Freaking FSB pins!!! *Finally got it* ** New problem on pg 2 cause I'm a retard.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Freaking FSB pins!!! *Finally got it* ** New problem on pg 2 cause I'm a retard. (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 6/21/2005 1:31:10 PM EDT

I have been pounding away on a Bushy FSB for the last 20 minutes with no luck. I even have the fancy dancy Brownells FSB block that holds it perfect. These freaking things will not budge. What are some tricks as this is my first attempt at this.

Posted: 6/21/2005 1:48:23 PM EDT

[#1]

Yeah, there's always a trick...you could try heating the FSB up, remember them pins are supoused to come out the same side brass is ejected (to the right on an average rifle, from the shooting position). Other solution, could be throwing the whole assy inside the freezer "expansion, contraction should work for you". When i took them out, i used the heating process, worked just fine for me, they came right out at first punch, and dont worry, you wont damage anything. Just heat it up till you can't touch it with your bare hands stop and then start punching.
HUNTER.

Posted: 6/21/2005 2:00:51 PM EDT

[#2]

What are you using for a punch? I use a Stanley 3/32" nail set, as the concave end fits the rounded head of the taper pins perfectly. You might try soaking the pins with Kroil and letting it sit overnight.

Posted: 6/21/2005 2:04:05 PM EDT

[#3]

Best way is a hydraulic shop press if you have access to one.

Posted: 6/21/2005 2:25:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Before the Brownell's blocks, I would just cast a hard lead (Linotype or Lyman's #2) block under the FSB and then drill out the pin holes to allow passage. It has a much higher modulus than the plastic block and gives a harder hit.

The pins are HARD and convex, making a hard hit difficult. Putting the whole thing on a strong, concrete floor will give a harder hit.

I have an automatic center punch with a concave head from all the FSB work. It gives hard hits easily although it takes a bunch of them (10-20 hits) to budge the pins.

Posted: 6/21/2005 2:39:02 PM EDT

[#5]

HIT IT HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WITH A BIG A$$ HAMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 6/21/2005 3:18:15 PM EDT

[#6]

I went through this last week. Thankfully I was replacing the gas block and the front sight so I used a dremel tool. With the proper cross cuts close to the barrel, 2 whacks with a 3lb hammer and it came right off.

Posted: 6/21/2005 4:35:49 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
HIT IT HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WITH A BIG A$$ HAMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What he said !!!

Posted: 6/21/2005 6:04:46 PM EDT

[#8]

This FSB removal deal has got me so freaked out about my current build, I just broke down and ordered a Samson forearm for my new middy. Guess I'm just a wuss!

Posted: 6/21/2005 9:07:51 PM EDT

[#9]

I used an improvised block and wound up flattening out a Brownells taper pin punch in the process. They did finally go, but I broke down and did a penetrant soak for 30min and upgraded from an 8oz to a 16oz ball peen whacker. I only broke one pin in half

Now if only I could find my Jeep wrench... It's a 3 or 4lb sledge that I needed on damn near every mod/repair/carwash I did on that thing.

Posted: 6/22/2005 2:12:13 AM EDT

[#10]

Bushmaster:

Oversized punch + big hammer + two hard hits per pin = pins out. This has worked for me 100% of the time. To date, I've removed the pins on 15-20 Bushmaster barrels without issue. I only use two 3/4" X 3/4" strips of oak to support the FSB and barrel and do this on a standard workbench.

Posted: 6/22/2005 4:02:36 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Best way is a hydraulic shop press if you have access to one.

+1. Easiest method, IMHO.

Mike

Posted: 6/22/2005 5:07:33 AM EDT

[#12]

Once I finish my build (tonight most likely), I will post pictures of what the FSB should look like after a *proper* removal.

I'm thinking there is probably some way of making a bottle opener out of it.

Posted: 6/22/2005 5:12:23 AM EDT

[#13]

There are two kinds of guys who have worked on ARs, those that have done it "hundreds of times without problem" who invariable reply with snide comments, and those who hae encountered problems themselves, know that it can and does happen, and can reply with helpful tips. This applies to front sight bases and barrel nuts most commonly.

