US Optics SN4 vs. TA31F

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - US Optics SN4 vs. TA31F

Posted: 8/1/2005 9:24:11 AM EDT

Assuming both are the same price, which one would you get? I do most of my shooting within 100 yds. but will start extending my reach to 300-400 yds. This will be mounted on a 14.5 inch M4 flattop. I know very little about USO other than they are very high quality and built like tanks. I'm a little weary about the weight of the USO but since it's my patrol rifle, I guess I don't have to worry about lugging it everywhere I go as it will spend most of it's time in the trunk. My main concern is with the magnification. When it gets turned to the highest power, won't the light transmission suffer greatly? I work at night so a dark scope is pretty useless to me.
BTW, the reticle on the USO will be a circle/dot. Thanks.

Posted: 8/1/2005 10:32:35 AM EDT

[#1]

Before handling C4iGrants US Optics SN4 a few weeks ago I would have automatically suggested the ACOG. Now I'm not so sure. The 1x option and crisp reticule of the SN4 would give it a clear advantage over the ACOG at close range in my humble opinion. I had problems getting used to the ACOG's BAC at close range. I’ve owned both the TA31 and TA31F. That being said, I watched ARFCOM team member Dport shoot high score at my last Blackwater class using a TA31. My friend David96Z is damn handy with his TA31. It seems to be a very personal decision. Maybe I just didn't give the ACOG enough time. I certainly shot enough rounds with it, but in the end it just wasn't for me. I'm leaning towards variable power optics now.

Edit to add:
In the end it always comes down the shooter. Pick the one that you feel fits your needs the best, train with it constantly and they will both serve you well.

Posted: 8/1/2005 10:56:25 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Assuming both are the same price, which one would you get? I do most of my shooting within 100 yds. but will start extending my reach to 300-400 yds. This will be mounted on a 14.5 inch M4 flattop. I know very little about USO other than they are very high quality and built like tanks. I'm a little weary about the weight of the USO but since it's my patrol rifle, I guess I don't have to worry about lugging it everywhere I go as it will spend most of it's time in the trunk. My main concern is with the magnification. When it gets turned to the highest power, won't the light transmission suffer greatly? I work at night so a dark scope is pretty useless to me.
BTW, the reticle on the USO will be a circle/dot. Thanks.

I have a US OPTICS SN4 in a LaRue Tactical SPR mount. I would NOT trade it for ANY ACOG.

C4

www.GRTactical.com

Posted: 8/1/2005 11:19:26 AM EDT

[#3]

The SN4 reticle when lit max in daytime is still dim, unlike the ACOG which is super brain-grabbing bright.

-z

Posted: 8/1/2005 1:46:37 PM EDT

[#4]

While an ACOG retical is very bright during the day I find them overly bright in very low light or low light and dense fog. With no way to dim the ret, it has been a challange at times.

To me it also has to do with weight. I do not know what an SN 4 weighs, but I'll bet it is more than an ACOG. To me they are also built with a different task in mind - an ACOG - get hits fast . An SN4 get precise hits as quickly as possible. I like the adj turrets, but I don't see my 5.56's in that light. Nor have I encountered a stage that required a greater level of accuracy than what I am able to attain with an ACOG.

YMMV

Good luck

Posted: 8/1/2005 2:14:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
The SN4 reticle when lit max in daytime is still dim, unlike the ACOG which is super brain-grabbing bright.

-z

This is true, but have not found it to be an issue.

C4

Posted: 8/1/2005 7:02:08 PM EDT

[#6]

While an ACOG retical is very bright during the day I find them overly bright in very low light or low light and dense fog. With no way to dim the ret, it has been a challange at times.

Yes, if the scope itself is in bright light, the donut/chevron/triangle/rubber chicken/whatever reticle piece gets so damned optically "loud" that it drowns out the target.

I've found that highly scientific, mil-spec electrical tape over the fiber optic works pretty well as a dimming rheostat. Some of the guys have rigged up rubber inner tube-derived gizmos to fulfil this same function. Crude but effective. And, no batteries.

