I have always told folks not to try handheld lights on weapons citing that they do not have the shock isolated features weapon lights have. With so many people saying how they are using handheld lights successfully, I have broken down somewhat and become more prone to some compromise on the issue. Just tonight I was helping a guy build up a Berette CX4 Storm. A 9mm carbine. He wanted a light but did not want to spend a bunch. He asked if a G2 in 1 1" ring would work. I mentioned to him the risks of putting a handheld light on a carbine but said I think on this low recoil 9mm carbine, it will probably be ok.

Herein lies where I was wrong. It worked for a while, but we were going to turn the lights off for the last two mags to run it in the dark. At the end of what I believe was 100 rounds or lightly loaded 9mm ammo, the bulb was dead. If you've shot these guns you know houw little recoil they have. I though if it would work on anything it would be this. My mistake.

Mount handhelds on your weapons at your own risk. I cant say that I know for sure you will have this problem. As strongly as I feel about it, I have never said that. I just always felt like it was a risk not much worth taking. I wont make the mistake again.

Quoted: I have always told folks not to try handheld lights on weapons citing that they do not have the shock isolated features weapon lights have. With so many people saying how they are using handheld lights successfully, I have broken down somewhat and become more prone to some compromise on the issue. Just tonight I was helping a guy build up a Berette CX4 Storm. A 9mm carbine. He wanted a light but did not want to spend a bunch. He asked if a G2 in 1 1" ring would work. I mentioned to him the risks of putting a handheld light on a carbine but said I think on this low recoil 9mm carbine, it will probably be ok. Herein lies where I was wrong. It worked for a while, but we were going to turn the lights off for the last two mags to run it in the dark. At the end of what I believe was 100 rounds or lightly loaded 9mm ammo, the bulb was dead. If you've shot these guns you know houw little recoil they have. I though if it would work on anything it would be this. My mistake. Mount handhelds on your weapons at your own risk. I cant say that I know for sure you will have this problem. As strongly as I feel about it, I have never said that. I just always felt like it was a risk not much worth taking. I wont make the mistake again.

+1

Those of you that are using NON weaponlights as dedicated weaponlights will eventually learn a lesson (at the worst possible time). If your DEAD SET on using a G2 (or whatever) make sure to get the shock isolated bezel. Spend the extra coin and get the right tool for the job!


C4

www.gandrtactical.com

LED is a tough light and there is no filimant to break, but you compromise on the brightness you cna achieve and the distance the light can be thrown with LEDs.

Cool, another cheap-skate debate thread.  Im just gonna watch

Quoted: Cool, another cheap-skate debate thread.  Im just gonna watch

C4

Quoted: From my observations on my Surefire lights it seems the older (more burn time on the bulb) the weaker it gets. Could age/burn time be a factor on the a Surefire bulb's strength?

You will see a difference with older bulbs. In fact there's even some comments out there that say if you run a light with weak batteries you're hurting the lamp life & performance but that's a discussion I'll leave for 'Size15s' (Al, the Surefire guru) to discuss.

Sadly, there really isn't a surefire () cause for why the lamp failed on new-arguy, it could've been a shock issue, it could've been a bad lamp and if he hasn't double checked it could've also been a shorted battery.  The last two issues are just as plausible as the first, there have been several P60 failures occurring within one change of batteries.  A short time back there were also some issues with SF123A's failing under extended use, the light would work fine but then the next time you went to use it was dead.

Quoted: Brightness?  You can get 65 Lumen LED lights (same as the G2).  Throw?  Maybe not as much (though I wouldn't say that about the X200) but how much do you need for home defense? NAG, I use a G2 with the Z32 on one of my .223 rifles (the 20") and have no issues - heck I didn't have an issue with it using it through FIRE's Carbine 1 and Carbine 2 (which is a night/low light class so the light gets used alot). It could be just one of those 'bad bulbs' or it could be it was a 9mm (vs .223) and the different recoil caused it.  In any case have him spend the $18 and get the Z32 anti shock bezel.

Yeah, brightness, I run P61's in all my 2 cell weapon lights. The LEDs I have seen and used (limited number) are good for a handguns, and the useful range of those lights mimicks the useful ranges you could expect with a handgun. But long guns, even if used primarily for home defense, deserves a light that can throw a beam more in line with the realistic ranges the weapon can be used for...

