User Panel
Posted: 3/29/2017 11:15:38 PM EDT
I am just about to order a 14.5 inch Larue Predatobr in 5.56 and was planning on mounting an Eotech EXPS3-4 with a G33 magnifier. I must have been under a rock because I had no idea about all of the Eotech issues until a buddy of mine told me he had sent his back in. Lots of threads on here about those that have had issues and those that have not and maybe they are good to go now, but I am not sure I want to take a chance.
This is going to be my fifth rifle. I've got one running an aimpoint, two with Vortex long range optics and another running a 1-4 scope. I really wanted to go with a holographic site for this rifle with a magnifier. Looking to the community for suggestions. Anybody with Leupold LCO experience? Budget for optic is in the $1,500 ballpark. This rifle will live in a safe when its not out at the range, so not operating in any extreme environments. Perhaps in some 3 gun as well. |
|
|
I'm faster with single-dot reticles (AP, MK6, Z6i, etc.), but those who are faster with the EO style reticle typically still buy and love them. I'd buy whatever helped me shoot better, personally.
|
|
Quoted:
played with them at shot show. Color me impressed. Also it released mid February View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
Quoted:
played with them at shot show. Color me impressed. Also it released mid February View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
|
Quoted:
Unless you have even a slight astigmatism, in which case enjoy your red smudge. Holographic > red dot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
|
So it may be a bit controversial, but the EoTech is still great of most of us. The thermal drift would really only happen in extreme temperatures, and it would only be a few MOA. Now if you live in a very hot or cold place all the time and your life depends on the rifle, maybe it's not a great idea. Otherwise they're still great. I have one that was made in 2006 and it still rocks on every time I take it to the range. Plus it uses AA batteries which is nice.
|
|
I've seen pics of Kyle Lamb with the leupold one on his carbine. He also seems to like the delta point pro. Although he was like doing a commercial for it, but whatever.
I still think an EXPS is a good option. Just make sure it was tested. And really, any RDS is probably best with some BUIS. I've seen reports from people that were in combat zones that have seen aimpoints fail too. None of them are immune. For sure it does seem like the Eotech reports are more. But whatever. For some that's reason enough not to buy. For me, I still want one. I might try to trade my AP PRO for one. Or just get a PA Advanced Micro and save some money. |
|
Quoted:
The Eotech to me looks like a red headed woman with split ends everywhere. It's way worse than a starburst dot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AP PRO plus a AP 3Xc magnifier. Simple is better. Holographic sights OTOH look exactly the same between my right and left eyes. That's a pretty huge plus for me. |
|
Quoted:
So it may be a bit controversial, but the EoTech is still great of most of us. The thermal drift would really only happen in extreme temperatures, and it would only be a few MOA. Now if you live in a very hot or cold place all the time and your life depends on the rifle, maybe it's not a great idea. Otherwise they're still great. I have one that was made in 2006 and it still rocks on every time I take it to the range. Plus it uses AA batteries which is nice. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
You are incorrect. Myself and several other users have preordered them from Optics Planet (Vortex #1 distributor from what they say), and none of us have gotten a shipping email. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
interesting. I have a buddy who said he got one from optics planet. I will have to ask him what model he got View Quote |
|
It's a tough call. I still have an EXPS3 and am very pleased with it and not planning on getting rid of it.
However, the only options I'm aware of for EOTech style circle dot reticle are the Holosun and Sig Romeo. And even though the Holosun has great reviews, I don't think either option is going to be on par with Aimpoint, EOT, or Trijicon. I would go PRO or MRO w/ Aimpoint 3x magnifier. |
|
I might try one of these new sig Romeo that are either a dot or circle
|
|
Quoted:
I might try one of these new sig Romeo that are either a dot or circle View Quote |
|
For a 5th AR that will live in the safe and go to the range, I see no reason not to get an Eotech if that is what you want. Plenty of Special OPs types have run them for decades putting smelly bearded guys in the dirt. I have always liked the Eotech reticle, but went AP for the battery life and increased ruggedness...it is on my HD rifle though.
