and the bolt lugs would be close

i will try to take some pics of the stuff i mention and point out what is what!
lawdog u can catch me on msn messenger under my email addy if u run into any probs and maybe i can [email protected]

Posted: 2/19/2006 12:42:20 PM EDT

[#33]

Thanks for the reply Getit...keep me posted on progress.

I have a 102 barrell assembly...Bulgy
carrier and bolt...Bulgy
Romy 74 trunion..I filed the front of the bolt about 1/16 at an angle..on the left lug, I can put it in reciever, and give it a brisk tap forward, and it will shut against the trunion...a little rap back and it frees right up.

Romy trunion already had 74 bullet guide in it..filed the front center hump at a little more angle.

Now I just have to get another reciever(5.45) and rivet it all together.

I wanted one based on a 74..so it would be closer to Russian I will use modified 74 mags.

The only difference I could see in the Romy trunion was the 74 type had a narrower lip in the top that will not allow a 47 mag to latch in all the way.

Thanks