Does anyone on the boards own one of these? If so, how does it perform? How far away can you see the dot? what's its range? All feedback on this device is appreciated..I am considering purchasing one!

The OTAL uses a low power laser diode which limits daylight range to less than 100 yds. At night, you can see it to about 500 yds. It comes in a sturdy housing that will hold zero under heavy recoil.

Mine is awesome, indoors you can see it forever, at night you can see it for ever, way past 500yards. In bright sunny daylight it becomes difficult to see past 30M and neirly impossible to see on black targets at all. Total CQB tool, thats what it is good for and I do not think you can beat it for that purpose. And it is a sturdy little SOB also, It is reported to last 5 hours on one AA battery. I have had mine for several months and I use it all the time and I have never changed the battery it came with.

That is a good price for ones with the ARMS mount. I am still iffy about any kind of mount with a lever on it though.

Grant,

 What happened to the group buy thread? are we still going forward with it?

is it a red dot or a continuous beam?

It is a continuous red laser. I am not sure of exactly what you are asking, red dot or beam but it has a momentary on pressure switch, and a constant on switch.

You answered it DM1975. I wanted to know if it projected a red dot unto the target or if it was a continuous beam to the target! Not sure if I want to spend the money for something I can only use at night or very low light...Grant's group buy price is quite inticing though!!!

Quoted: You answered it DM1975. I wanted to know if it projected a red dot unto the target or if it was a continuous beam to the target! Not sure if I want to spend the money for something I can only use at night or very low light...Grant's group buy price is quite inticing though!!!

I have never seen a laser for a weapon that projected a beam. I think that this is best for MOUT. The laser is visible in the day but just not the greatest. Could you give an example of a laser for a weapon that produces a visible beam?

Lasers do NOT project a beam.  The whole point of coherent light is to keep all the photons travelling towards the destination, not stray off to be seen.  The only way you are going to get a beam is to shine the laser through a misty/particle filled (like smoke) atmosphere.  What you see then is the laser illuminating each particle that gets in it's way.  If there is no such haze, all you are going to get is an illuminated spot on the target, not the beam bullpuckey you see in the movies.

Incidentally, Laser Devices sell lasers that have different size projected dots - I recommend the larger type for easier identification.

When talking about continuous beams and lasers, it usually refers to pulsating and non-pulsating type lasers.  Pulsating lasers project a dot that flickers on and off.  This does two things - it can help dot acquisition as a flickering dot can be more catchy to the eye, and it saves power by not being on all the time.  It can also help you identify your laser dot from others when multiple lasers are involved.  Some lasers can even be adjusted for pulse rate.

Also, I think the maximum range is much farther than 500 yards.  Using my Surefire L72, I can see the dot at over a mile away if I use binoculars or a spotting scope.  A high quality laser will have a well focused beam that prevents excessive dispersion which limits range.  The flipside is that while you may see the dot at 1000 yards or what-have-you, the trajectory of the bullet will be such that the laser dot will only intersect at two distances dead on and anywhere before or after those spots in distance the dot will be off your point of impact.  The laser is off bore axis in the first place so at closer distances you are going to experience parallax.

Quoted: Lasers do NOT project a beam.  The whole point of coherent light is to keep all the photons travelling towards the destination, not stray off to be seen.  The only way you are going to get a beam is to shine the laser through a misty/particle filled (like smoke) atmosphere.  What you see then is the laser illuminating each particle that gets in it's way.  If there is no such haze, all you are going to get is an illuminated spot on the target, not the beam bullpuckey you see in the movies. Incidentally, Laser Devices sell lasers that have different size projected dots - I recommend the larger type for easier identification. When talking about continuous beams and lasers, it usually refers to pulsating and non-pulsating type lasers.  Pulsating lasers project a dot that flickers on and off.  This does two things - it can help dot acquisition as a flickering dot can be more catchy to the eye, and it saves power by not being on all the time.  It can also help you identify your laser dot from others when multiple lasers are involved.  Some lasers can even be adjusted for pulse rate. Also, I think the maximum range is much farther than 500 yards.  Using my Surefire L72, I can see the dot at over a mile away if I use binoculars or a spotting scope.  A high quality laser will have a well focused beam that prevents excessive dispersion which limits range.  The flipside is that while you may see the dot at 1000 yards or what-have-you, the trajectory of the bullet will be such that the laser dot will only intersect at two distances dead on and anywhere before or after those spots in distance the dot will be off your point of impact.  The laser is off bore axis in the first place so at closer distances you are going to experience parallax.

I was trying to be a bit more graceful about it And yes, mine projects well past 500 yards.

What do you guys use your lasers for? What is the purpose of you getting them?  work, fun, cool factor, ect....

I'm thinking about getting one myself but I really do not have a real need for one. I can get a lot of ammo instead. Just trying to justify the expense.

