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Posted: 10/24/2004 8:45:32 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't believe there is any A2 style forward grips that can be removed easily unless you use a rail system.
Here's the two closest options that I would suggest. 1. If you're going for ease of removal, perhaps buy an inexpensive GG&G rail for your forearm, and attach a Bushmaster A2 style forward grip. 2. If you don't like the rail idea and would be willing to sacrifice easy removal, then try a barrel mounted A2 style grip. |
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Posted: 10/24/2004 10:21:17 PM EDT
[#2]
i forgot to add that i really want it to be mounted to the handguards and not teh barrel....
the reason is because i want the pistol grip back by teh mag well where it is comfortable for me.... i usually use the front of teh magwell as a holding point on my carbine ar's when i go to shooting comps, and i figured it was about time to actually get a real grip |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:24:58 AM EDT
[#3]
It is really hard to mount a VG onto standard HG's. You have very limited options. You also mention that you don't want a railed forend because of the weight. I just thought I would let you know that standard HG and Delta Rings are around 7 ounces. The Daniel Defense FF rails systems is around 8.9 ounces. Not much weight difference there and you would be FF your barrel and have 4 rails for mounting whatever you want... C4 www.gandrtactical.com |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:46:46 AM EDT
[#4]
ARMS make a QD forward pistol grip that uses the A2 type grip and it is also reversible to an AKM style wich I like very much.
Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:58:55 AM EDT
[#5]
grandnational007, I would think long and hard about going with the VG that 3rdtk mentioned. I don't believe that the throw lever is strong enough to withstand a lot of pressure (muzzle strikes and such). On another forum, a guy asked a question about the SureFire M900A being suitable for combat applications. A SureFire Military sales rep responded by saying yest the M900A is suitable, but would recommend going with the M910A model as it has two thumb screws and is more up to the task...
C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:06:13 AM EDT
[#6]
A lot of people in combat want a QD grip, because if they get hung up in brush or something, they can release in a hurry. I know for a fact that Shurefire supply a lot of the ARMS throw levers to military contracts that specify those levers on that light, by the thousands.
Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:17:44 AM EDT
[#7]
No doubt that the ARMS throw levers are in use by the Military. Sometimes, the Military doesn't know what it is asking for!  For some good reading on the M900A, SF M73 and thoughts of people like Pat Rogers on ARMS throw levers: www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001599;p=1 People can make their own conclusions.... C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:37:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Par Rogers probably doesn't make any money from ARMS military issue items, but probably does from certain other things he does recomend. I think that the military know a slight more than patty.LOL
Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:46:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Now this is REALLY getting good! So your telling me that the Yoda with the carbine is biased against ARMS because he gets a kick back from some other company??? If I am not mistaken Mr. Rogers has a lot of involvement with SF community and believe that he is a man of integrity (unlike yourself that hides behind a fake screen name and pushes ARMS products)... C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:06:31 AM EDT
[#10]
That is a blatent slander Jack. Making up things about respected individuals with ZERO evidence is something I expect of Democrats and politicians in general. You should remove that comment and apologize to the man in question. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:13:05 AM EDT
[#11]
I don't mean to contradict my man Grant, however. As a SYSTEM (handguards, barrel nut, endcap etc). The standard rifle handguards weight 11.5 oz, the DD 12.0 is 13.1 oz. The Daniels Defense only adds 1.6oz. With the carbine its 7.5oz for the CAR handguards, and 8.5 for the DD7.0 only 1oz gain. (BTW the M4 handguards weight 8.9 oz...). Making the Daniels Defense the best choice for one looking to keep weight down.
While possible, it's not recommended (they won't take any punishment) Buy the GG&G UFIR or the Cav-Arms scout rail to attach to the bottom of the handguard. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:19:29 AM EDT
[#12]
On the contrary, Pat seems to come up with things that the military obviously do not agree with, because the US military buy ARMS products that he doesn't like. Pat seems to think he can attack companys at will, and without anyone that disagree's should not respond. He has never designed or produced a thing in his life, so why is he an expert? He is just another gun writer, but he also seems to make up things that are very questionable, by many people. I'm not hidding anything, but I do give easily verifiable facts, and he doesn't.
Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:20:07 AM EDT
[#13]
 and the downward spiral continues...
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:28:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Thank you for correcting my weights Forest. I did them off the top of my head... C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:29:24 AM EDT
[#15]
The military also seems to like those 'silent slings' but I'd hardly say they were the best would you? However if you look at what the 'high speed' units buy and what their soldiers will buy with their own money.
Of course he can 'attack' any product - it's called CRITISCISM - it's the type of feedback manufacturers should be listening to. It helps improve the product for the needs of the user/purchaser. BTW where has he ever posted you shouldn't respond - libelous statements (such as you have made) are never welcome - but statements backed by hard data are never frowned upon.
