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Posted: 8/3/2003 2:51:25 PM EDT
[#1]
I just took my AR shooting for the first time today and so far I have spend 3 hours on it and am still not happy with it. LOL Boy after 60 rounds did this thing get dirty. I'm really questioning the Federal Ball ammunition that I shot today.
Typically when I take my AK out, shooting russian ammo. I can get that sucker clean in like 15 minutes. Guess it's time to buy up lots of ammo and try out the different types in the ar. ha ha ha (boy is the wife not going to like that [:D]) Kev |
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Posted: 8/3/2003 3:50:39 PM EDT
[#2]
When I first started shooting my AR it took me about 2.5 hrs. to thoroughly clean it. Now it takes around an hour. Seems like every time I clean, it takes just a little less time. Guess it's just like everything else, the more you do it, the faster you get.
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Posted: 8/3/2003 4:10:39 PM EDT
[#3]
I have 5 so I've taken to only cleaning them after about 2 thousand rounds. That equates to about every 4th time I go shooting.
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Posted: 8/3/2003 6:11:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: I just took my AR shooting for the first time today and so far I have spend 3 hours on it and am still not happy with it. LOL Boy after 60 rounds did this thing get dirty. I'm really questioning the Federal Ball ammunition that I shot today. Put 200 more rounds through it to smooth out the bore, buy an Otis cleaning kit, and you'll cut that down to about an hour. |
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Posted: 8/4/2003 6:56:06 PM EDT
[#5]
What the hell are you guys doing? Taking the whole gun apart???
No wonder people think these guns are finicky, with you guys wasting this much time on them. 15 minutes. If you are taking longer than that, you ain't doing it right. Follow the MANUAL. Don't expect to pull clean patches. You can pull 1,000 patches, and still get a patch that isn't white. Nature of the beast, especially if you are using CLP, as you are supposed to. Per Armalite, carbon is self limiting. Don't bother scraping the bolt and the carrier - you'll only likely do more harm. I gave up scraping carbon 10,000 rounds ago, my gun still runs like a champ. Otis makes a great cleaning kit. You can pull very tight patches. 5 or 6 and you are good to go. Stop disassembling things beyond what the manual shows. You are just likely to screw more things up. (I've seen it MANY times at the range, so don't claim it doesn't happen) This is a combat weapon. Your DI in the Army may have wanted it squeaky clean, but that is gone after the 1st shot anyway. Clean enough IS clean enough. |
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Posted: 8/4/2003 8:16:28 PM EDT
[#6]
~45min
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Posted: 8/5/2003 9:13:37 AM EDT
[#7]
15-20 minutes.
Say 6-10 patches for the bore (15-20 I'm using copper solvent which is very rare). 1 pipe cleaner and half a dozen Q-Tips. CLP only. |
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Posted: 8/5/2003 11:46:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Birchwood Casey Borescrubber aerosol cleaner really speeds up cleaning the receiver and lug areas. Be sure to put some CLP back on the areas that you clean with this solvent since it takes off ALL of the protective lubricant.
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Posted: 8/5/2003 7:22:09 PM EDT
[#9]
15 min?
Jeez I guess I am Anal as hell about cleaning my 2 ARs. I only shoot 1 at a time due to the fact(Actually the A2 20" gets no time except in the closet) The M4 get's at least a whole movie to clean. But then again I like my internals SPOTLESS. And yeah, I do clean that barrel 'till the patches come out white using GunScrubber. I always run 2 soaked patches and let the upper sit for an hour, while I clean the Bolt/carrier/c.handle SPOTLESS. Then after I work on the upper and barrel. I like 'em almost factory cleaned/lubed. As for my AK's and shotguns, I bust caps then throw them roughly into the gun closet 'till the next session[:D] |
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Posted: 8/5/2003 9:55:34 PM EDT
[#10]
I clean my AR's as soon as I get back from the range, I won't allow carbon to build up on my guns. I spend about a half hour on each of my guns.
I also oil them every time I touch the metal, or once a month which ever comes first. |
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Posted: 8/6/2003 11:10:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Doctor_Chicago, when cleaning out any recess (such as a lower receiver) with a spray type cleaner, just turn it upside down. The cleaner and all the carbon will just wash out of it instead of pooling in the bottom and depositing all the junk in there.
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Posted: 8/7/2003 12:43:57 AM EDT
[#12]
I am one of those anal retentive people that spend a couple of hours cleaning every nook and cranny. I have tried not to, but it seems that I always have to clean again a day or so later.
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Posted: 8/7/2003 1:32:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Aside from anti-gunners, cleaning guns is another one of those things I despise about the hobby. Squeaky clean is a practice I've given up on years ago.
