Digging through my stash and came across 3 cans of LSA    1995 dated.  I used it on a FAL.  Seemed to do fine. It’s slickery.  Anyone else use it. I hate the throw it away. But if it’s considered junk I will.  Thanks WarDawg

Na I’d run it. Definitely wouldn’t throw it away.

Not junk. Has its uses. I'd use it up.

LSA is good stuff. Better than most in reality

I used LSA for a little while and really liked it. Mine came in the glue like bottle with the twist cap. You have to make sure you shake it to the point it comes out thick. It's an original Vietnam issued lubricant. They would issue a can of LSA and some solvent and the original problem with jammed M16s went away.

I say use it.

I use it on Mk 19s- works great.

iirc that's LSA-T? The white grease stuff.

Slicker than snot, yeah. Turns green and rusts in 2 weeks. The stuff I'm thinking of is a lubricant and lubricant ONLY.

The old LSA liquid is just fine. Rare for my day ('13-'17) though.

I've used LSA-T almost exclusively for a long time and have never experienced it turning green and rusting.

Our Marks always did that. Until I convinced the CWO to authorize CLP for cleaning/storage, then no more issues.

I used the stuff in one of my 1911s (privately owned) and busted it down 2 weeks later to find it had turned green as well.

Maybe the batch we got was bad during that time. I'm guessing that the unit got a pallet of it at some point and that was it. I had the same results from fresh bottles and ones that Chesty probably broke the seal on.

If you don't want or use it I'll take it and pay shipping.

I used it on a fal the other day. It did fine.  Wet and slick. Cheers Wardawg

I've used LSA for over 50 years.  If it's turning green, never saw this color change.  The most ammo I ever fired in one night was over 2000 rds. without any problems.  If it worked that well, that night, I never saw a reason to switch.  My son in law said his unit in Afghanistan had problems keeping their MK 19s running using CLP.  I shipped him 4 quart cans of LSA to try and the problems disappeared.  SARCO still has LSA for sale.  If you've never used it, give it a try.

I was talking about the white grease. 99% it was LSA-T.

We were told it's the only approved lube for the marks. How true that is, no idea, never cared enough to verify/disprove. Something about the stresses it sees are too great for an oil.

You guys aren't the only ones to preach the miracles of LSA, eventually I might try it, but have gallons of CLP and usually an open bottle of motor oil.

Got some of that here. Works great.
https://www.madcityoutdoor.com/products/g-i-lsa-weapons-oil

I only saw LSA-T in a semi fluid tube that you shook up, but it was not a grease like material. The TM use to read it was the only authorized lube for the Mk19 due to the then current run of CLP ruining the nylon in the Mk19.

I found that a 50/50 mix of LSA and CLP works very well on most guns.  

I don't think LSA ever dries up.

Since this thread was bumped and I found the tube the other day...

This is what was authorized for our mk-19s. Eventually when I ran the armory I got CLP approved for the C and P uses. Stopped having rust problems. Also note, I was in tracks, so salt water was very real.

Attached File


The nomenclature is a bit different than I remember. Oh well. I used it on some small arms (1911, g19, AR, m590), and as mentioned, it would turn green and fail. I kind of remember it separating the oil from the solids. It definitely lubes the weapons well, but must be replaced frequently.

ETA: thinking more, I want to say we called this LSA as Lubricant Semifluid Application, not Lubricant Small Arms, which (again, I'm too young to be issued it) is what the thread is actually about.

Attached File


While I'm at it... try some of this stuff if you can find it cheap. Decent generic powder solvent. Definitely cleans the shit out a rifle compared to CLP.

At one point I read some publications on it. IIRC, originally developed for big bores, includes a mild copper solvent. It doesn't work wonders soaking a BCG in it, but for example the other day I wiped off a BCG and had patched a barrel clean with CLP. Then wiped it off and patched with the RBC... rag was dirty. So it certainly removes more carbon/powder. It won't replace a proper copper solvent. I used it to clean the barrel extension, and it took much less effort to swab it clean.

I'm not sure why we never actually used the stuff. Probably because marines are too stupid to clean with one product, and lube with another...

Don't fool yourself we aren't stupid brother.  When I was in we had to use what was issued or it was our ass and it was CLP in the 90's period unless we were lucky enough to be around a unit who had a parts cleaning tank then we could scrub weapons down in that and then lube up with CLP.  Edited spelling.

I have found your problem.

That is not LSA.

