Throw lever tension on LaRue ACOG mount

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Throw lever tension on LaRue ACOG mount

Posted: 1/6/2006 9:26:21 PM EDT

I just received my LaRue ACOG mount today. I installed the ACOG on it using the screws/blue loctite supplied with the mount.

I was wondering how much adjustable tension should be applied to the levers when clamping them down.

Is there a "rule of thumb?" Thanks.

God bless,
David

Posted: 1/6/2006 10:30:58 PM EDT

[#1]

i set mine pretty tight. they don't come off unless you really use your fingers.

Over time they will make nice marks in the receiver down to the bare aluminum (GASP!!

). Consider the marks a good thing because the LaRue mounts are the best QD mounts out there.

Posted: 1/6/2006 11:02:44 PM EDT

[#2]

On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Posted: 1/6/2006 11:21:52 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Was there a statement in this article about torque/tension for the throw levers?

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/6/2006 11:34:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Was there a statement in this article about torque/tension for the throw levers?

God Bless,
David

Yes. "Adjustable" throw levers were universally condemned (not by brand name) as being unnacceptable because they can come loose in the field.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm not sure what torque/tension issues you were asking about. ARMS or the competition?

Wes

Posted: 1/7/2006 12:15:27 AM EDT

[#5]

I think I understand what you're saying. I didn't realize that ARMS levers weren't adjustable for tension.

Back to the original question, does anybody have a rule of thumb for how much tension is preferred for the LaRue ACOG mount? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/7/2006 2:40:45 AM EDT

[#6]

Though I do not have any problems with my various ARMS mounts, I too now prefer the Larue.

I tension the Larue throw levers to the point where you can't get the mount to slide back and forth on the picatinney rail when the lever(s) are engaged. Some of them are real tight but will not harm the rail unless it is way out of spec. Just tighten the nut incrementally until you reach that point.

I once had a genuine A2 AUG. The detachable rail definitely was not in spec. I could not get the ARMS 19S to close on it, and the Larue ended up putting a little indentation at the point of contact. I had to back the tensioning nut on the Larue further out than I've had to on any AR platform and did not feel comfortable with this arrangement. I ended up using the TA-51 mount for my ACOG instead.

Posted: 1/7/2006 3:43:26 AM EDT

[#7]

Straight from Mark at Larue..."they should hurt your thumbs when trying to close them."

How's that for a rule of thumb?

Posted: 1/7/2006 8:28:33 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Straight from Mark at Larue..."they should hurt your thumbs when trying to close them."

How's that for a rule of thumb?

That certainly would be a rule of thumb.

I guess I need to start tightening those screws. Does everybody crank them down that tight?

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/7/2006 10:57:38 AM EDT

[#9]

instructions are also located at laruetactical.com

Posted: 1/7/2006 11:40:59 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

What is funny, is that before LT came along ARMS NEVER advertised in Shotgun News. Guess they are feeling the pressure.

C4

Posted: 1/7/2006 11:45:01 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I just received my LaRue ACOG mount today. I installed the ACOG on it using the screws/blue loctite supplied with the mount.

I was wondering how much adjustable tension should be applied to the levers when clamping them down.

Is there a "rule of thumb?" Thanks.

God bless,
David

The color of yoru finger should change color as you open the lever.

After you think you have it tight enough, open and close the lever several times (5-10). Then grab the mount and see if you can move it forward and back. If the mount moves, tighten the lever some more and go through the above steps agains.

C4

www.GRTactical.com

Posted: 1/7/2006 11:53:17 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
instructions are also located at laruetactical.com

Unless I'm missing something (it's been known to happen

), the instructions on the website don't address tension/torque 'value'.

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/7/2006 12:58:16 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
instructions are also located at laruetactical.com

Unless I'm missing something (it's been known to happen ), the instructions on the website don't address tension/torque 'value'.

God Bless,
David

Don't get caught up in a specific torque value. Just tighten the nut until the mount no longer slides back and forth. Some of my mounts do not require as much force to open and close than the others, but none of them move when mounted. That is what you should be looking for.