|
|
Quoted:
So it may be a bit controversial, but the EoTech is still great of most of us. The thermal drift would really only happen in extreme temperatures, and it would only be a few MOA. Now if you live in a very hot or cold place all the time and your life depends on the rifle, maybe it's not a great idea. Otherwise they're still great. I have one that was made in 2006 and it still rocks on every time I take it to the range. Plus it uses AA batteries which is nice. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I discovered my eyes don't like a single dot, but do fine with a circle dot. I've been impressed with the Romeo. Battery life equivalent to an Aimpoint, multiple reticle options and has a "motion" sensor which cuts off the optic when it's not in use. I check it occasionally to see if it comes on and it's never failed. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Whats the inside look like after it's been exposed to ambient humidity for 11 years? Since the "waterproof seals" and "nitrogen purge" don't fucking work per EOTECH. Might as well buy Chinese for half the price at that point, its not waterproof or nitrogen purged either. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
So it may be a bit controversial, but the EoTech is still great of most of us. The thermal drift would really only happen in extreme temperatures, and it would only be a few MOA. Now if you live in a very hot or cold place all the time and your life depends on the rifle, maybe it's not a great idea. Otherwise they're still great. I have one that was made in 2006 and it still rocks on every time I take it to the range. Plus it uses AA batteries which is nice. |
|
Quoted:
This summarizes my dilemma in one post. I heard EOT fixed the waterproof and nitrogen issues, but thermal drift remains. It gets hot in Alabama, so I'll be drifting in the pool when it gets too damn hot to shoot. View Quote |
|
I retained my EOTech, so I think my plan is to mount it on a G36, which everyone also hates, then go win 3-gun matches with it.
I also have astigmatism, and like the holographic reticle for this reason. I replaced it with a MRO, which is very nice. |
|
Avoid the LCO its total garbage. If you manage to find one that actually isn't counterfeit it suffers severe parallax and is very inconsistent. Stick with eotech exps I ripped my LCO off to replace with an eotech exps.
|
|
Any word on Elcan HCO? Last comment I saw on threads was a redesign in October of last year.
|
|
Quoted:
This summarizes my dilemma in one post. I heard EOT fixed the waterproof and nitrogen issues, but thermal drift remains. It gets hot in Alabama, so I'll be drifting in the pool when it gets too damn hot to shoot. View Quote |
|
I went through much the same deal recently on a new build. I decided to take a chance on a Halosun HS515BU. You hear lots a shit, pro and con, but I decided to take a chance and try one out for myself. I wanted a light weight sight, with a EOTech-style reticle. I like the "pipper" gun sight. I think it's extremely fast for a rifle set up for CQB. So I think getting a micro sight with a circle-dot reticle is the optimum choice. Now you have all these detractors saying this is just Chinese junk. Well, I don't think so. These sights have been making steady improvements over the years. I decided it's time to try one. Why pay for the EOTech? Or even the Aimpoint? How many guys really need the mil-spec for their typical use? If an optic will stand up to normal use, including occasional bumps, hot/cold, and rainstorms, then I'm down with it. Some of these guys act like they're gonna do a HALO or SCUBA insertion next week. Call of Duty don't count.
I have it mounted now and am just testing it out, including woodland patrols in the Carolinas. So far, I love it. We shall see. |
|
Quoted:
I went through much the same deal recently on a new build. I decided to take a chance on a Halosun HS515BU. You hear lots a shit, pro and con, but I decided to take a chance and try one out for myself. I wanted a light weight sight, with a EOTech-style reticle. I like the "pipper" gun sight. I think it's extremely fast for a rifle set up for CQB. So I think getting a micro sight with a circle-dot reticle is the optimum choice. Now you have all these detractors saying this is just Chinese junk. Well, I don't think so. These sights have been making steady improvements over the years. I decided it's time to try one. Why pay for the EOTech? Or even the Aimpoint? How many guys really need the mil-spec for their typical use? If an optic will stand up to normal use, including occasional bumps, hot/cold, and rainstorms, then I'm down with it. Some of these guys act like they're gonna do a HALO or SCUBA insertion next week. Call of Duty don't count. I have it mounted now and am just testing it out, including woodland patrols in the Carolinas. So far, I love it. We shall see. View Quote I won't risk it on Holosun their temperature of operation bottoms out at something like 20 degrees. May as well buy used Aimpoint at the price they're asking if it won't work for a more optimal temperature of use. |
