So after watching SOTAR's video on his homemade AR lube and seeing it's consistently to CherryBalmz...it got me wanting to try it. Its basically just Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil, either 0W-40 for cold environments or 5W-30 for folks that don't live in the artic, and Mobil 1 Synthetic grease. Many of us can agree that Mobil 1 makes the best synthetic motor oil.

The thing is you can mix it to your own consistency. There is no science behind ratio of oil to grease....you can play around with it till you get the consistency you want.

My thoughts are the grease is going to be the weak link. Looking at Mobil 1 they show the max temp to be 302F. I thought that was a little on the low side so started looking into other synthetic lithium-based greases. Royal Purple Ultra Performance Grease is rated for up to 525F.

Do you think Mobil 1 is putting a higher safety factor in there? Anyone tried this recipe with both?

I've used CAT jackhammer grease with triflow mixed. Haven't had any issues and minimal wear on my M1A and 1911. Stays put and easy to clean off given what it is. A thin coat with my ARs I've tried it on seems to work good as well.

So to answer your question, give what you mentioned a try and see if you like it.

I've also blatantly stolen Chad's recipe, but just used what I had on-hand, which was a mix of Slip ewl30 and Slip ewg. Came out pretty well...It stays put like a grease, but has the lubricity of an oil. Certainly seems to keep AR bcgs wet for longer, with the carrier rails being the only area that run dry quickly (thats just the nature of shooting it suppressed/I dont think anything can really be done about that).

Also, Motul makes the best motor oil

Do a couple mag dumps and check your BCG with a digital thermometer. I doubt it would be over 300F.

But I’ve been wrong before...

Best lube I have found. Designed to withstand High temp and is loaded with moly lubricant.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/red-80312

@Foxtrot08 explained the poor science behind this thick mix. He said grease can start having the opposite effect that you want.

As personal experience, I experimented with grease when I started shooting suppressed. I was hoping I’d get less oil in my face while having good lubrication. I found that grease created more friction when it gets loaded with powder residue. I went back to motor oil and only put it on the minimum of surfaces with better results. Perhaps turning my AR into the Exxon Valdez like SOTAR does with his mix would prevent the extra friction effect since there’s more volume of lube to disperse the carbon, but then I’d get even more oil in my face.

I’ll also say that I watch SOTAR’s videos and have learned a lot about tolerances, but his lubrication video seemed like an April fool’s joke.

Best advice from someone that sells millions of gallons of oils and millions of pounds of grease a year, with in house technical staff, support from the largest producers of oil and grease in the world:

Don’t.

Huh?

I cover it in this thread:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/School-of-American-Rifle-AR-Lube-and-AR-Lubrication/5-2396272/?page=1



I get you’re trying to sound technical with what you’re doing.  But you’re already starting off On the wrong foot.  Starting off with saying Mobil one is the best synthetic oil without any reasoning is foolish in itself.  

Adding in going with a lithium grease is literally the exact opposite of where you should be looking.

Following bad advice on YouTube is foolish.


To quote myself:


The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action.  Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.  

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load.  Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.


Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product.  Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.  

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant.  You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination.  But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water.  So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water.  This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water.  Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1.  So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.


I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best.  And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

So i read the majority of your other post. I’ve got two lubes that I use regularly. Valvoline full synthetic 5w-30 (just because it was the closest thing on the shelf) and BF CLP for its corrosion protection properties.

I use some other copper removers and Gunscrubber for cleaning.

Anyways am I really doing a disservice by using that CLP as a lube? It seems to dry up. Im guessing its either migrating or supposed to dry and leave PTFE coating the parts. You seem to know more than I when it comes to lubricants.

CLP is not  long term storage lubricant.   Nor is it a long term lubricant, as it's a cleaner.


When you have a cleaner, that means you're normally going to have a solvent in it.  As the solvents evaporate, it's going to take some of the base oil with it.  They're both hydrocarbons, there's chemistry there that is beyond me to explain online, but the solvents will rob the heavier product of bonds, making the heavier product a lighter product.  Which then won't be as protectant as it can be.  

So once the heavier base oil is damaged, you're left with the barrier lubricants - PTFE, Moly, whatever solid additives they put into the oil as an anti-wear agent.   But, it will be 'dry'.


So are you doing anything a disservice? Probably not.  

Is CLP the best lubricant?  Nope.  

Is it terrible? Also nope.