Posted: 1/7/2006 2:55:01 PM EDT

[#14]

My ACOG mount is nice and tight on my bushy upper. When I switched it over to a RRA upper it went on very loose when I closed the throw levers. You could open them without any force at all.

I guess all uppers are not created equal as well. Anyway it stays on the bushy anyway.

Posted: 1/7/2006 10:16:15 PM EDT

[#15]

Ok, so the LaRue mount should be tight enough so that the ACOG doesn't slide back and forth (even though the movement is almost indiscernible). That’s a good standard to use.

I guess my last question is should the ACOG be pushed toward the front or the back of the upper (even though the movement is very minimal) before the throw levers are clamped down? Or does is not matter as long as the tension on the levers is tight enough so the ACOG doesn't move? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/8/2006 5:15:04 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Ok, so the LaRue mount should be tight enough so that the ACOG doesn't slide back and forth (even though the movement is almost indiscernible). That’s a good standard to use.

I guess my last question is should the ACOG be pushed toward the front or the back of the upper (even though the movement is very minimal) before the throw levers are clamped down? Or does is not matter as long as the tension on the levers is tight enough so the ACOG doesn't move? Thanks.

God Bless,
David

Push it forward and then close the lever.

C4

Posted: 1/8/2006 7:38:08 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Why do you feel the need to post that same remark in threads dealing with LT? You are talking about an ARMS ad. This thread, and the last one, has nothing to do with ARMS.

Posted: 1/8/2006 10:46:34 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
My ACOG mount is nice and tight on my bushy upper. When I switched it over to a RRA upper it went on very loose when I closed the throw levers. You could open them without any force at all.

I guess all uppers are not created equal as well. Anyway it stays on the bushy anyway.

This point brought up by jackal2001 disproves the "one tension for all" theory of ARMS regarding throw levers. The tension of the lever WILL change when you move a mount between uppers/rails. You may have a mount that you can move between different uppers/rails and the tension may be pretty close but it probably will not be optimal, IMO. A fixed tension lever has no provision for dealing with this.

Posted: 1/8/2006 3:38:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Why do you feel the need to post that same remark in threads dealing with LT? You are talking about an ARMS ad. This thread, and the last one, has nothing to do with ARMS.

Satan made me do it.

Posted: 1/9/2006 5:04:38 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

What is funny, is that before LT came along ARMS NEVER advertised in Shotgun News. Guess they are feeling the pressure.

C4

You must be a new subscriber. They've advertised in shotgun news for as long as I can remember. I ordered my first #19 mount through one of their ads in shotgun news in the mid 90's....

Posted: 1/9/2006 5:47:12 PM EDT

[#21]

Well, this has been informative. It really has. I've got my LaRue cranked down and nothing is moving, etc.

However, I had to crank the throw levers so much before the mount would stop moving on the rail that for all intents and purposes, my Larue mount is no longer a "quick detach" mount.

It probably takes me just as much time to throw the levers as it does to unscrew the nuts on the factory mount that came with the ACOG.

I'm wondering what advantage(s) the LaRue mount has over the factory ACOG mount that would justify the money spent?

I guess the main advantage of the larue is a repeatable zero, that, and it looks better than the factory mount, but I don't know why the factory mount wouldn't have a repeatable zero if taken off and installed again. Plus, there is no possibility of the factory mount creating 'unusual wear' spots in the upper as reported in this thread by some who use the throw lever kind.

God Bless,
David

Posted: 1/9/2006 5:55:29 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

What is funny, is that before LT came along ARMS NEVER advertised in Shotgun News. Guess they are feeling the pressure.

C4

You must be a new subscriber. They've advertised in shotgun news for as long as I can remember. I ordered my first #19 mount through one of their ads in shotgun news in the mid 90's....

That info was courtesy of an SN sales person.

C4

Posted: 1/9/2006 5:59:45 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Well, this has been informative. It really has. I've got my LaRue cranked down and nothing is moving, etc.

However, I had to crank the throw levers so much before the mount would stop moving on the rail that for all intents and purposes, my Larue mount is no longer a "quick detach" mount.

It probably takes me just as much time to throw the levers as it does to unscrew the nuts on the factory mount that came with the ACOG.