|
Quoted:
I won't risk it on Holosun their temperature of operation bottoms out at something like 20 degrees. May as well buy used Aimpoint at the price they're asking if it won't work for a more optimal temperature of use. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I went through much the same deal recently on a new build. I decided to take a chance on a Halosun HS515BU. You hear lots a shit, pro and con, but I decided to take a chance and try one out for myself. I wanted a light weight sight, with a EOTech-style reticle. I like the "pipper" gun sight. I think it's extremely fast for a rifle set up for CQB. So I think getting a micro sight with a circle-dot reticle is the optimum choice. Now you have all these detractors saying this is just Chinese junk. Well, I don't think so. These sights have been making steady improvements over the years. I decided it's time to try one. Why pay for the EOTech? Or even the Aimpoint? How many guys really need the mil-spec for their typical use? If an optic will stand up to normal use, including occasional bumps, hot/cold, and rainstorms, then I'm down with it. Some of these guys act like they're gonna do a HALO or SCUBA insertion next week. Call of Duty don't count. I have it mounted now and am just testing it out, including woodland patrols in the Carolinas. So far, I love it. We shall see. I won't risk it on Holosun their temperature of operation bottoms out at something like 20 degrees. May as well buy used Aimpoint at the price they're asking if it won't work for a more optimal temperature of use. |
|
Quoted:
My main problem is the reticle. My eyes just don't like a dot. I own Aimpoint, Trijicon, Primary Arms, and had two eotechs. I'm prob better with irons than the red dot (maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but close). The eotech reticle is just great, I wish more companies would try and make something like that. The new Vortex Huey reticle looks intriguing, but the size of that thing looks pretty darn big from the videos - though I'll hold judgement until I've tried one. I'm considering picking up a used eotech off the EE. Sold my 512 and returned my xps 2 due to issues. But may give them another shot through a used purchase. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I preordered the Vortex Holo, it's weight is only about the same as a 55x series Eotech it does look long but IIRC Vortexs site says it's only 3 inches and they claim that their magnifier and a BUIS can fit behind it. I've always been an Aimpoint guy. My only experience with the eotech reticle is an old Bushnell holo sight (Gen 1) that I bought years ago and used for a couple range trips before it promptly stopped working. I've always wanted to try the actual Eotech sights and right around the time I was on a financial position to be able to buy one of the nice CR123 models, the huge drifting issue came out. Extreme temps being a concern of mine living up here I figured it best not to risk it. View Quote What I'm curious to see, is the data from LPV's like the Nightforce 1-4, Leupold MK6/8, and Razor HD II 1-6, etc. |
|
Quoted:
I preordered the Vortex Holo, it's weight is only about the same as a 55x series Eotech it does look long but IIRC Vortexs site says it's only 3 inches and they claim that their magnifier and a BUIS can fit behind it. I've always been an Aimpoint guy. My only experience with the eotech reticle is an old Bushnell holo sight (Gen 1) that I bought years ago and used for a couple range trips before it promptly stopped working. I've always wanted to try the actual Eotech sights and right around the time I was on a financial position to be able to buy one of the nice CR123 models, the huge drifting issue came out. Extreme temps being a concern of mine living up here I figured it best not to risk it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
My main problem is the reticle. My eyes just don't like a dot. I own Aimpoint, Trijicon, Primary Arms, and had two eotechs. I'm prob better with irons than the red dot (maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but close). The eotech reticle is just great, I wish more companies would try and make something like that. The new Vortex Huey reticle looks intriguing, but the size of that thing looks pretty darn big from the videos - though I'll hold judgement until I've tried one. I'm considering picking up a used eotech off the EE. Sold my 512 and returned my xps 2 due to issues. But may give them another shot through a used purchase. I live in Texas so it can get hot. The 512 I had never had any issues, I just sold it cause I picked up a XPS2. I used that optic for a couple years as my main in carbine classes and general range play. After about 3 years I noticed that it wouldn't hold zero. I wound up returning it during the refund as I had stopped using it and moved on to an Aimpoint. But I honestly just do not like single dots. I guess it stands to reason that my issues with the XPS could have been due to the 115 degree summer, moving it out of my house into that temp is a pretty big shift in ambient temperature. But I couldn't even get it to hold zero for a full range session towards the end so may have been something beyond that. The first couple years with it were great, really loved it. You think the preorders will really ship soon? Midway USA was showing a 4/7 date on their site. |