I used a concave nail set and a 2.5 lb hammer and could not get the pins out of my old SP1 front sight base. I eventually gave up as the only reason I was wanting to remove it was to refinish the barrel with Norrell's. Conversely, my LMT front sight pins (not taper) came out easily.

Posted: 6/22/2005 6:18:41 AM EDT

[#14]

I spent 2 hours banging on the pins and they wouldn't budge and I literally dremel'd it off because I was getting annoyed. There's a first time for everything I guess... that seems to be when people have the most problems. Those pins are a pain in the ass.

Posted: 6/22/2005 10:43:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Corrision and tight fit are reasons for problem.

The table you work on and support block have got a lot to do with it. I saw the brownells block and immediately thought to myself too soft!

However given all that, soak the pins whack a few times and then put it in freezer. Next day get a hard wood block and use a cement floor or a very heavy duty bench. Actually I like using and anvil on stump method. Also it helps to have four hands. One set to hold it tight to blocks and put a glove on hand that holds the pin punch. Also us starter punch that is larger than pins. Then a 24 ounce ball peen hammer. Then as Mongoose said two whacks and they will be out.

To put it back together is another matter you should really get a tapered reamer and have supply of oversized pins. What I do is put one pin back in but not real tight then I ream the other hole, then install that pin tight. Then remove first ream then install second pin tight.

Most of time I recommend the armalite clamp style front sight as it allows windage adjustment. I also apply loctite to FSB and only use modest tension. However I don't believe it is as strong as the pin method.

It doesn't tak much to distort a barrel. The most obvious is overtighten a flash hider will kill a barrels accuracy.

Posted: 6/22/2005 1:27:43 PM EDT

[#16]

In the armorer's class that I attended months ago, we soaked the taper pins with Kroil, supported the barrel with wood, used a Stanley 3/32" nail set, and used what I figure was a 16-ounce hammer. Out of 48 taper pins, only one refused to budge. The other 47 came out with a few whacks. Just about every manufacture of AR-15 was represented there.

Posted: 6/22/2005 2:05:28 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
There are two kinds of guys who have worked on ARs, those that have done it "hundreds of times without problem" who invariable reply with snide comments, and those who hae encountered problems themselves, know that it can and does happen, and can reply with helpful tips. This applies to front sight bases and barrel nuts most commonly.

I used a concave nail set and a 2.5 lb hammer and could not get the pins out of my old SP1 front sight base. I eventually gave up as the only reason I was wanting to remove it was to refinish the barrel with Norrell's. Conversely, my LMT front sight pins (not taper) came out easily.

Pull the FSB to spray and bake? Ouch...

FWIW, I lost a good portion of the gunkote I had between in the FSB section of the barrel when I removed it to install an FF tube. I wouldn't recommend pulling the FSB to paint the barrel unless you'd like to see the same on installation.

eta - I try to learn from the BTDT guys instead of flaming them, but spend your common sense where you will.

Posted: 6/22/2005 2:57:51 PM EDT

[#18]

Well I went and found a 3/32 nail punch out in the garage like you guys suggested and I even found a bigger hammer, but these mothers won't budge. I haven't tried the freezer thing yet.

Posted: 6/22/2005 3:15:44 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
and those who hae encountered problems themselves, know that it can and does happen, and can reply with helpful tips.

those of us who have no problems do so bc we've solved those problems and post the solutions, as mongo did. the biggest mistake a lot of goobers make is using too small of a punch and too weak of a backstop. IMMOBILIZE the FSB and use a punch about 1/4" OD, I use an 8 oz hammer and have NEVER had to use anything larger.

Posted: 6/22/2005 3:19:49 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Pull the FSB to spray and bake? Ouch...

Actually I don't know if I would have or not. The barrel was old and I mostly wanted to see what was under there before I refinished. Not to mention I figured it would be a more complete degrease if I did it with the FSB off.