I'm wondering what advantage(s) the LaRue mount has over the factory ACOG mount that would justify the money spent?

I guess the main advantage of the larue is a repeatable zero, that, and it looks better than the factory mount, but I don't know why the factory mount wouldn't have a repeatable zero if taken off and installed again. Plus, there is no possibility of the factory mount creating 'unusual wear' spots in the upper as reported in this thread by some who use the throw lever kind.

God Bless,
David

First, if you PROPERLY tightened down the screw on the factory mount you need a tool to undue it every time (as hand tight doesn't cut it). This DQ's it as a QD mount. For a knob to repeat zero, you would have to paint witness marks on the mount and knob and try to return to the same position every time (again with a tool). There is NO gurantee that this would work.

Just as an FYI, ANY mount that is properly tightened down will leave marks.

C4

Posted: 1/9/2006 6:07:47 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

That info was courtesy of an SN sales person.

C4

I guess thats the quality of information you get when you put too much stock in salesmen.

Posted: 1/9/2006 6:16:51 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
First, if you PROPERLY tightened down the screw on the factory mount you need a tool to undue it every time (as hand tight doesn't cut it). This DQ's it as a QD mount. For a knob to repeat zero, you would have to paint witness marks on the mount and knob and try to return to the same position every time (again with a tool). There is NO gurantee that this would work.

Just as an FYI, ANY mount that is properly tightened down will leave marks.

C4

Interesting. Thank you, I didn't realize this.

God bless,
David

Posted: 1/9/2006 6:28:27 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:

That info was courtesy of an SN sales person.

C4

I guess thats the quality of information you get when you put too much stock in salesmen.

Their statement might very well have been true for all I know. ARMS might have dropped their advertising on SGN for the last 10 years and just picked it back up.

C4

Posted: 1/9/2006 6:29:46 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
First, if you PROPERLY tightened down the screw on the factory mount you need a tool to undue it every time (as hand tight doesn't cut it). This DQ's it as a QD mount. For a knob to repeat zero, you would have to paint witness marks on the mount and knob and try to return to the same position every time (again with a tool). There is NO gurantee that this would work.

Just as an FYI, ANY mount that is properly tightened down will leave marks.

C4

Interesting. Thank you, I didn't realize this.

God bless,
David

No problem. As long as you can open and close a lever without tools and it holds zero, it is a QD mount. Once you add tools into the equation then it isn't.

C4

Posted: 1/9/2006 8:17:39 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
On Page 1 of the latest Shotgun news ARMS took out a full page ad touting the advantages of their throw lever system.

No joke, the only picture in the whole ad is the throw lever by itself just sitting there, and a bunch of reasons why it and it alone is the only system trusted by the Industry.

Was there a statement in this article about torque/tension for the throw levers?

God Bless,
David

Yes. "Adjustable" throw levers were universally condemned (not by brand name) as being unnacceptable because they can come loose in the field.

EDITED TO ADD: I'm not sure what torque/tension issues you were asking about. ARMS or the competition?

Wes

AyeGuy- I'm not directing this towards you really, but I wonder why ARMS didn't mention that screws on BUIS's like to also come loose in the field (leading to their loss), or that MIM throw levers like to break in the field too. Of course, no one likes to point out their own products' weaknesses.

Back to the thread's original question. Mark emailed me and told me to crank it until you almost need a tool to close it. He even stopped watching the Texas game to answer my question. Good service.

Posted: 1/9/2006 10:10:19 PM EDT

[#29]

I'm surprised we haven't heard of Larue mounts breaking with guys tensioning them that tight.

I thought tension should be similar to ARMS mount tension on new products. Any tighter and I was thinking you'ld be risking bending or breaking the levers.

Posted: 1/10/2006 5:18:18 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I'm surprised we haven't heard of Larue mounts breaking with guys tensioning them that tight.

I thought tension should be similar to ARMS mount tension on new products. Any tighter and I was thinking you'ld be risking bending or breaking the levers.

Generally speaking, the part on the ARMS mounts that break are the MIM levers. The LT levers are solid billet SS.

C4

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Throw lever tension on LaRue ACOG mount

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