|
Quoted:
Sounds reasonable. That weight on the Huey isn't bad at all. Color me even more intrigued : ) I live in Texas so it can get hot. The 512 I had never had any issues, I just sold it cause I picked up a XPS2. I used that optic for a couple years as my main in carbine classes and general range play. After about 3 years I noticed that it wouldn't hold zero. I wound up returning it during the refund as I had stopped using it and moved on to an Aimpoint. But I honestly just do not like single dots. I guess it stands to reason that my issues with the XPS could have been due to the 115 degree summer, moving it out of my house into that temp is a pretty big shift in ambient temperature. But I couldn't even get it to hold zero for a full range session towards the end so may have been something beyond that. The first couple years with it were great, really loved it. You think the preorders will really ship soon? Midway USA was showing a 4/7 date on their site. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
I won't risk it on Holosun their temperature of operation bottoms out at something like 20 degrees. May as well buy used Aimpoint at the price they're asking if it won't work for a more optimal temperature of use. View Quote Only time will tell how it holds up. My only real concern are the stock mounts. But a quick change to a Larue or ADM, should be GTG. |
|
Quoted:
This summarizes my dilemma in one post. I heard EOT fixed the waterproof and nitrogen issues, but thermal drift remains. It gets hot in Alabama, so I'll be drifting in the pool when it gets too damn hot to shoot. View Quote They may have fixed their problem, but if I'm giving them $500.......I don't want to worry about what else they aren't telling me. I've moved to Vortex, Steiner, and P.A. for optics. They hit where I'm aiming, and I bought them all for 7/10 of what 2 eotechs cost. Do I like them while shooting as much as I liked the EOtech's big open window? No, not really. But it's not like I'm really bothered by them either......and honestly, I've not babied a single one of them. I haven't thrown them down the driveway or drug them behind my truck on a string.....but those rifles aren't safe queens, and for what I was looking for, they are serving my uses to my satisfaction. And I got 1000 rounds more of practice for free, essentially. |
|
Eotech 123A is still better than anything else of the type. Biggest problem, other than the company's crap ethics, is that their buyback prevented the secondary price market from cratering. I'd love to own 5 of these at $200 a pop.
I run the 123A version in Alaska. No POI shift from -15 to about 80 degrees. Guys here with H1s have been having issues with the dots washing out in very cold temperatures. FWIW, other than a blue tint and tiny viewing area, the Sig RomeoM hasn't yet had any issues. |
|
Quoted:
Eotech 123A is still better than anything else of the type. Biggest problem, other than the company's crap ethics, is that their buyback prevented the secondary price market from cratering. I'd love to own 5 of these at $200 a pop. I run the 123A version in Alaska. No POI shift from -15 to about 80 degrees. Guys here with H1s have been having issues with the dots washing out in very cold temperatures. FWIW, other than a blue tint and tiny viewing area, the Sig RomeoM hasn't yet had any issues. View Quote |
|
Interesting observations. Have you noticed any issues with lights in extreme temps? Surefire or Streamlight? Battery drains things like that? As for the Eotechs up that way, in the extreme cold how do the batteries hold up?
|
|
I kept my 553A65BLK made in 2007.
I normally shoot in temps between 50f and 90f. No friggin' way am I shooting in -40f. I don't think it even gets that cold in California. And while Death Valley may get up to 130f in August, you won't find me outdoors when the temp gets above 100f. I have to say, this craziness about getting a refund is going a little overboard. And if I ever use it for self defense, it will be either inside the house or on the property and the range will be less than 50 feet. Thermal drift is just not an issue for me. |
|
I'm sending my 2006 manufactured EOTech 512 back for a refund, but I really want to try a new EXPS2. I like the field of view of the EOTech, and even though I have astigmatism the reticle never bothered me. At least with the EXPS2 I won't have to worry about battery leakage like I have with the 512. I did have to replace the little black rubber things in the battery compartment once because the batteries leaked.