15 to 30 minutes for an AR is all I am willing to spend. Just wipe it down and lube where necessary. After all, it is only going to get dirty again. |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 5:09:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Count me with the 15 minute crowd. You shouldn't need to spend more than 15 minutes on the average AR that just took a trip to the range. Maybe a little more if you were dragging it through mud puddles or something or if you like to run a suppressor.
I mean you can spend 2 hours cleaning it if that is what you like to do; but it won't run any better or longer than the one I spent 15 minutes cleaning. I also use nothing but CLP and occasionally a little Remington Drilube. Gun scrubber is neat for cleaning things spotless; but it also removes the protective build-up of CLP that helps keep the gun running. |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 5:11:54 AM EDT
[#15]
What fight4yourrights said.
My God, they're just guns (and combat weapons at that). 15 minutes, even less if I had some place where I could just leave my cleaning gear out (instead of having to put it back into storage cases). What the hell are you guys doing to those things anyway? Christ, you can swim underwater through the Mekong Delta with those things and come up shooting. |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 5:23:21 AM EDT
[#16]
This Slip 2000 CarbonCutter disolves the carbon better then anything you will ever see. Its not a nasty smelling product. NO scraping with it. I just let the parts soak a few min. and pull them out and wipe them clean. They also make a good CLP Lube that helps keep all the crap from sticking to the bolt carrier and in the barrel. Put some CarbonCutter on a patch and put it through the barrel and it only takes a min to break all the crude loose. They send out free samples also.
http://slip2000.com/carboncutter.html# |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 5:33:53 AM EDT
[#17]
fight4yourrights said it best. Excessive cleaning of your rifle will cause more damage than shooting it. I spend about 15-20 minutes on it. I absolutely can not imagine spending 1+ hours to clean a rifle. I inspect everything as I clean. However, about every 2000 rounds I’ll spend what amounts to an extra 15 minutes checking everything for wear/damage.
Oh yea, about pipe cleaners. You shouldn’t be putting anything in the gas tube. Doing so is more likely to cause problems. |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 10:24:12 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Oh yea, about pipe cleaners. You shouldn’t be putting anything in the gas tube. I must have missed the part about people putting them in gas tubes [rolleyes]. BTW pipe cleaners (stock number 9920-00-292-9946) are listed as a standard component for cleaning the rifle (see the -10 on page 16 [1986 printing] and on pages 115 & 129) Pipe cleaners are used for the gas key and the firing pin hole in the bolt (page 21 & page 76). |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 10:29:26 AM EDT
[#19]
BTW pipe cleaners (stock number 9920-00-292-9946) are listed as a standard component for cleaning the rifle (see the -10 on page 16 [1986 printing] and on pages 115 & 129) What document are you refering to? |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 2:02:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Oh yea, about pipe cleaners. You shouldn’t be putting anything in the gas tube. I must have missed the part about people putting them in gas tubes [rolleyes]. BTW pipe cleaners (stock number 9920-00-292-9946) are listed as a standard component for cleaning the rifle (see the -10 on page 16 [1986 printing] and on pages 115 & 129) Pipe cleaners are used for the gas key and the firing pin hole in the bolt (page 21 & page 76). I brought it up merely because some web sites and catalogs advertise pipe cleaners as useful in cleaning gas tubes. |
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Posted: 8/7/2003 6:41:46 PM EDT
[#21]
What fight4yourrights said. for cleaning more than an hour is a waiste for the weapon. If it makes you feel better then it is for you and have at it!
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Posted: 8/8/2003 1:20:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: BTW pipe cleaners (stock number 9920-00-292-9946) are listed as a standard component for cleaning the rifle (see the -10 on page 16 [1986 printing] and on pages 115 & 129) What document are you refering to? The 1986 printing of the -10 (M16A2 Operator's Manual). |
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Posted: 8/9/2003 8:07:46 AM EDT
[#23]
I use to clean the gun in the 15-20 minute simply wipedown mode. As my volume of ammo went up I thought I might spend more time cleaning it. It turned out to start taking 1-2 hours and it still wasn't totally clean. So I thought I would ask to find out how long everyone else was spending on cleaning their AR's. It looks like we have two camps and I have been in both of them over the years.
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Posted: 8/9/2003 9:18:57 AM EDT
[#24]
I dont get to shoot as much as i would like so I spend about an hour to clean and oil the gun up for storage again after I have been on a shooting binge.
