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Posted: 4/21/2021 8:12:03 AM EDT
[#1]
I am just checking into this also. They supposedly have a lifetime warranty, so I have emailed them. I will report back when/if they reply back.
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Posted: 4/21/2021 10:03:15 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 4/21/2021 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: The trigger and hammer bushings are worn and wondering if anyone have found any replacement? This appears to be a common problem. Apparently 5D shipped a lot of jigs with super soft bushings. Like soft as Babbit lead, not hardened steel like they are supposed to be. Lots of reports of significant failure even on the first lower milled. I've seen jigs without bushings, just aluminum that have been used for dozens of lowers w/o significant wear, so that's a serious problem. |
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Posted: 4/22/2021 12:42:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I drove my bushings out and they were very soft. Gonna try and order some from McMaster.
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Posted: 4/23/2021 1:56:15 AM EDT
[#5]
How do you plan to press new ones in... using the corner of bench vise jaws?
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Posted: 4/23/2021 7:56:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Got a small hydraulic press, gonna try that first.
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Posted: 4/23/2021 6:29:02 PM EDT
[#7]
That should work a lot better than a vise.
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Posted: 4/23/2021 8:08:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got a small hydraulic press, gonna try that first. Freeze the bushing and heat the aluminum jig to about 250* in a oven. |
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Posted: 4/23/2021 8:45:55 PM EDT
[#9]
I have replaced the large bushing in mine.
I ordered the 3/8 x 1/2 bushing. After pressing out the old bushing I found out the outer size was less than 1/2" in the fixture so I had to drill the holes to 1/2" so the bushings would fit. All is well, I now use a drill press to drill the holes and the bushing have been holding up fine. |
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Posted: 4/26/2021 3:02:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am just checking into this also. They supposedly have a lifetime warranty, so I have emailed them. I will report back when/if they reply back. When did you purchase your 5D jig? |
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Posted: 5/3/2021 9:26:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have replaced the large bushing in mine. I ordered the 3/8 x 1/2 bushing. After pressing out the old bushing I found out the outer size was less than 1/2" in the fixture so I had to drill the holes to 1/2" so the bushings would fit. All is well, I now use a drill press to drill the holes and the bushing have been holding up fine. That's the main reason I used the press from my 1st build on, I want to remove as little material as possible from that bushing & keep it straight as I can too. |
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Posted: 5/25/2021 12:23:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Called 5D today and they are selling the side replacements for the old style jigs. Still gonna try and order some replacement bushings.
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Posted: 5/25/2021 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#13]
How many lowers are you guys doing before the bushings fail? Mine has maybe two dozen done on it and no issues yet, so I'm curious.
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Posted: 5/25/2021 4:44:43 PM EDT
[#14]
My jig worked good on my lowers. A friend did his and was heavy handed and ruined mine. The directions plainly state not to be drilling while entering holes. Will drill holes with drill press or turn vice sideways to help prevent this. Did not ask about warranty because I didn't think it was the device.
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Posted: 5/25/2021 5:16:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My jig worked good on my lowers. A friend did his and was heavy handed and ruined mine. The directions plainly state not to be drilling while entering holes. Will drill holes with drill press or turn vice sideways to help prevent this. Did not ask about warranty because I didn't think it was the device. From what I've seen, even if someone is doing the drilling incorrectly, it is unlikely that the bushings would show the amount of wear/damage people are seeing if they were properly hardened. I've seen cheap jigs with no inserts at all hold up better than people have been seeing with some 5D jigs. I suspect that the bushings probably come from China (like just about everything else these days) and that 5D may have bought from a bad supplier or gotten a bad batch that were not hardened at all. Too see totally egged out bushings on a single use, the bushings would have to be as soft as a Babbitt bearing. Edit to add... I probably dated myself. Most younger people probably have no idea what Babbitt metal is... It is usually a Lead-Tin alloy used in bearings on old (like Model T era) engines. It is extremely soft, even softer than most Aluminum alloys. It is used in bearings because it is resistant to galling and relatively tolerant of friction in underlubed circumstances. It is possible that 5D was sold bearings as hardened bushings instead of what they were supposed to get. You've got to watch Chinese companies about things like this -- some of them will slip in cheaper or defective product if you don't monitor quality stringently. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 6:29:35 PM EDT
[#16]
5D are sending me the top plate and both side plates in the new version at a discount. At first I thought they were sending the old side plates but they are not available.