FWIW, I lost a good portion of the gunkote I had between in the FSB section of the barrel when I removed it to install an FF tube. I wouldn't recommend pulling the FSB to paint the barrel unless you'd like to see the same on installation.

That's one of the reasons I may have just reassembled it before spraying anyway.

eta - I try to learn from the BTDT guys instead of flaming them, but spend your common sense where you will.

When they offer help, that's fine, when the "experts" spout off about how the person asking the question must be an idiot because they couldn't possibly be having the problem they are posting about, it's counterproductive.

Posted: 6/22/2005 3:33:33 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Bushmaster:

Oversized punch + big hammer + two hard hits per pin = pins out. This has worked for me 100% of the time. To date, I've removed the pins on 15-20 Bushmaster barrels without issue. I only use two 3/4" X 3/4" strips of oak to support the FSB and barrel and do this on a standard workbench.

I only use an 8 oz hammer. I still get them out in less than 5 hits each. Usually 3 per pin. I could start using a heavier hammer, but I'd think that I have to get the pliars to wiggle out the punch from the front sight base if I followed through too much.

For barrel support, I use a set of V-blocks from Brownells. There is a pair of them with different heights. It works out perfectly for Gov't profile barrels like M4s, 20" Gov't weights, and Gov't profile midlengths. The ones I probably take off the most are the Bushy 16" M4. That has been a really popular barrel for us.

Brett

Posted: 6/22/2005 9:47:13 PM EDT

[#22]

On most barrels I use a bench vise and barrel blocks with padded channels to hold right up next to the FSB. I never have any problems with this setup nor does it require any undue force. It totally cures any bounce and a couple of whacks with an 8 oz hammer and oversize punch drive them right out.

J

Posted: 6/22/2005 10:00:13 PM EDT

[#23]

I knew I should've just let you continue to build my stuff instead of trying to do it myself. My 9mm build came out kick ass though. I may be sending this barrel to you to take this stupid thing off for me.

Posted: 6/22/2005 11:21:49 PM EDT

[#24]

hmmm, 3 votes for 8 oz hammers

Posted: 6/23/2005 8:58:52 AM EDT

[#25]

I like a heavy hammer I don't have to swing hard. Means I don't hit my fingers as often.

Posted: 6/23/2005 2:29:51 PM EDT

[#26]

I finally got them out. I let them soak over night and then just got the balls to hit it hard. I don't think I was hitting it hard enough is what the problem was.

Posted: 6/23/2005 3:27:41 PM EDT

[#27]

All is well that ends well :)

I personally like my shredded FSB but good job!!!

You are the FSB pin MASTA!! Think of how easy it will be next time.

Posted: 6/23/2005 4:00:47 PM EDT

[#28]

Glad you got them out.
Felt good didn't it.

Hitting them hard with a heavy hammer transfers more energy to the head of the pin than hitting them hard with a light hammer.

Posted: 6/23/2005 4:17:57 PM EDT

[#29]

OK.... I feel so stupid now. I have a new problem of I can't wiggle the front sight and pull it off. I can wiggle it maybe a 1/4 of an inch back and forth but it won't slide down at all. I'm soaking it in oil right now like I did the pins.

Posted: 6/23/2005 4:32:42 PM EDT

[#30]

I'd laugh if the gas tube was still connected.

Posted: 6/23/2005 4:40:55 PM EDT

[#31]

Big rubber mallet.

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:15:32 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I'd laugh if the gas tube was still connected.

Why? It would just slide out of the upper receiver. It's only pinned at the front sight base.

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:17:03 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I'd laugh if the gas tube was still connected.

And I'm laughing because it wouldn't matter if it was.

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:19:28 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'd laugh if the gas tube was still connected.

And I'm laughing because it wouldn't matter if it was.

Beat me to it lol

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:21:00 PM EDT

[#35]

Ha ha... It's a brand new barrel so the gas tube hasn't even been put in.

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:22:33 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Big rubber mallet.