I randomly pull a gun out of the cabinet once every two weeks or so and pull it apart& oil it up,Its part of my hobby! just like reloading. Shooting the gun is just part of what I enjoy.Also when you have lavished several thousand dollars into your collection you want to keep it in nice condition, you dont want to find your pride and joy covered in rust spots do you. Thats harder to clean.Thats just my opinion though. Hey...If someone wants to spend hours cleaning there collection more power to them. I dont beleive anyone just throws there gun into a closet uncleaned for weeks on end. They must be lazy or rich that they can just go out and buy another one off the cuff.I would guess most of use here are working people and not lotto winners, so lazy must be the answer!!! |
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Posted: 8/9/2003 2:14:52 PM EDT
[#25]
15 minutes is a complete clean, not a wipedown. Dissassembled per the manual. I just don't go further, like a certain friend of mine that was removing the bolt carrier key every time he cleaned the gun. I won't name names to save him the embarrassment, but this certainly explained why his rifle wasn't working 100%. |
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Posted: 8/9/2003 6:23:56 PM EDT
[#26]
I dont beleive anyone just throws there gun into a closet uncleaned for weeks on end. Believe it! I've let my AR go uncleaned from shooting for about three months this year alone. They must be lazy or rich that they can just go out and buy another one off the cuff. Alternatively, it could be that there is no need to buy another one because leaving it uncleaned after a range session does no damage (assuming you are using modern non-corrosive ammo). Another thing to keep in mind is different parameters of use... these are military tough weapons; yet mine spends about 95% of its time on a range, in a case, or in a 76 degree humidity-free closet. That is so far below the type of conditions these weapons were designed for that it seems excessive to maintain it like I was rolling down a dusty road in Iraq for days on end. |
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Posted: 8/9/2003 7:15:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: I use to clean the gun in the 15-20 minute simply wipedown mode. . 15 minutes is a complete clean, not a wipedown. Dissassembled per the manual. I just don't go further, like a certain friend of mine that was removing the bolt carrier key every time he cleaned the gun. I won't name names to save him the embarrassment, but this certainly explained why his rifle wasn't working 100%. I guess I was over simplifying - your right [hail2] |
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Posted: 8/11/2003 10:37:45 AM EDT
[#28]
I guess I spend entirely too much time on the bore then. The rest of the rifle is not that big of a deal, but I like to clean the bore to where the patches come out clean. At least, that's what every bore cleaner's intruction manual says. Even after extensive bore cleaning, patches still come out with some gunk on them and I give up.
So what constitutes a bore which is "clean enough" ? I have a non-chrome lined RRA, FWIW. What about copper buildup ? How true is it that you can damage a bore by overcleaning it (examples anyone) ? |
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Posted: 8/19/2003 2:49:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Nobody will ever get a perfectly white patch out of a fired bore unless they just spent an hour or more cleaning it.
One major reason for this is because of the GAS PORT. Running a patch past the gas port picks up some carbon and cleaning solvent from the last pass, which then dirties the patch and makes the bore look as if it's dirtier than it really is. This becomes much more apparent if the upper receiver is ever sideways or upside down at any point during cleaning. This is not a good excuse to spray various fluids and liquids down the gas tube, or to force pipe cleaners into it either. |
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Posted: 8/22/2003 12:32:15 PM EDT
[#30]
per -10
about 15-25 minutes sometimes i'm lazy joe |
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Posted: 8/22/2003 9:31:11 PM EDT
[#31]
20 minutes to a half hour,and because I used to own a colt way back when I can clean my bushy without seperating the upper from the lower,4 passes with the bore snake pipe clean the firing pin tract and the carrier vent holes the upper wipes right out like wa alredy mentioned if I was carrying it 10 days on patrol at a time in the desert or jungle maybe it would need a little more intense maintanence but half hour tops.
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Posted: 8/22/2003 10:42:46 PM EDT
[#32]
About 15 minutes. If I really get her filthy (mud or ??? all over it) add another 15 minutes to scrub the outside (instead of a simple wipe down) and it comes out clean.
I put the barrel in a Black & Decker workmate with a rag to protect the wood jaws from the barrel, the barrel tipped down and a waste basket placed so the patches and wet slop falls into the basket. I use a bore guide and get to work with either Butches Bore Shine or MPro-7 to clean the bore and bolt. I use Sinclair brushes and precut patches to save time. Lightly oil the bore when done with CLP and light lube the bolt, carrier with CLP. Oh, don't forget to wipe out that chamber! If the bore seems real dirty, run a loose wet patch down it and let it set for 10-20 minutes, then dry patch it out. I use this procedure for the scoped varmint AR15 and the carbine. |
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Posted: 8/23/2003 4:01:16 AM EDT
[#33]
After reading all of the replies on cleaning time , I do not think that any one is wrong. For me it depends on how much I have just shot and just how dirty the rifle is. I believe that I can effectivley clean the rifle in 30 minutes or so.
