User Panel
Posted: 9/15/2004 7:32:37 PM EDT
I've successfully built a couple of Tannery Shop 80% castings and became interested in the new 80% lowers available from www.ar15plus.com. I bought two as investments for the future. Here's some pictures and observations on them. The AR15plus web site hasn't enough pictures and the ones they have are too small to really judge the high quality of these guys.
(above) This first picture shows the National Ordinance forged lower in front looking rather silver and the Tannery Shop forging in the back looking gray. You'll note the front pivot pin is already drilled on the National Ordinance lower which can be used to index to many of the available jigs. (above) This picture shows another one of the differences between the two lowers. The Tannery Shop lower has the "index" hole below where the receiver extension would screw in. This ought to be a simple hole to drill out with 0.50" bit to the depth of 0.20". You'll also notice the positive stops for the safety. (above) Here's another picture showing the front and back of the forging. The top surface looks to be pretty close but at this point I can't tell 100% as there's a bit of milling/filing to be done in the back pocket to get the take down stud of the upper to fit down into the lower. I does look closer than the casting. When I made my first two rifles this was one of the most time consuming portions of the build matching the rounded curve on the rear of the lower to the upper. A close up of two areas of interest. On the lower on the left you can see the "flaw" on the lower edge of the magazine well. This is actually the result of the forging process and can be filed down a bit if it bothers you, it doesn't bother function at all. The lower on the right displays the pre-drilled holes for the trigger guard. Some builders have had problems with these but on my castings I had no problem at all using sharp drill bits and a piece of wood 0.450" large stuck between the ears to support them during drilling. (above) This photo shows the details around the bolt catch release and the magazine release. All of theses difficult slots are cut to proper size. Only left to do is the bolt catch retaining pin hole. The quality of the satin finish of the lower can be seen with the soft glow on the magazine well. The touch is silky smooth and ready for finishing. (above) A view looking down into the magazine well and trigger assembly. The lips of the mag well are finished and a USGI magazine can be barely forced into the well. This is good and bad. Good because there's not a whole lot of work to be done here, bad as this lower would make a bad single shot for use under a .50 BMG in California. Of my two samples one is large enough that magazines fit, the other isn't. As I said early the back end of the trigger assembly needs to be milled out enough to let the lower's stud drop down into the hole. One of my Bushmaster uppers measures 0.50", the hole measures just 0.460. On the Tannery Shop lower this work isn't needed. Probably take two minutes on a mill or twenty with a file. (above) Here's the belly of the lower. Note the magazine well lips are already tapered. You can again see the forging seam running across the bottom - note either side where the trigger pops out. My over all impression is one of approval. These guys are going to be much easier to finish then the Tannery Shop lower from three years ago. The finish is a nice touch and worth the extra few dollars. The top surface looks good to go after dropping the thing in my OSI drill jig. The receiver extension still requires the expensive 1-1/8" drill bit and the 1-3/16" tap but the actually drilling and tapping operation is easy enough. I think I could have one of these things ready to assemble in about an hour as long as the back curve of the upper surface is correct. Milling out the back end of the trigger assembly looks to be the most difficult part of the whole job. Looks like I build my one last Tannery Shop lower into a single shot for a .50 BMG and use the National Ordinance ones for other purposes. The picture gallery for my Tannery Shop bulid is here: 80% Tannery Shop lower project and shows some of the needed tools. The Tannery Shop is back in business after taking care of business in Iraq. He's now got forged receivers too at $115 as well as the cast ones mentioned above for $80 www.tanneryshop.com/ William is a good guy and one of the first to start selling the castings. |
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What tools and skills are most needed to finish out an 80% lower? I kinda like the idea of a gun that no forms were ever filled out on. That's the attarction right? Not a firearm therefore not nessisary to FFL transfer?