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Posted: 6/21/2021 5:18:12 PM EDT
[#17]
This was after four lowers.
   Two seconds with a jewelers file:  This is the response from 5D: Thanks for reaching out to us. How many screw holes are in the top of your walls? We do offer replacement walls on our website, but not for the older model walls. I need to reach out to speak to someone live as this is unacceptable. This is clearly a manufacturing defect. At this point the jig and an AR9 lower are trash and I'm out over $500. I shouldn't have to find someone to press new bushing out and in. it is disgusting to me that they are seemingly unwilling to stand behind their product. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 5:36:42 PM EDT
[#18]
That is clearly NOT a properly hardened drill bushing. That looks like it is barely harder than aluminum, if even that. Obviously defective, and really should be replaced under warranty.
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Posted: 6/21/2021 7:01:16 PM EDT
[#19]
@QuirkyP71
Quote HistoryQuoted: This was after four lowers. https://i.imgur.com/zBDwpCc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7wWtoY1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NCoKGE6.jpg Two seconds with a jewelers file: https://i.imgur.com/XhaSsJG.jpg This is the response from 5D: Thanks for reaching out to us. How many screw holes are in the top of your walls? We do offer replacement walls on our website, but not for the older model walls. I need to reach out to speak to someone live as this is unacceptable. This is clearly a manufacturing defect. At this point the jig and an AR9 lower are trash and I'm out over $500. I shouldn't have to find someone to press new bushing out and in. it is disgusting to me that they are seemingly unwilling to stand behind their product. When did you purchase your jig? Did you purchase directly from 5D? |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 7:45:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @QuirkyP71 When did you purchase your jig? Did you purchase directly from 5D? Purchased directly from 5D on 12/23/19. I received it and it sat in a box unused until a couple months ago. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 8:10:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is clearly NOT a properly hardened drill bushing. That looks like it is barely harder than aluminum, if even that. Obviously defective, and really should be replaced under warranty. Agree, that isn't even tool steel hard. For the money they charge, that is pitiful. Do they have a rep on this site? |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 8:25:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they have a rep on this site? Not anymore! |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 8:59:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agree, that isn't even tool steel hard. For the money they charge, that is pitiful. Do they have a rep on this site? They used to have a representative on the site. They used to have a good reputation. But that has been going downhill unfortunately, because the problem reported here appears to be all too common and not the only quality issue that has been complained about. It is unfortunate. They used to be considered the best jig by a lot of people. Right now I can't say I could recommend them without reservations. I'm not sure about Modulus, which also used to be a great company and product or 80% Arms either, as I've heard a lot of complaints about 80% (mostly related to the GST-9, not specifically about their jigs). I've actually went as far as to figure out an alternative router based jig solution for in case I ever wear out my old Modulus HD jig. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:04:13 PM EDT
[#24]
@freefalle7 may know what’s up
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:09:31 PM EDT
[#25]
No clue
I still have their original jig and it doesn't need bushings, drill correct and bushings are not needed. Could be demand and them selling jigs hand over fist, sometimes success can be a company's worst enemy. Look on the bright side, their jigs are not black oxide coated  |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:20:32 PM EDT
[#26]
15 plus lowers...using a 30yr old drill press.
Dont need any stinking bushings, just need to make sure the jig is leveled and the drill bit is center in the hole.  |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:28:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: The trigger and hammer bushings are worn and wondering if anyone have found any replacement? If you used a drill press was the jig levelled using a level and clamped down? I have to shim mine sometimes in my vise to make sure the bit is center, do this and you will never have a issue. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:33:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They used to have a representative on the site. They used to have a good reputation. But that has been going downhill unfortunately, because the problem reported here appears to be all too common and not the only quality issue that has been complained about. It is unfortunate. They used to be considered the best jig by a lot of people. Right now I can't say I could recommend them without reservations. I'm not sure about Modulus, which also used to be a great company and product or 80% Arms either, as I've heard a lot of complaints about 80% (mostly related to the GST-9, not specifically about their jigs). I've actually went as far as to figure out an alternative router based jig solution for in case I ever wear out my old Modulus HD jig. If the bushing is in the jig correctly, jig clamped down and drill bit center I don't see how a bushing could be damaged. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:35:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Hit them up on Facebook and you will get a response.