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Posted: 8/23/2003 5:23:46 AM EDT
[#34]
You're supposed to clean them? [shock]
I learn sumpthin new here everyday [stick] I usually just take the Hesse out for a few hundred rounds[heavy], then throw her back in the cabinet.[banana] 556mm |
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Posted: 9/12/2003 5:59:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Thanks everyone for their reply. There are a lot of good tips that I plan to use. I know as mundane as it is it is one of the more important things we do to keep alive and protect our investment.
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Posted: 9/13/2003 6:10:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Look boys. Get rid of the pipe cleaners. You shoudn't be smoking that shit when you're playing with guns ANYWAY. And that's WHY it's taking you two hours to clean a stupid assault (According to ATF - not Webster) rifle. It's like watching a "stoner" (no pun intended Gene) string a guitar. Which, at least, IS a delicate instrument.
Seriously, and I KNOW there are guys who derive as much pleasure WXAING their Z/28's as I do driving mine. Whatever pegs your meter. But as a bunch of guys have pointed out, those are combat weapons. They were designed for some pretty tough treatment at the beginning, and they have evolved dramatically since the early days of Vietnam into arguabley the best toy on the planet. We're talking guns here, not guitars. They've gotten worse. But I'd say 15 minutes well spent with the proper elixurs and a few tools will do the trick. However, if anybody's REALLY into cleaning AR-15's or waxing Z/28's. come on over, I'll buy the beer. Happy shooting. |
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Posted: 9/16/2003 6:15:08 AM EDT
[#37]
I haven't seen any references to the brands of AR-15's different members are using. Not all barrels are created equal. I have a Bushmaster 20" with a chrome chamber and bore. This barrel comes clean with less than ten patches and 5 minutes work. I know that chrome bores are supposed to be less accurate, but they sure are a breeze to clean. As for the rest of the gun - the less lube the better. There aren't really that many places inside the AR that need lubrication. The bolt carrier rails, cam pin and slot, carrier key mouth, and bolt are about it. Everything else is oiled for corrosion prevention. Either use a dry-film product or CLP and wipe it dry. I don't use anything but a dry teflon lube in the lower. This keeps any carbon fouling from building up in the fire control parts.
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Posted: 9/16/2003 2:50:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Well, I take my time cleaning. I try to really clean the chamber and the locking lug area on my AR.
I have however gotten in the habit of completely taking apart my bolt and cleaning it. I simply soak it in slip 2000 and wipe it off. Sometimes, I just use "fast orange" and a toothbrush to get it clean, and alot of hot water. Bake in the oven for 15 minutes to completely dry it and throw on some CLP. Doesnt take too long, and makes me feel better, despite knowing that it wont make the rifle shoot any better. I do clean the hell out of my bore though. I spend a good 20-30 minutes cleaning the bore. Lower reciever is just a simple wipe, buffer tube is a simple wipe, and I patch the upper reciever until the charging handle 'channel' comes out clean. Another reason I clean it as extensively as I do, is because I dont shoot it more than 4-5 times per year, and ever since I got the "balls" to completely take apart my bolt, I honeslty can say I enjoy doing it, and dont mind the cleaning process a bit. |
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Posted: 9/27/2003 5:11:39 AM EDT
[#39]
20 min clean after use, Once a year full cleaning.
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Posted: 9/27/2003 5:26:37 PM EDT
[#40]
30 min w/good ammo, 45 min w/Wolf nasty.
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Posted: 9/28/2003 4:49:19 AM EDT
[#41]
I've got 3 Bushmaster, 1 RRA, 1 DPMS, 1 Professional Ordnance. I clean any of them in less than 30 minutes. |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 6:26:04 AM EDT
[#42]
What's with all the high dollar cleaning gear, bore guides, $25 cleaning rods, etc?
So far (200 rds) I've got a bore-snake knockoff with removable bronze wool, pipe cleaners, an old toothbrush and a can of break free. I shot the barrell full of break-free, pulled the snake through about 5 times, without the wool. Chrome barrell looks clean enough. Still haven't run a brush through and it doesn't look like I'll need to anytime soon. I used my .40 cal glock nylon brush to clean the chamber and lock up area. I can't beleive that the weapon stays as clean as it does. The only thing that looked remotely dirty (carbon) was the bolt. Looks like you could go about 1,000 rounds easy between cleanings. Will I ever need to use nitro-solvent or anything stronger than clp? I want my weapon to last rather than be clean but need replacing. A 5-15 minute operation. |
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Posted: 10/14/2003 9:29:23 PM EDT
[#43]
i spend 5 hours cleaning my ak47 and 3 hours cleaning my bushy a3. bush is very easy to clean. ak47 is so damn hard to get all those gunk out of the barrel.