Sort of like saying just get a shorty barrel with the 5.5" flash suppressor because the rifle is used for home defense. Sure, it will save weight, but if you have to have 16" sticking out in front, make it barrel. I feel the same for a light. If you're going to put a light on a gun, try to make it meet the capabilities of the gun. Otherwise you are cutting yourself and your potential short.

But thats a whole different matter than what Im trying to get at here. The point is using hand helds on weapons. This was a brand new, straight out of the box, never been use,d just cut the sealing tape, G2. It wasnt the batteries, it worked when we mounted it and about halfway through. Somewhere between rounds 50 and 80, the bulb quit. As soon as I put another bulb in the light, it was funtional.

Could it be just a bad bulb? Im sure it "could". Who knows what it was? Using a handheld light that does not protect against the shock of recoil, it "could" be any number of issues? I dont know and thats my primary point. Understanding that NOTHING is 100% and the only gaurantee we get is that there is no guarantee, using a weapons light for a weapon greatly reduces the chances you take. Skip that route and take your chances.

I believe that those who use handheld set ups and say they have done so successfully are a lot like the people who defend Botach Tactical saying they've made a dozen orders without being screwed. My response is always give it time, you'll get screwed. As for me, I put in my last order with them and wont even bother. Likewise, I've put my last handheld light on a weapon. I just cant see a reason to take the chance. If the light is for show, put something that looks the part on and be done, I wont disuade you. If the light is for real, use the light that was built for the job.

I cant ignore the advise of someone like Ken Good who has probably seen more lights used on weapons than any of us here combined. I'll cant forget the time he posted that as a former instructor for the Surefire Institute he had seen countless handheld set ups fail on weapons. Too many for it to just be a coincidence. I would guess he had also seen failures on weaponlights, but he did not say that. A failure here or a failure there can be chalked up to a "fluke" or maybe a "bad bulb". But when you take a light that is not built for the job you are asking it to perform, and it fails in the exact same manner you were warned, I cant view it as a fluke. And when you use a light in that manner, and it works, I'm now more likely to chalk it up to good fortune or luck.

Sorry for going on and on, I'll end with this. I think it was Tatjana who first wrote something I always find fitting for cases such as this. She said something along the lines of... Its not the odds, its the stakes. How true.

Quoted: Quoted: ... She said something along the lines of... Its not the odds, its the stakes. How true. Hehe So true.  I guess that's why I run a 650 on my primary rifle (the only one I use a P61 on) and G2/Z32s with P60s on my other ARs.  However I am continually looking at the LED lights - I'll take durability, reliability, and battery life over a few extra lumens. I think the G2/Z32 setup is fine for entry level - it's as good or better than the TacM3 lights (which have to stop ring or anti-shock cushioning) at a lower cost.

Laser Devices makes a very nice OP-6 in an LED. It is very bright and has a good throw...

C4

Quoted: A lot of guys in the sandbox are running G2s on their weapons without incident.

I've seen this as well and was one of the things that led me to lighten up a little... I guess this first experience was a sign of some sort for me?

Quoted: Quoted: Cool, another cheap-skate debate thread.  Im just gonna watch C4

Yeah, but can you run a G2 light with a Tacpoint on the same gun with reliability?  I just have to know

Id take a G2 on my rifle over no light at all, thats a fact.

Quoted: Quoted: Id take a G2 on my rifle over no light at all, thats a fact. And that is the real issue for some people, Neil. I have friends in some pretty far-flung places who would kill for nothing more than a G2 with shock-isolated bezel mounted on a 5.56 carbine. I have sent a few and they have been well-received, indeed. Are they the equivalent of say, a M962C? Hell no! But these guys have no way to mount such a light anyway. There is no way a hand held will ever really measure up to a serious weaponlight setup...but such is not always in the cards for all of us...and for damned sure, any decent light beats none at all! (The X200 is also a big hit on their new Glocks!)

That's exactly why we have to discuss the G2's, 6P's, etc.  I can't tell you how many times I've had to discuss econo' setups with L.E. & Military personnel all because they're having scrimp to equip their rifles.  I wish I could put a truly weapongrade system in everyones hands but it's just not possible.  There's a lot of comfort for these guys knowing that they don't have to go into certain situations 'blind'.