It fits a niche, of a cleaner and lubricant.   Instead of having two products, it's a one-size-fits-most.  Use it accordingly.

I'm personally a big fan of a cleaner, then a lubricant.   But I get only wanting one product to keep life simple.

I mixed 1 quart each of Mobil synthetic motor oil and transmission fluid.  To thicken that I added some synthetic grease designed for high temperature/pressure applications until I achieved the viscosity I wanted.  So for around $30 I have about 6 ounces over a half gallon of lubricant that is designed to operate at high temperatures and pressures.  

So far, it has worked great on AR15's in 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel, 308 gas guns, bolt guns, Glocks, and 1911's.  The ability to control viscosity with the synthetic grease made a huge difference.

something to note is that CLP is a specification, not a particular product. The military puts out the spec and various manufacturers make products that meet the spec (current version is MIL-PRF-63460F) and get letter saying that their product is approved for use. Breakfree, Radcolube, G96 are probably the most well known of the mil-spec CLPs

After many years of using SLIP2000 EWL, I've switched to Radcolube CLP

https://www.radcoind.com/fluid/radcolube-clp/

Yep. Completely understand that. I used breakfree clp, hoppes and now Lucas.

I was referring to the basic understanding of the mil spec and what it is from the 38,000ft view.

I try not to get super product specific when a category of products in that range are assumably governed by a spec.

Use a product designed to do what you are doing.

Break Free makes CLP, LP, Collector, and various cleaners.

LP lubes...Collector is a thick rust preventor.  


Use the right tool.

tractor supply cornhead grease.  $5 a quart.  

At rest it is a solid phase and doesn’t run.   Agitate it and it goes to a liquid phase.

Cheap enough to shoot, get dirty, wipe off, clean thoroughly and put some more on.  


The one I have, Super S is a lithium thickened product though.  There are other out there though, polyurea based.

I’m hooked on Lucas Extreme Duty gun lube(the blue one).
Ounce  for ounce it’s more expensive than motor oil, but will $5-$10 per year break the bank?

But I also considered a grease/oil mix at one time. Just never got to it

Good stuff

I really don't want this to turn into another "what lube do you use" thread. I've got a 5 page thread going for that already and it's been productive.

I tinker and actually try and test different lubes / greases. This was more about what grease you use to mix your own. Obviously not many folks have caught on to that yet. I've taken a liking to SOTAR's vids as he seems like one of the most educated and experienced in the AR world. His recipe is Mobil 1 synthetic grease and Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. The drop point on the grease was a little on the low side I thought.

I went ahead and mixed some up (two different consistencies...one more oily than the other). I've got two AR's lubed up with it and will hit the range soon. Really nice consistency so far.

I get you're trying to sound technical....wait, did you quote yourself?

Neat. Now I feel as though I need to try this.
I already have both ingredients

Yes. I quoted myself.


Using a lithium based grease is really just starting off wrong.  Then trying to garage mix oil and grease isn’t a good idea.


If you want to do this, just buy a semi fluid grease.

And talking about grease dropping point in use of an AR... after you mix it with oil... makes no sense at all.

Exactly what I was thinking when I read the thread title.  Grease manufacturers use hundred million dollar labs and teams of nerds and all sorts of equipment to do long and repetitive tests.  They know the exact list of ingredients in their greases and oils.

Some garage goober just mixing together one off the shelf oil and an off the shelf grease and a little bit of sweaty jockstrap is not going to make anything remotely close to "best".  Buy a product designed for your intended use case.

For example, I use vactra No. 2 way oil in my mill.  It is oil that is designed to be a little sticky so it clings to vertical surfaces better instead of running down them.  Data sheet says pour point is -18C.

That property is called thixotropic.   Military LSA has it too.

Disturb it and it is an oil.  Leave it alone and it becomes gel/grease like.

Is the PTFE still lubricating even if the surface looks dry? That’s another one I’ve heard. That without the carrier oil it won’t do anythibg for you

Assuming it doesn't wash away, yes.

Solid barrier lubricants, in theory, stick around after the oil and soap go away.  PTFE,  Moly, Ceramic, Graphite all work this way in their respective applications.

The problem with the solid barrier lubricants is the quality of the material. PTFE varies in the physical size.  Small the particle, better the protection, but more expensive it is.  Larger, cheaper, less protection.

PTFE hasn't been allowed by the CLP spec since the 90s

Breakfree had it until 2017-2018.