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(above) You need common drill bits available at your local hardware store, a cheap drill press ($50), a 3/32" - 8 inch bit for the bolt release retaining pin hole, some duct tape , some common flat files or a mill to open the back end up a bit, and the two special tools needed for the receiver extension - a 1-1/8" drill bit and a 1-3/16" tapper. You'll need a common 1/4"-28 tape for the pistol grip hole. You also need a caliper to measure various sizes and depths. A nice blue print is always nice but you can find the files here off of the home page. www.ar15.com/content/manuals/lowerBlueprint.pdf (150 Kb Abobe Acrobat file) (above) There are cheaper jigs out there now, this one is like three years old now and was one of the first and most complete. The jig helps you with like 8 of the 15 total holes needed. (above) Normally the places that sell the 80% receivers have a package or several levels of packages that have tools required. The use of a jig makes cranking these things out an easy job rather than a chore. If you use a jig get some transfer punches to save wear on it. Skill wise the processes doesn't require a skilled machinist. I'm a computer network manager and prior to that a broadcast televsion engineer. I have experence working on mechanical computers but I am not a trained machinist in any sense. You have to complete these rifles yourself - you can't drop it off at the local machine shop and pick it up completed later. www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7
You'll need to be able to read a blueprint to know what size holes to cut where and how deep. I used a factory rifle to look at to see what I was doing. You'll need to read a caliper. This is is 110% a firearm and ALL the laws on firearms cover it - you're not going to walk onto an airplane with this! It is a firearm and if you sell it you have to follow your local laws concerning such actions. Here in California that means the required registration. The law allows us hobbiest to make these things for our own use and not as a business, I've interpepted that as I'm never going to sell one of these babies to someone - I wouldn't sell a factory manufactured firearm of mine either, that's just a personal policy. |
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That's only one of the attractions for some people. Many people just like to make their own . The lack of paperwork is secondary.
It's MUCH easier if you have a mill, but you can get by with a drill press and a good set of calipers. The jig that Paul mentioned makes it a breeze, but is not required. Some have done it with a dremel, but it requires a lot of very careful work. Drilling the FCG holes accurately is probably the most difficult without a mill, drill press or the jig. Get the holes wrong and the engagement surfaces won't mate properly. What most people have difficulty with is the drilling and tapping of the buffer tube hole. Without a mill, drill press or jig, it is very difficult to get it straight and level. Get it wrong, and your bolt carrier will bind in the tube. It has been done by hand, so its not impossible. As for materials, you'll need a 3/32" x 6" drill for the bolt catch ($1.50), a 1 1/8 drill bit ($20) and a 1 3/16" x 16 Tap ($55). The other drills that are required are standard sizes. A set of reamers helps with getting the holes sized exactly, but aren't required if you drill carefully. Personally, I won't deal with NOC based on what they did to TanneryShop when its owner asked NOC to handle his business while he was on active duty. |
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No I understand that once built all firearms laws apply, just that you don't need an FFL to get the 80% lower before it's finnished.
Thanks for the detailed description too! Thats really helpful. I notice you said the jig helps with 8 out the 15 holes. What are the other 7 holes and do most people do those by hand? I guess you just apply some kind of bake-on finish once complete? Thanks again for the description and taking time to answer. |
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Actually you CANNOT sell a firearm you built yourself. That would make you a manufacturer and you would need the appropriate FFL. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a7 Mike |
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Not true...read it again. "With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. " You can not make it if you are planning to sell it. It doesn't say you never can sell it, otherwise they would have said "provided it is not sold". Having the intent to sell makes you a manufacturer for which other rules apply. |
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Which of the National Ordnance receivers is this one? Is this the $129.50 "HPS Forged Receiver" or the $115.00 "JFM Forged Receiver"?
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Good post Paul. I talked to the guys at Natinal Ordnance once and they said basically if you can work on your own lawn mower you are more than capable of finishing of their lowers.
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Harbor Frieght - watch their sales as they drop prices quicker than Bill Clinton drops his shorts. |
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I noticed that the trigger guard take down hole is scalloped, did it come that way or did you have to do it on your own with an end mill?