LSA, or more properly, Lubricant, Semi-Fluid (Automatic Weapons), is MIL-L-46000, NATO Code O-158.

Your Arms Room gave the wrong sh...stuff.  MIL-L-46150 has no requirement to be a corrosion preventative.

We used it on our M14's in the Army.  LSA on mine for almost 4 years.  Never saw any green or rust.

Yeah, we had to use what was issued too. Where else would the RBC come from, if it wasn't issued to the unit? Brass probably figured (generally, correctly), that the troops are too dumb to use it, so it was not actually distributed. FFS I had maybe 20 marines between PFC and SSGT, that could clean a rifle worth a fuck, despite being given specific instructions, in a very large company. Maybe it got phased out with LSA, since we have *C*-L-P now.


I can absolutely accept it's not the right stuff, at least for small arms. Makes sense for use on the Marks, being high load capacity. It is really slick, and works fine for use on your small arms today. Best to clean them before you turn in though. I should try it suppressed, since axle grease locks up my ARs when all the excess fouling hits it, turns to glue. Really though I don't see why any other grease type lube would function dramatically different in that scenario.

Any of you ever used what I posted in the tube? Maybe we got a bad pallet of it. Best I recall they kept a pallet at supply and we brought it up to the armory by the case, and the line crews would also go get a case for the company and put a tube on each vic.

Y'all ever get your hands on the RBC? I like the stuff.

Like I said, I'm too young for proper LSA (13-17). Not sure when it was completely phased out, but even some of our younger staff hadn't used it. I heard of it from my uncle (tanks 89-93, IIRC), but he also had CLP afaik. That might have been some COTS product though? Maybe his unit got it from some army guys during shield/storm because the marines ran out? No idea. Anything more would just be extreme speculation (already at minor )

Didn’t realize this was an old thread- never mind!

RBC is still in the inventory, and is in the pubs for for cleaning:

"RBC may be used to remove carbon within the bore.", page 0016 00-1 of TM 9-1005-319-10 (M16/M4).

"Remove dirt and corrosion from other parts using wiping rag, (item 7, WP 0040 00) dampened with CLP (item 1, WP 0040 00) or RBC (item 3, WP 0040 00)," page 0022 00-10 of TM 9-1005-313-10 (M240).

I am not going to quote all of them.  I'll leave then to you, if so inclined.

And, since LSA is not a cleaner, when you use LSA you have to use a different product for cleaning, aka, RBC or CLP.

Did anyone actually use it when active in more recent times, or was it phased out with CLP?

I see the cans I have are from early '11, but nobody in my era knew what it was outside reading the label. Anyone know of a distinct transition/switch from LSA to CLP?

The brass, in all their genius, had the crewmen scrubbing marks with the grease to clean it. I distinctly remember being told we can only use that grease on the mk-19. Naturally, this didn't work very well, and like I said, eventually when I ran the armory, got clp approved for cleaning and wipe down, the grease still being the only approved lube. Suddenly they stopped having rust problems... amazing (ETA: they also took considerably less time to actually clean the weapons). It wasn't until very near the end of my tour in the armory that I found the RBC.

I don't mean I got pubs/TM/FM or maradmin changed, but permission on the unit level from the WO (burn in hell you bastard).

RBC has never been phased out, or replace whole scale by CLP.  RBC remains in the manuals for all cleaning chores in all weapon systems, whose manuals I have looked at since responding to this thread.

In fact, I just hauled out my copy of the Mk19 manual (yes, it is up-to-date) and RBC is the only authorized cleaning solvent.  It specifically states not to use CLP anywhere on the Mark 19 (Operation Under Usual Conditions-After Firing, Pg 0011-1).   And, I also found out that LSAT (MIL-L-46150) is an authorized lubricant, but it looks like molybdenum disulfate grease (MIL-G-21164) is preferred.

As to WO and NCOs giving "permission", most probably haven't read the manual in years, if at all, and aren't giving you the straight word, but going off memory and what they were told once long ago (which is fallible, like when I said LSAT was not to be used).

If I can offer some advise to any young troopers or Marines out there, READ THE DAMN MANUAL!

It might make your life easier and you maybe can educate your boss on the proper way to do things.  If you can hold up a manual and point to a paragraph that says "do this" or "don't use that", then he will have to agree with you, or you will have confirmation they are an idiot.

________________________

For the M16, CLP became the primary cleaner/lubricant when it was first adopted circa 1979-80.  RBC remains an authorized cleaner (partly because it is a better cleaner), and LSA was phased out.  However, I sure a few WO and Master Sergeants resisted the change.