Posted: 8/1/2005 7:34:55 PM EDT

[#7]

Guy who shoots with us has the SN4 with a circle dot. I was excited to get to see it on a gun and much closer than I had been able to at shot show etc. Another guy who has a TA31 and I checked it out and both agreed that the glass was great, but that the reticle was way too dim for our liking. For overall use, we felt the smaller, lighter ACOG, with the brighter and more useful reticle was more to our liking.

All the variable power, battery powered scopes suffer from poorly lit reticles, this makes using the BAC more difficult, not impossible, but more difficult for sure. The one exception to this I have seen is the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot scope. It has a mildot reticle with a bright, Aimpoint like, dot in the center crosshair. Aside from it costing around $2000, I think I really love that scope. I will really have to try and get one.

Posted: 8/1/2005 7:45:17 PM EDT

[#8]

We sell the SN-4 and I have a hard time seeing it on a 14.5 - 16in AR but is see guys doing it all the time. I like the SN-4 but I still love my ACOG. For and 18" to 20" are I think it would be great. The SN-4 is a little to heavy for my taste. They are very clear, very strong, and very reliable.

alou if you would like a USO I will give you a good deal on one. Just let me know what you would like on it and I will get it for you. You will not see them on our website.

www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]
Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks

Posted: 8/1/2005 7:53:46 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I've found that highly scientific, mil-spec electrical tape over the fiber optic works pretty well as a dimming rheostat. Some of the guys have rigged up rubber inner tube-derived gizmos to fulfil this same function. Crude but effective. And, no batteries.

Besides getting a Larue mount, this is the second most important thing to do to your TA31/11:

[ link to LARGER image ]

Dialing down the reticle brightness helps dramatically at longer range engagements.

Posted: 8/2/2005 3:21:59 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Guy who shoots with us has the SN4 with a circle dot. I was excited to get to see it on a gun and much closer than I had been able to at shot show etc. Another guy who has a TA31 and I checked it out and both agreed that the glass was great, but that the reticle was way too dim for our liking. For overall use, we felt the smaller, lighter ACOG, with the brighter and more useful reticle was more to our liking.

All the variable power, battery powered scopes suffer from poorly lit reticles, this makes using the BAC more difficult, not impossible, but more difficult for sure. The one exception to this I have seen is the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot scope. It has a mildot reticle with a bright, Aimpoint like, dot in the center crosshair. Aside from it costing around $2000, I think I really love that scope. I will really have to try and get one.

My main reason for going with the SN-4 was because I wanted 1X capability. This to me negates the ACOG's BAC capability for CQB. Flexibility is everything to me.

C4

Posted: 8/2/2005 3:28:06 AM EDT

[#11]

i like the chevron/circle reticle of the uso and think that would be more precise even only at 4x and fast with the big circle surrounding the chev.

the only thing keeping me from getting one is the price and the fact that i have a few acogs already. but i did see that bigbore has one up for sale in the ee for a really good price.

Posted: 8/2/2005 4:38:29 AM EDT

[#12]

C4iGrant, why did you choose the chevron reticle? For more accuracy at longer ranges? Do you find it to be "noisy" at 1x for CQB? And what exactly is the Posa-Slide mount? It comes with the rings right? Thanks.

Posted: 8/2/2005 8:52:13 AM EDT

[#13]

NEW USO CQB

USMC Circle Chevron

www.csgunworks.com
[email protected]
Here’s some testimonials about CS GunWorks for AR15 Board
What do YOU have to say about CS GunWorks

Posted: 8/2/2005 8:55:27 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
i like the chevron/circle reticle of the uso and think that would be more precise even only at 4x and fast with the big circle surrounding the chev.

the only thing keeping me from getting one is the price and the fact that i have a few acogs already. but i did see that bigbore has one up for sale in the ee for a really good price.

This is the model I have. I get the speed of the circle with the accuracy of the Chevron.

C4

Posted: 8/2/2005 8:57:28 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
C4iGrant, why did you choose the chevron reticle? For more accuracy at longer ranges? Do you find it to be "noisy" at 1x for CQB? And what exactly is the Posa-Slide mount? It comes with the rings right? Thanks.