+1 yep

Posted: 6/23/2005 5:27:15 PM EDT

[#37]

I'm thinking now that I'm REALLY GLAD I dremel'd that thing off. You have a lot of patience!!! I enjoyed using the cutting wheel on the FSB and then bashing it off with a 3lb sledge.

Posted: 6/23/2005 11:04:53 PM EDT

[#38]

I take it you haven't read the FAQ where it covers FSB removal?

Twist the FSB several times to break off the burrs. Lube the barrel heavily around the FSB and forward of it to the muzzle to prevent scratching the finish. If you have to use a mallet (rare) you should use it only to move the FSB off the seat. If you use it to remove the FSB from the barrel you will scratch the finish on the barrel.

Quoted:
I like a heavy hammer I don't have to swing hard. Means I don't hit my fingers as often.

I've never had to swing mine hard, a little hammer like that won't take it. Try a bigger punch, makes it much more difficult to hit your fingers.

Posted: 6/23/2005 11:45:28 PM EDT

[#39]

I did read the FAQ's because that is what I was using as a guide.

"3. Now, lubricate the FSB and the area on the barrel in front of the FSB with CLP, WD40, gun oil...etc... this it to ensure we will scratch the barrel as little as possible upon removing the FSB. Wiggle the FSB back and forth to loosen it... you may need to put the barrel back in the upper receiver to hold it for this step. Then, pull the FSB from the barrel, going slow and taking care. If you go slowly, you shouldnt place any marks on the barrel from this step. Remove the barrel nut and delta ring as well:"

It says Wiggle not twist several times like you stated. And like I stated I could only wiggle it back and forth about 1/4 an inch just holding onto it with my hands.

Posted: 6/24/2005 12:04:34 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I did read the FAQ's because that is what I was using as a guide.

This is the FAQ

Posted: 6/24/2005 3:46:16 AM EDT

[#41]

Ok. That needs to be put in the Build Your Own FAQ's cause that's what I was looking at. I don't think I've ever looked in the Troubleshooting section.

Posted: 6/26/2005 7:02:00 AM EDT

[#42]

An 8OZ. hammer? I find that incredible that you can get the pins out with that. I have had pins that would laugh at an 8oz. hammer. I don't doubt that it works for you guys, but I am amazed.

Posted: 6/26/2005 11:40:07 PM EDT

[#43]

taken out thousands of them with it

Posted: 10/18/2005 11:22:07 PM EDT

[#44]

good info here

Posted: 10/19/2005 9:27:31 AM EDT

[#45]

I used to use a Dremel, which worked fine on FSB's like a knife in butter (These are other member's pics, but you get the idea) :

Here's what I use now:

The mini-sledge, Brownell's block and taper pin punch were a godsend. My 6920's pins popped out on the 2nd whack, and I didn't even hit it that hard. I couldn't believe what a piece of cake it was. Trying to knock them out with a claw hammer and a regular punch wouldn't solve the problem, so the Dremel and Stoli always made life easier (and more fun in the process).

The best photo got accidentally erased - Duffy and I had limited tools in Malibu and took a Dremel to a Bushy FSB. We made two cuts on one side of the FSB, completely through it so the "loops" around the barrel were wide open, but it still wouldn't budge at all. After cutting four horizontal slices through both sides of the FSB like in the first photo, the FSB broke loose, but the bottom front (the part with the bayo lug) was still stuck on the bottom of the barrel! We had to whack it with a hammer at least 3 times before it popped off. There was no rust, so I assume the pin was just installed at the factory with a pile driver.

Posted: 10/20/2005 7:08:26 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Gotta hit them hard on the first and second hit, especially Bushmaster. Most would shit themselves if they saw how hard I hit them. BUT, I get them out every time.

Posted: 10/20/2005 10:04:03 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Ok. That needs to be put in the Build Your Own FAQ's cause that's what I was looking at. I don't think I've ever looked in the Troubleshooting section.

There is no "the" FAQ. There are just guides.... put out by those of us who post our experiences. Tweak has his in troubleshooting, I have mine in BIY.