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Posted: 6/21/2021 9:36:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the bushings not placed correctly causing the issue? If the bushing is in the jig correctly, jig clamped down and drill bit center I don't see how a bushing could be damaged. If you are using a hand drill, as 5D claims you can do, because the drill guides are dead soft any transverse load by the drill bit on the bushing ID will destroy it in short order. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 10:31:13 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are using a hand drill, as 5D claims you can do, because the drill guides are dead soft any transverse load by the drill bit on the bushing ID will destroy it in short order. I just use my drill press for great results every time, had wrist injuries and I would fuck it up with a hand drill. No matter what they say or show the drill press is the correct answer for drilling accurate pin holes. As long as the drill is center and the jig leveled/clamped properly, the holes will be perfect every time. IMO never liked the idea of a hand drill. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 10:39:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea they claim you can use a hand drill, but when the first jig came out many were reporting issues from crooked holes etc. I just use my drill press for great results every time, had wrist injuries and I would fuck it up with a hand drill. No matter what they say or show the drill press is the correct answer for drilling accurate pin holes. As long as the drill is center and the jig leveled/clamped properly, the holes will be perfect every time. IMO never liked the idea of a hand drill. This is how they advertise their jig. Incredibly Durable - The first universal 80% lower jig ever to offer all ultra-hardened, heat treated steel wear surfaces. The 1.25 inch thick drill guide is constructed of 100% hardened steel, and the side plates house 1.5 inch ultra-hardened steel drill bushings. If you can wear this jig out, we want to hear from you! It should meet this criteria regardless of drilling method. The drill guides in mine were clearly not hardened. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 10:55:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is how they advertise their jig. Incredibly Durable - The first universal 80% lower jig ever to offer all ultra-hardened, heat treated steel wear surfaces. The 1.25 inch thick drill guide is constructed of 100% hardened steel, and the side plates house 1.5 inch ultra-hardened steel drill bushings. If you can wear this jig out, we want to hear from you! It should meet this criteria regardless of drilling method. The drill guides in mine were clearly not hardened. I have bits that will drill into hardened steel. Sucks, but like I said I would use a drill press vs a hand drill. Post some pics on their Facebook page and see what they say. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 10:58:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have bits that will drill into hardened steel. Super. The steel on the jig was supposed to be hardened. It was not. At all. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 11:04:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Super. The steel on the jig was supposed to be hardened. It was not. At all. I just know that no matter how hardened a bushing is, it can be cut/drilled out. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 11:06:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just forwarded the pics via Facebook messenger, we will see what their response is Thank you! I don't use facebook so thanks for getting this to them. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 11:08:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you! I don't use facebook so thanks for getting this to them. I am not affiliated with 5D, but I am a fanboy as their jig got me into the 80% game. |
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Posted: 6/21/2021 11:14:15 PM EDT
[#38]
I was really disappointed, you could use the router to open up the pocket easily but the triggers never lined up and the bearings wore out like the ones in the pictures above. I was afraid it was just me but now that I see that and I'm going to see if they'll replace them.
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Posted: 6/21/2021 11:17:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Np I am not affiliated with 5D, but I am a fanboy as their jig got me into the 80% game. Everything outside of drilling the selector hole was fantastic. It is the best jig on the market but this seems like a known issue that is not being addressed very well. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 10:31:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the bushings not placed correctly causing the issue? If the bushing is in the jig correctly, jig clamped down and drill bit center I don't see how a bushing could be damaged. The "bushing" appears to be as soft as lead. It looks like if anything is off even just a little or someone uses a hand drill that it is very easy to damage this jig. I'd agree that what you say is how it SHOULD be. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be how it actually is. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 11:35:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So they claim even if the drill bit isn't centered it can't cut through the bushings? Lol I have bits that will drill into hardened steel. Sucks, but like I said I would use a drill press vs a hand drill. Post some pics on their Facebook page and see what they say. Drill INTO hardened steel, yes. But drill bits aren't designed to DRILL sideways and this is what is happening. There is no way a HARDENED steel bushing should deform like that due to side force. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 12:34:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Mine is one of the FIRST PRO jigs that was produced. My bushings look new, but then again I FIRST make sure that the bit enters the bushing EASILY before I start the drill press.