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A scallop is something I eat with my shrimp and lobster ... I haven't touched the AR15plus receivers with a tool - that would be a felony in my state so they camed "scalloped". The completed lower "Genesis" was made in North Carolina where such things are allowed. What's "scalloped" mean? |
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Paul,
It means dished out or concaved, at least it does in New England...where we know scallops and lobsta. |
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HEY GUYS GREAT PICTURES AND INFO
I DO CARRY 80% FORGINGS NOW WILLIAM |
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You're welcome to the pictures if you want to use them. |
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i jsut started workign on my first. I msut say this is addictive.
However, mscdirect had the buffer tap on backorder till february. :-( Anyone know anther source for the buffer tap? |
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I bought mine through Enco for a little under $30. Check the URL below for the part number, they have them in stock.
Enco 1-3/16" x 16 Tap p.s. If you are tapping in a Drill Press or a Mill, the Micro Tap Guide listed below is a great addition. Enco Micro Tap Guide |
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So if you live in Kalifornia you can Finish your own lower and by pass the AWB laws? I may be reading this wrong, but that is was bad ass loop hole
Am I wrong? Jerad |
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Paul,
Does the National lower already have the trigger pocket milled out completely so that the parts drop in? |
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I wish. Nope, it's illegal to finish these in California. |
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Paul i don't imagine u just using those receivers for paper weights
P.S. i would like to hear more about your AR .50 project |
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And yes you do have to mil the FCG and the rear pocket for the take down lug, not that i have finished one before......
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I was thinking about mounting them in a shadow box with a file with a sign that says "break glass in case of government oppression" but that has already happened |
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nice, I will be waiting with u, I have everything but the law to complete mine here in Cali
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Paul,
Thanks for the info and comparison pictures. This is a project I've been considering for a while. CDKayak |
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i got a question can i send my reciever off to get parkerized after its finished or do i have to do it myself.
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sorry pal, you cannot parkerize aluminum
Refinish it yourself with John Norrell's moly resin, best stuff there is and easy to do. |
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Once the firearm is able to shoot it's a firearm and you can do with it what you would do to any other firearm including have it finished. I have a bake on molly treatment purchased from Brownell's. |
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Every time I dismiss this idea of building up an 80% forging, another of these posts comes along and I start panting again.
I may finally succumb and have to dedicate 2005 as the "year of the 80% build". This is what I get for hanging around a bunch of addicts.... |
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WOW! I was feeling a little down in the dumps lately because I somehow managed to 'complete' my collection. I already own EVERYTHING I ever wanted....HK91, AR10, several AR15s, personally customized carry pistols, favorite hunting rifles/shotguns, and top-o-the-line optics. The only accessory I'm still 'needing' on is one of SWS's railed tubes for a DPMS 308. On top of that, my entire collection now runs 100% (THAT took a few years!), leaving me with nothing firearms related to tinker on. Your thread and photo layout just gave me the bump I needed, and I will happily be progressing into a whole new stage of BRD!
THANK YOU! |
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Has anyone considered making a 10 round magazine permantly fixed? How would that be illegal? The Fab-10 is essentially that. The DOJ defines a removable magazine as one that does not require tools for removal. |
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The guy at highcapmagparts.com/byogun.com has a page on how you can build up an 80% lower to be Kalifornia legal, by leaving the spring out of the magazine catch and shimming the catch after you put the mag in. It looks like hell, but appears to be in line with the KA state prohibition of a "removable magazine", in that you have to use tools to get the magazine out:
http://www.byogun.com/ca15.htm He has inventory again, after the Kalifornia DoJ came around and confiscated all his stuff. His story is pretty interesting. I bought his jig, it seems to work pretty well. I'm part way through my first 80% lower, but I'm waiting to get a drill press to drill the firing mechanism holes. The pivot pin, takedown pin, and trigger guard pin holes all came out fine with the DeWalt cordless, in spite of my best efforts to wait on getting a real drill. |
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