Birchwood Casey gun oil still has it. A number of others.

But from what I see it looks like the mil specs “officially” changed about 10 years ago due to concern about the manufacturing process of PTFE.



Either way. PTFE is not a make or break. I’m not a strong believer in it, in a firearm application. I don’t think it particularly helps or hurts anything.

Well that kind of blows. Especially since it does dry out after a few days it seems like. Thank you for the heads up though!

Superlube.

For those looking for an answer to the OP question any synthetic grease that is non lithium based will work just fine. I too have taken a liking to SOTAR's videos and just saw the video on his gun lube. It got me thinking about what I have been using to lube my firearms. For the last few years I have been using Euro spec synthetic motor oil and with good results. Just one thing I dont like is that the oil will run out of the upper and onto the outside of the lower when in my gun safe. So the grease and motor oil mix to thicken things up seems like a logical solution. Being an auto mechanic by trade I had the oil and grease needed to make some AR sauce. I have yet to try it out  but having a new red dot to sight in and regularly hunting rabbits I am sure I will have the chance soon. I have used many gun oils over the years CLP, Rem oil,  Gun Slick, Fog Lube, ALG Go Juice and motor oil. Go Juice and motor oil have been my go to for the past few years. If the grease and motor oil dont work out I will report back and be switching to ALG 0000 Very Thin Grease.

I've wondered about that, as it sounds like a bandwagon thing.  I can't imagine there's a big difference between Mobil 1 and any other quality synthetic motor oil.

Best way I can put it is this:

Mobil 1 is a quality bar in the industry.  If you want to compete, you have to at least be at the same quality level as the bar in the industry.  

The other problem, is Mobil 1 has such an ingrained market share they can’t suddenly change nor do they want to.  

Why would Mobil want to spend millions, if not billions, developing a new formula? They would have to bump the quality of base oil they use.  Which means either more PAOs - more expensive.  Or develop better group 3 base oils - also expensive.  Then test new additives. Then market these changes - expensive.  For already, on the consumer market, an inexpensive product?

Other newer products are better because they don’t spend millions a year marketing it.  They have better base oils. Newer additive packages, etc.  


It’s not a bad product, so don’t take what I’m saying as it’s bad.  The vast majority of full synthetics out there are good to very good.  What I’m saying is: To keep the price down, they can’t change it, but everyone else can meet or exceed it.

I use LubriPlate which is a white grease that comes in a super sized toothpaste tube. No mixing necessary. I think we as a community over think this stuff. A small amount on the bolt lugs and contact points goes a long ways. Lightweight 100% synthetic oil for all other lube applications.

I use Breakfree CLP sometimes, Hoppes #9 sometimes and Shooter's Choice sometimes for routine bore cleaning. I consider Shooter's Choice the best of the three, but I buy in bulk (1 gallon jugs) when things are on sale and all of these work.

I use Sweet's 7.62 copper solvent once in a blue moon to thoroughly strip a barrel of copper fouling. Occasionally I'll use J-B Non-Embedding bore compound to accomplish the same thing.

Brake cleaner outdoors to strip grunge followed with compressed air.  

I'm a believe in trusting the companies in the trade to create a useful and safe product that won't harm me or my firearms. My chemistry skills are none existent which means potentially harmful.

That lube seems ok.. does he clean the excess before running the gun or just let it blow out on it's own...?

Don't use grease in an AR.  It's not needed and won't make it last longer.  It might make it start malfunctioning since the AR wasn't designed to use grease.  If you actually shoot enough to wear out an AR15, you will have gone through several barrels by the time you wear it out.   If you haven't replaced a barrel on your most used AR yet, you aren't really shooting that much (which is actually the majority of gun owners).

Mobil 1 the best synthetic oil?  Did marketing wank lead you to that conclusion?

Penzoil platinum would like a word with you....

They may have different quality base oil and different additive packages.

You can take a sample of your used oil after you change it and send it to a lab for testing. You will get a report outlining various results of said testing.

Try different brands and find out which brand works the best for your engine and driving habits and outside factors like if you live in an extremely dusty area and neglect your air filter lol.

I retired from Mobil/ExxonMobil after 38.5 years....so I am very, very biased

In 1995 I was at our Paulsboro Refinery for a meeting and we had a guided tour thru the R&D lab where the oil was tested 24/365 on a BMW car.  It was on a test stand, driven, thru different loads on the engine and we observed the engine after it was disassembled, 1 million miles, and was within factory specs.  That is what sold me, even though I had been using it a long time before this.