Out of all the complaints about the EOTech I've heard, I've never heard anyone else say that their sight didn't sit level when mounted on the gun. My 512 sits a little bit off to one side and that's always bothered me. At first I thought it was the rail that was out of spec but it isn't. |
|
Quoted:
I'm sending my 2006 manufactured EOTech 512 back for a refund, but I really want to try a new EXPS2. I like the field of view of the EOTech, and even though I have astigmatism the reticle never bothered me. At least with the EXPS2 I won't have to worry about battery leakage like I have with the 512. I did have to replace the little black rubber things in the battery compartment once because the batteries leaked. Out of all the complaints about the EOTech I've heard, I've never heard anyone else say that their sight didn't sit level when mounted on the gun. My 512 sits a little bit off to one side and that's always bothered me. At first I thought it was the rail that was out of spec but it isn't. View Quote I guess I'm not "operator" enough to have had any issues. |
|
Quoted:
I have an EXPS2-0 and will keep it. I guess I'm not "operator" enough to have had any issues. View Quote I sound like a broken record in these threads, but everyone who says their eotechs "work great" in these eotech discussions focuses on the thermal shift at extreme temps issue and ignores the fact that the fucking things aren't nitrogen purged, air tight sealed, or fucking waterproof as advertised. If I'm buying an optic that's supposed to be all those things for $500+, why the fuck would I be willing to accept something any where close to that price for something that isn't ANY of those things? Last year I had 5 Eotechs. 4 went back, the 5th I forgot to ship it back after getting the RMA. If I can find the time during business hours to call EOtech this week and see if they'll still take it, it'll be going back also. |
|
Quoted:
This summarizes my dilemma in one post. I heard EOT fixed the waterproof and nitrogen issues, but thermal drift remains. It gets hot in Alabama, so I'll be drifting in the pool when it gets too damn hot to shoot. View Quote Some just don't advertise that. |
|
Quoted:
According to the lawsuit/Eotech's own admission , at the time of the suit they hadn't figured out how to seal the optics, after having made them for 10+ years. I have no faith they figured it out in the last 12 months. The odds are much higher they're lying since that's a know indisputable fact. View Quote http://www.afcea.org/content/?q=Blog-l-3-support-awacs-flight-crew-training-system There. That's a $38M USD contract. Noone even talked about it. Because it's routine for L3. It's a drop in their bucket. Just like the $25-ish M USD that they paid out for the Eotech issue. The tax write-off, as it were. Here's another little $500M USD dribble in their bucket. https://news.clearancejobs.com/2016/10/28/l-3-communications-awarded-army-satellite-communications-contract-dod-daily-contracts/ I'm betting somehow, some way, they can probably figure out some method of sealing a rifle sight to 66ft submersion depth. Just a hunch. |
|
Quoted:
If they can seal the saucer on the AWACS, I bet they can seal the Eotech. You are talking about the division of a company that likely makes more revenue than every site sponsor on here combined. http://www.afcea.org/content/?q=Blog-l-3-support-awacs-flight-crew-training-system There. That's a $38M USD contract. Noone even talked about it. Because it's routine for L3. It's a drop in their bucket. Just like the $25-ish M USD that they paid out for the Eotech issue. The tax write-off, as it were. Here's another little $500M USD dribble in their bucket. https://news.clearancejobs.com/2016/10/28/l-3-communications-awarded-army-satellite-communications-contract-dod-daily-contracts/ I'm betting somehow, some way, they can probably figure out some method of sealing a rifle sight to 66ft submersion depth. Just a hunch. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
According to the lawsuit/Eotech's own admission , at the time of the suit they hadn't figured out how to seal the optics, after having made them for 10+ years. I have no faith they figured it out in the last 12 months. The odds are much higher they're lying since that's a know indisputable fact. http://www.afcea.org/content/?q=Blog-l-3-support-awacs-flight-crew-training-system There. That's a $38M USD contract. Noone even talked about it. Because it's routine for L3. It's a drop in their bucket. Just like the $25-ish M USD that they paid out for the Eotech issue. The tax write-off, as it were. Here's another little $500M USD dribble in their bucket. https://news.clearancejobs.com/2016/10/28/l-3-communications-awarded-army-satellite-communications-contract-dod-daily-contracts/ I'm betting somehow, some way, they can probably figure out some method of sealing a rifle sight to 66ft submersion depth. Just a hunch. |
|
Quoted:
I think this gets lost on people. You hear plenty of talk about EOTech going out of business from this, and you're just like... really? That's like thinking Raytheon's going to go out of business because someone found a flaw on the SpecterDR. Aimpoint or Trijicon have a major SNAFU, the company might go TU. EOTech or Elcan get totally shuttered, it's a tax writeoff for L3 or Raytheon. Dealing with totally different animals. View Quote |
|
I put a steiner MRS on a SP5k... Would also work on a AR
http://www.steiner-optics.com/battle-sights/micro-reflex-sight-mrs |
|
Quoted:
I put a HS515BU on my MP5 and love it. The Aimpoint like battery life, the dot/circle dot switchable option, the motion-on....It's a great combinaction of features not found anywhere else. https://www.rebelarms.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/s/xhshs515bu_1_1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.2XTWct-1BU.jpg View Quote Seriously though, good budget optic. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.