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Posted: 10/16/2003 8:35:07 PM EDT
[#44]
i've got a SP1 beater that i keep in my tool box in my truck, it looks like sh!t, beat all to hell, i run 2000 rounds through her a year and all i do is spray brake cleaner around the chamber lugs and run a bore snake through it and CLP once every 6 mo. never a malfunction. i do take out the bolt and carrier and leave in CLP over night when i do clean. i've had this SP1 sence 1974. she is a tack driver, she is almost as silver as my hair. they look great beat all to hell, that's what they were made for. they are battle rifles. i also have several safe queens, which one is next for the beater test? my .02 catman
to answer your question not very long and not very often, on this SP1. |
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Posted: 10/17/2003 6:15:46 PM EDT
[#45]
i wonder why people don't clean their guns.
ignorant? lazy? trying to prove a point noone care about? or just plain not bright? i clean my guns. i change my car oil. i wash my clothes and dishes. i cut my grass. certain things in life you just do because they are better when done than not done. |
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Posted: 10/17/2003 11:46:23 PM EDT
[#46]
if you are spending 15 minutes you are doing a shity job you need to spend at least an hour. show some pride in your weapons and clean them right and they will keep performing their best. each time you do a "15 min." job i guaruntee you are leaving behind junk that will eventually be irreversible.
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Posted: 10/18/2003 1:17:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Nope. Just not being anal. |
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Posted: 10/18/2003 1:28:21 PM EDT
[#48]
about 20 minutes for both cleaning AND inspection. had a ka-boom about 6 years ago, and that is why i say AND inspection to check the vitals to see if there is any evidence of excessive wear, etc. bolt cam pins seem to wear a bit when shooting full auto a lot. i had one break on me once, so i replace them about every 5k rounds or so. also, my force recon friends tell me they replace their complete uppers every X-thousand rounds or so due to wear and tear. the lowers last forever (so they say....). i dont have the luxury of uncle sam buying me a complete upper every 5k rounds, so i take a close look at mine and replace what needs replacing when it needs it. gas tubes seem to wear out fairly fast when you do a lot of hammer time...
i'm a soaker. strip the gun. soak in ed's red. run a chamber brush via electric drill and do a bit of chamber polishing while cleaning. disassemble the bolt components and soak in ed's. a bit of scrubbing here and there to get the carbon and gunk off and then hang dry. reassemble with my favorite oil on the wear points. doesnt take that long...i guess i just feel better knowing that i've done a thorough visual inspection on the gun (besides cleaning) next time i pull the trigger..... |
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Posted: 10/18/2003 1:55:34 PM EDT
[#49]
"Otis makes a great cleaning kit. You can pull very tight patches. 5 or 6 and you are good to go."
Picked up one of these, seems like it will do a better job on the bore than the boresnake in about the same amount of time. Also the proper chamber brush included. |
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Posted: 10/18/2003 8:57:27 PM EDT
[#50]
it is fully acknowlegded that the super clean gun will get dirty the moment you pull the trigger and shoot once round. you can just run a patch with some oil and the gun will be pretty clean again.
i love my guns. i work hard to buy them and i think they're cool. i know i spend more time than people cleaning my guns, but i do it slowly and watch baseball at the same time. i also don't have the right space to do it. if i have a shop with the gun rack, it would take me 1 hours to clean the gun up pretty good. to clean the entire gun up really well, i need another half an hour to take all the furniture of and clean the gas chamber with the tooth brush and scrub out the piston rod tip. i do put a lot of oil than i need for my guns. the oil drips out a lot. oil is cheap because i use motor oil. i clean my guns with motor oil and hoppe's #9, which is a very good product to clean out fouling. i use penzoil to loosen up the gunk so i won't have to use too much hoppe, that stuffs smell. then i lube the gun with mobil 1 synthetic. i usually just dump 2 teaspoon worth of mobil 1 oil down the barrel and let it run through out the entire gun. then i take a rag and wipe all the excess oil once they run to the outside of the gun. now, the gun is clean both in and out. i run 2 patches down teh barrel right at the range befre shoot the gun to get all the oil out. this is how i do thing. i like guns. i am not sure why people don't like cleaning their guns. it is like saying you like cars but you don't want to wash it or change the oil. some people have deep respect for things, especially when they have to work hard for it. ar15 isn't cheap, so i am sure everyone here had to compromise a lot to get them. peace. |
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