Completely agree, RTFM. Usually the guys who wrote the manual know what they're doing. The manuals were generally kept under lock and key for inventory purposes, and god forbid a young marine wanted to see a copy... see below.

What branch and years were/are you in? You make too much sense to have been a Marine SNCO. I'm guessing army.

The manual doesn't mean shit in tracks. They do what they want, and if you don't have two or more rockers, you can get fucked. Particularly if you're a crewman (1833). You can't possibly know anything, even with the manual in hand, if you're not a SNCO. You're double fucked if you try to use logic and facts. It's a life of hatred, self loathing, and continued hazing despite the extremely low readiness due to the easily remedied lack of proper training and PMCS on aging vehicles and weapons. Yet more bullshit time wasting activities is the answer. Whatever, not my problem any more. Hasn't been for quite a few years.

I've never seen the moly grease, but I bet it's a dark color. And you know what that means? The weapon is dirty. Because fuck you, that's why. I would put money on it that if the grease is black/dark (as all moly grease I've seen), that's precisely why they never used it, because the weapon will look dirty. And perception is reality. But a white grease, that's easy.

Yeah, I'm pretty jaded. I've seen the failures caused by the poor leadership and backwards mentalities. This isn't the place to get further into it though.

I appreciate the technical conversation.

Holy shit, I had almost forgotten. Little PFC Fritztkatt once got his ass REAMED out hard core, for playing on his phone one day, while we were supposed to be cleaning .50s. I was downloading the -10 manual... because nobody had ever actually seen one, and we were all fresh mechanics, besides our corporal, another mech, who never got to learn the weapon himself. Finally he let up and asked me what I was doing. I ended up teaching him and everyone else how to dis/assemble the weapon. He apologized and appreciated the initiative (see; perception is reality). I like that guy, he later pinned me CPL while he was a sergeant. Hopefully he's doing well.

If I was a crewman I'd have never been asked what I was doing, and we'd have just failed as a unit to play fuckfuck games for the dirty weapons.

I currently work with Marines and retired Marines (SNCO) in the maintenance field, and know of the mindset of which you speak.  It seems to be a culture thing, as I have heard similar stories from many a Marine.  I preferred to work with Sergeants (E-5) in my younger days, as the concrete hasn't quite set.  Now days, I am older than most Master Sergeants, so if I have to tell they are mistaken, the pill is easier for them to swallow.

I was in the Army, and there the TM trumps everything (at least in all of the units I was in), and that was ingrained from day one of AIT (Advanced Individual Training).  "Get the manual, read the manual, know the manual, but don't memorize it, it might change next week."

And yes, MIL-G-21164 is just Aeroshell 33MS (or Aeroshell 64), and dark gray.

Neat, I'd enjoy a conversation on maintenance if you'd like to PM. Don't want an OPSEC breach from an open net.

Called that on the Army, eh? I've made that same call a few times in my years. "You make too much sense to be a Marine". As they say, the Army and Navy are the only two branches of the military. The Airforce is a corporation, and the Corps is a cult. One of my brothers hit me with the same spiel a while ago on the TM trumps everything. Well, FM I guess, as he was a FO in the army. So it's not just you buddy.

I talked to that (then) Cpl yesterday. He's doing well. Should be picking up Gunny in a year or two, and almost done his tour of the drill field. I bet he's going to kick ass back in the fleet running a maintenance platoon. I'm glad he stayed in, a gift to the Corps, a blessing to tracks, might end up being the only reason some guys make it home one day.

Y'all ever use Royco 49? I believe it's a moly grease. At one point we, as a Bn, got in 4gal of it. Supposed to have some highly specific use for the torsion bars with like really good washout properties or something since the torsion bars can't be lubed without disassembly and it might be years of salt water before they need replaced. I looked it up one day. I doubt it ever got issued out, it's probably sitting in the same box it was 4 years ago and they're still using 15-40 or whatever generic grease is on hand for them.

I used to use LSA but the last bottles I had turned rancid. My search for a replacement led me to Super Lube oil. It's a ISO 100 to 150 oil which is thick for an oil, almost semifluid like LSA. A 4-oz bottle is $4.50 so you might want to check on it if you like LSA (or LSAT), but don't want to have to worry about it going rancid or going through the hassle of finding some.


Manufacturer website.

IIRC, LSA-T is 75% LSA and 25% Teflon.