Working with refienry machinery all of my career, we worked very close with our corporate lubrication engineers and had access to some very good information on test that were done with Mobil1 and IMO, Mobil was the leader when it came to lubrication....rumor has it that Exxon bought Mobil in 1999 for the lubrication technology and lubrication distribution network, there is big money in lube oils....

Are there other oils that are good, absolutely, as good as Mobil1, I dont think so....

For a number of years I only used Breakfree CLP and a little bit of Mobil 1 grease. I really loved that combo but I wasn't too sure it's safe. I eventually switched to Froglube and after a year of that went back to breakfree clp but this time used TW25b which is supposedly safer alternative and a great grease. Have been doing that combo for about the last 6 years and it has been working great.

I don't particularly like the idea of burnt motor oil. I do know used motor oil has a lot of carcinogens by products because they would put in some sort of cleaning agent or longevity agent into the mix. It's supposed to clean the engine a little. So once you burn up that oil, it's not very safe to touch it. I feel that while guns would use very little of it, having some of it in a barrel, even a little drop, is enough to create a puff of smoke and you inhale that at the range. Once or twice might be okay but years of exposure probably going to have a negative effect on your overall health.

The engineers get paid well enough to make the fine products we choose to use.

I like Lubriplate. Especially the 350-aw lube. It works well enough for my Colt AR and is awesome on my semi auto pistols. I bought a gallon of it, so I'm covered well into the afterlife.

I was in Autozone this week looking for Mobil1 oil and ATF to make the 50/50 mixture and on the shelf was a small bottle of Lucas Assembly oil/grease for putting engines together....got to thinking, this may just be a good AR lube

Oh Really ?
Should stop by CherryBalmz web site, and read their lubrication articles.

Looks like that thread was lost in the great archive purge. That sucks...there was lots of good info there

I mix SuperLube with Hexagonal Boron Nitride (HBN) and Tungsten Disuldie (WS2) and then add just a little peppermint extract for hyrophobic, anti-corrosion, and smell properties. When the barrel or other parts get really hot, the Superlube will obviously melt/evaporate off (including peppermint). However, the HBN and WS2 literally stay on and it leaves an extremely lubricious film (it's visibly black). The reason this happens is because the melting point for both is easily over 1000° F. So while the lube will melt or evaporate, the other stuff stays on.

HBN is called "white graphite" for it's coefficient of friction properties compared to graphite and its white color. It is used for coating bullets and casings in the firearm industry. WS2 is the most lubricious material on the planet and has a black color. It will stain anything as a micron powder, but mixing it will keep that from happening. Mixing both HBN and WS2 will leave a dark dark grey or gunmetal black color. Both have extremely high heat resistance, higher than any gun barrel will ever get.

I like their stuff but its dollars on the once...

Mobil 1 (and its competitors) has dozens of different synthetic formulations for automotive, diesel and industrial engines.  We cannot and should not consider "Mobil 1" as some monolithic product.  It is not.  These different formulations are not the same and should not be lumped together, even within the same brand.

FWIW,  I sought out a synthetic motor oil for use in my AR that has an additive package compatible with our direct-impingement, dirty running high carbon ARs.  Goof diesel engine oils for direct injection, high pressure, high temperature turbo diesels.  That turned out to be Shell Rotella T6 synthetic 0w40 checks the box.  I use it as general lube for semi-auto ARs and other semi-auto long guns and pistols.

One quart of T6 (expensive as a motor oil) is very cheap compared to boutique firearms lubes, and will probably last a lifetime.

I use a tiny bit mil spec grease (or marine-grade axle grease in a pinch) on trigger engagement points.

I typically use a very light coating of mobile synthetic bearing grease or RIG as a lubricant for bolts and the like. No need to mix them with anything just apply less. Think a film of grease rather then a pasted on coating. For a protectant for storage I use a light coat of RIG. Tends to last longer then oils as lubrication and doesn’t burn off like some of the lighter oils noir does it run off setting. I’ve never used motor oil though I know lots of folks do and are happy with it.

Breakfree Lp  ( I think they recently renamed it Full Synthethic).
It's a hair thicker than their CLP and was designed for stainless and full auto weapons.

Lucas Red and Tacky works real well, too.