Another real good thing they can be used for is for reflexive fire in a MOUT/CQB situation. Mine is going back to Iraq with me for this very purpose.

I am thinking about buying an OTAL for CQB and was wondering if anyone who has used the combo of the laser and tactical light (Surefire, etc.) has exerienced washout of the laser by the brightness of a tactical light on the target?

Also, has anyone out there had real-world experience with the OTAL or other laser?  Can you contrast it with other real-world experience you may have had with "red dot" 1x optics (EOTech, Aimpoint, etc.)?  Which did you like better and why?

Thanks!

Quoted: Quoted: Grant,  What happened to the group buy thread? are we still going forward with it? Still going on... C4

How about now?  Still going on?  Any word on when they'll be in?

Quoted: I am thinking about buying an OTAL for CQB and was wondering if anyone who has used the combo of the laser and tactical light (Surefire, etc.) has exerienced washout of the laser by the brightness of a tactical light on the target? Also, has anyone out there had real-world experience with the OTAL or other laser?  Can you contrast it with other real-world experience you may have had with "red dot" 1x optics (EOTech, Aimpoint, etc.)?  Which did you like better and why? Thanks!

I use my OTAL in conjunction with a Surefire M961 and it will not wash out the laser. I have not had the chance to use it real world but I have trained with it alot and used it in CQB and reflexive fire ranges and it worked perfectly. In the bright daylight I preferr my aimpoint but in doors or low vis. the OTAL is the winner to me. It is much quicker target aquisition in CQB than an Aimpoint.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Grant,  What happened to the group buy thread? are we still going forward with it? Still going on... C4 How about now?  Still going on?  Any word on when they'll be in? They are in stock!!! C4

How do I go about getting mine?

Thanks for the imput DM!  Budget permitting the plan was OTAL w/ Surefire for close range with ACOG up top for intermediate and longer ranges.  Do you think this is to much gear for one weapon (too complicated) or does it sound like an ideal solution to you.  Please chop up the idea as you see fit.  Any other suggestions?

Quoted: Thanks for the imput DM!  Budget permitting the plan was OTAL w/ Surefire for close range with ACOG up top for intermediate and longer ranges.  Do you think this is to much gear for one weapon (too complicated) or does it sound like an ideal solution to you.  Please chop up the idea as you see fit.  Any other suggestions?

There is no "ideal" solution, it all boils down to what you are comfortable with. Get good quality gear and train with it and I would figure you would do better with someone with the perfect setup that spent too much time researching gear and not enough time shooting..

Training is a given, at least with me anyway.  Thanks for the insight.  

Quoted: Training is a given, at least with me anyway.  Thanks for the insight.

I am not saying training in general, I am saying training with your equipment.

Understood and agreed.

What would you estimate as the furthest distance you would want to count on your OTAL for in a tactical engagement?  I know the specs, but have not yet spoken with someone who has put hours behind one.

My "ideal" comment had this in mind as I am seeking a smooth transition from one system (OTAL) to the next (ACOG 4x) as distance increases (i.e., little/no gap where it is too far for good engagement with the OTAL, but too close for magnified optics).  The "just try it out" factor is reduced by the cost of research (about $1700 in this case).

I am assuming, DM, that you consistently back yours up with an Aimpoint.  Is this correct and what model?  Any pics? Also, what is your method for tape switch placement with the OTAL/Surefire combo? THANKS!

Has anyone out there used the setup I'm describing????

I'll be out of here until Sunday night so thanks in advance for all commentary!

I personaly use an Aimpoint Comp ML2 on my personal rig, I dont use an ACOG because 1. too much money 2. I do not want a telescopic sight because to me they are too hard to get on target on a target close by or when under fire (JMHO). At work I was using a Comp M but I have since changed weapons systems so no more M16 for me. I run, on my personal weapon a surefire with click on tail cap and a pressure switch for the OTAL. I only use the OTAL for CQB so I don't go to far out in range with it but in low light I would say that you could hit past 100M with it, now I am not saying pinpoint accuracy but you will down the target. . I also run a BUIS in case of a total failure optics wise. Here are some pictures for you, feel free to ask any other questions.

man i cant wait till payday to get mine from grant!!!

with the otal and acog issue i thought that it would be the better combo than the aimpoint and otal, cause you have the otal for close quarters and the acog for the distance.  this is how im going to have mine set up. i have both the aimpoint and acog and decided to put it together with the acog

That sounds cool. Be advised though that the dot is hard to see in daylight. In the shade or indoors it is great.

I'm back.  Thanks again for all the good input DM!  Great job and great pics!

Just got my OTAL from Grant's groupbuy.  Very cool.  How do you guys zero it?  Dead on at 50 yards like an aimpoint?  .5 inches right at 50 yards?  A little closer than 50 yards because the OTAL is lower than the irons?