Acurracy is why I chose the Chevron model. The outer circle is perfect for CQB and don't find it "noisy." The Posa-Slide mount is their cantilever mount for the SN-4. The SN-4 does NOT come with it.

C4

Posted: 8/2/2005 11:45:30 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I've found that highly scientific, mil-spec electrical tape over the fiber optic works pretty well as a dimming rheostat. Some of the guys have rigged up rubber inner tube-derived gizmos to fulfil this same function. Crude but effective. And, no batteries.

Besides getting a Larue mount, this is the second most important thing to do to your TA31/11:
apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/M4-96D/small/167_6778_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]

Dialing down the reticle brightness helps dramatically at longer range engagements.

Is that a bike innertube?

Posted: 8/2/2005 12:12:55 PM EDT

[#17]

C4iGrant, I noticed that you also have an IOR M2. Since that's the only scope I have now, can you tell me how the SN-4 compares at 4x in terms of clarity and light transmission? Thanks.

Posted: 8/2/2005 12:53:35 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Is that a bike innertube?

Yes

Posted: 8/2/2005 3:34:14 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
C4iGrant, I noticed that you also have an IOR M2. Since that's the only scope I have now, can you tell me how the SN-4 compares at 4x in terms of clarity and light transmission? Thanks.

I don't have an IOR M2.

C4

Posted: 8/2/2005 5:55:23 PM EDT

[#20]

Zak;

Can you slide that inner tube back and forth to adjust the reticle brightness?

I can adjust the brightness pretty readily with my electicians' tape. However, reliability of the system is less than perfect; what with wind, movement, the occaisional bee stuck in the sticky part of the tape.......

Posted: 8/2/2005 7:13:28 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Can you slide that inner tube back and forth to adjust the reticle brightness?

I can adjust the brightness pretty readily with my electicians' tape. However, reliability of the system is less than perfect; what with wind, movement, the occaisional bee stuck in the sticky part of the tape.......

YES! That's the beauty of it.

About 1" back from the end, it is as bright as it gets with the entire fiber optic open.
I used to use tape too. This is way better, but a bitch to get on the first time without ripping the tube.

-z

Posted: 8/3/2005 3:53:13 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you slide that inner tube back and forth to adjust the reticle brightness?

I can adjust the brightness pretty readily with my electicians' tape. However, reliability of the system is less than perfect; what with wind, movement, the occaisional bee stuck in the sticky part of the tape.......

YES! That's the beauty of it.

About 1" back from the end, it is as bright as it gets with the entire fiber optic open.
I used to use tape too. This is way better, but a bitch to get on the first time without ripping the tube.

-z

wondering how the hell is that possible?

the acog has a built in mount/base attatchment and isnt a tube design like traditional scopes so how did you get an inner tube "around" the acog?

keep looking at the pic and am dumbfounded!

side pics?

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:12:43 AM EDT

[#23]

Slit the tube down the middle, leaving the ends connected.

Loop one end around the rear of the ACOG, loop the other end over the objective lens.

Posted: 8/3/2005 4:18:00 AM EDT

[#24]

The SN-4 is a great optic, but it's way too heavy.

Posted: 8/3/2005 5:43:55 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Can you slide that inner tube back and forth to adjust the reticle brightness?

I can adjust the brightness pretty readily with my electicians' tape. However, reliability of the system is less than perfect; what with wind, movement, the occaisional bee stuck in the sticky part of the tape.......

YES! That's the beauty of it.

About 1" back from the end, it is as bright as it gets with the entire fiber optic open.
I used to use tape too. This is way better, but a bitch to get on the first time without ripping the tube.

-z

wondering how the hell is that possible?

the acog has a built in mount/base attatchment and isnt a tube design like traditional scopes so how did you get an inner tube "around" the acog?

keep looking at the pic and am dumbfounded!

side pics?

side pic
apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/AR10-Sunset/?medium=141_4160_img.jpg