The bit and the bushing are both lubed and the drill bit is confirmed to be square to the hole. DON’T try to force the bit too hard, let the bit do it’s job and it’s important to use QUALITY bits or you will experience deflection and get into your bushing. I still have a FIRST Gen. Modulus Arms jig that doesn’t even have bushings, the holes still have Type II anodizing showing! WHY? Because I did all of the above to insure my aluminum side plates didn’t have to be replaced |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 4:59:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine is one of the FIRST PRO jigs that was produced. My bushings look new, but then again I FIRST make sure that the bit enters the bushing EASILY before I start the drill press. The bit and the bushing are both lubed and the drill bit is confirmed to be square to the hole. DON’T try to force the bit too hard, let the bit do it’s job and it’s important to use QUALITY bits or you will experience deflection and get into your bushing. I still have a FIRST Gen. Modulus Arms jig that doesn’t even have bushings, the holes still have Type II anodizing showing! WHY? Because I did all of the above to insure my aluminum side plates didn’t have to be replaced Everything you say is true... But if the bushings are properly hardened even the most ham handed person should be able to drill out several lowers using a hand drill and even the cheap bits that 5D supplies. The pic posted earlier where a few seconds of filing on the bushing with a small rat tail file made a noticeable notch is pretty much conclusive proof the bushings are super soft. That much filing on a properly hardened bushing should barely make a clean shiny spot. It usually takes more than a few seconds with a file to make that much notch even in 7075 aluminum. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 7:55:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything outside of drilling the selector hole was fantastic. It is the best jig on the market but this seems like a known issue that is not being addressed very well. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 8:09:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still no reply on the message I sent. Thank you, I was curious. Their phone support is just a recorded message that you have reached them outside support hours and hangs up. This was their response: Unfortunately, we do not have any more of our older walls in stock. If there's anything else you'd like to have answered while I have your support ticket open, feel free to message me again. I have asked them to send me a new base plate and walls. I am not optimistic. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 8:14:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, I was curious. Their phone support is just a recorded message that you have reached them outside support hours and hangs up. This was their response: Unfortunately, we do not have any more of our older walls in stock. If there's anything else you'd like to have answered while I have your support ticket open, feel free to message me again. I have asked them to send me a new base plate and walls. I am not optimistic. Thats about all I can do, I think with success comes problems eventually. Hopefully you can get taken care of. Seriously I would ditch the hand drill if that's what you use, regardless of what the boast a drill press is better. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 9:35:50 PM EDT
[#47]
should consider drilling the right-side selector hole 3/8" - 1/2" deep FIRST, before milling the FCG pocket. Reasons have been discussed before...
agree, using a hand drill should be verboten. |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 9:57:41 PM EDT
[#48]
I completely agree that a drill press is a preferable option to a hand drill. The 5D youtube instructions for use of the jig show them using a hand drill. The damage to the bushings was not due to drilling into the bushings from the other side, it is from the transverse load from the drill bit which would not be an issue if the bushings were properly hardened.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=791_LafOw4A&t=664s |
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Posted: 6/22/2021 10:31:57 PM EDT
[#49]
I hate to be the contrarian, but I have drilled several lowers with a hand drill and the drill bushings are still perfect. Might have something to do with my method. I made two slip fit bushings to reduce the 3/8" hole to 3/16". I drill the smaller hole and then remove the 3/8" od bushings and drill the 3/8" hole. I think having the small pilot hole tends to keep the 3/8" bit centered. The reducer bushings I made are just 3/8" water hardening drill rod that I didn't harden. I drilled the rod stock through on a lathe to make sure the 3/16" hole was centered. This system has worked just fine with a 5D and an 80% jig.
You might be able to get the same result with a 3/8" center drill, if there's one available long enough. I haven't looked. YMMV |
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Posted: 6/23/2021 9:21:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate to be the contrarian, but I have drilled several lowers with a hand drill and the drill bushings are still perfect. Might have something to do with my method. I made two slip fit bushings to reduce the 3/8" hole to 3/16". I drill the smaller hole and then remove the 3/8" od bushings and drill the 3/8" hole. I think having the small pilot hole tends to keep the 3/8" bit centered. The reducer bushings I made are just 3/8" water hardening drill rod that I didn't harden. I drilled the rod stock through on a lathe to make sure the 3/16" hole was centered. This system has worked just fine with a 5D and an 80% jig. You might be able to get the same result with a 3/8" center drill, if there's one available long enough. I haven't looked. YMMV This. I bought my 5D back in 2019, and at least two dozen lowers have been completed on it. I've never used anything but hand drills (and have no depth perception), and my bushings are still fine and undamaged. It must have been a bad run of bushings/bearings. |
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