I know this isn't true because I have a product in my 'gear box' that he did have a part in designing.
Because he's a BTDT kind of guy, who routinely works with the guys 'at the tip of the spear'.
Ah yes one of the most experienced carbine trainers, a guy who teaches Force Recon Marines how to fight with carbines, a Marine with combat experience, and a former member of NYPD's SBU. Yeah he's just another 'Gun Writer' with no practical experience .We know his credentials to comment on a product - what are yours? |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:39:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Your options are mutually exclusive. Decide which is more important. A2 Grip Cost Ease of Attachement. The easiest method would be to add the GG&G UFIR (or similar rail) to the lower handguard and add the ARMS pistol grip. Assuming this is a rnage gun not a duty gun --> Failing the above suggestion get an extra handguard and screw a A2 grip into it - then change lower handguard when you want to. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:40:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Of all the moronic statements 3rdtk has made over the past few years, this one takes the cake. 
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:40:49 AM EDT
[#18]
I don't think that I said that Mr. Rogers tells the ENTIRE Military what to buy! I said that he does work closely with some folks in the SF community. If by "attack" you mean disagree with or not like a companies products then I would say that Mr. Rogers is guilty as charged. I don't like ARMS throw levers because I personally think there is a better design out there. Do you think I just attacked ARMS? To say the Mr. Rogers is "just another gun writer" is way off the mark. Most gun writers that I have read don't have his background and or knowledge on gear. You also say that he "makes up things" that questionable by "many people." I am guessing that those "many people" is actually just Dick S.! Lets see, you ONLY push ARMS products and try to discredit ANY OTHER manufacturer that competes directly with ARMS. You won't say who you work for and or where you work, but you seem to KNOW A LOT about ARMS products, court cases and patents. Yes I know that a lot of these items are public record, but your the only one that seems to know them. Why would someone with ZERO affiliation with ARMS (as you claim) want to know all that info? I am an ARMS dealer and make money off the sale of their products and I have ZERO interest in any of the BS... C4 P.S. Want proof that 3rdtk only pushes ARMS products???? www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=207928 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=207899 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=207792 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=207654 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=207595 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=207554 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=207456 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=204307 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=207067 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206803 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206968 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206832 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206374 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=205078 www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=205768 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 9:05:02 AM EDT
[#19]
I don't give a darn what product Jack pushes - if he likes somthing and want to tell us all about it's benefits that's just peachy. I often enjoy his posts.
However when Jacks makes innuendo and slanderous statemetns that Pi$$es me off and has NO place in a discussion of any product. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 9:06:11 AM EDT
[#20]
What problem are you having w/ the magwell grip that a VFG will be a solution for? (No, this is not a rhetorical question.) |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 9:14:39 AM EDT
[#21]
I don't know about the orginal posted but I found 3 issues. 3) Comfort - the VFG is more comfortable as I can get my hand around it. 2) Light Operation - from a VFG I can operate my light with my thumb and I don't need the wires of the pressure switch. 1) HEAT. Fire enought rounds and even the magazine well gets pretty hot. This is never an issue with a Polymere VFG. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 10:04:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Do you have ANY proof of that whatsoever? No? I didn't think so. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 12:00:04 PM EDT
[#23]
+1 C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 12:16:18 PM EDT
[#24]
What problem are you having w/ the magwell grip that a VFG will be a solution for? (No, this is not a rhetorical question.) i just want something thats really sturdy and a little forward of the mag well.... the arms #23 seems to be my solution tho |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 12:20:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Not unless you mount a rail system - for none of the handguard rail attachments will be solid. You will need a good quality rail system it you want this... |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 1:11:27 PM EDT
[#26]
This is true. I guess you also missed the all reading about the ARMS throw levers not being a good choice on a VG as they have weak contact points... C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 2:42:34 PM EDT
[#27]
You're a disgusting, lying POS, Dick/Jack. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 2:48:37 PM EDT
[#28]
LOL, no mistake there! C4 |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 4:05:26 PM EDT
[#29]
What the heck does a VFG mount have to do with Optics!!
 (sorry guys.. somebody had to)As to Pat Rogers. I had the honor to take his class and hang with him and learrn some great shit. He's a Marine so he don't need this Dog face to defend him. Jack, when you start teaching something firearms related...let me know. I'll be the first to sign up
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Posted: 10/25/2004 4:45:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Oh yes, rants of a desperate man! What’s wrong Jack/Dick, can't handle the fact that ARMS products are becoming passé and ARMS is loosing the lions share of the market? |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:28:59 PM EDT
[#32]
WELL THEN SIRS, THANKS FOR STEALING MY TOPIC TO HAVE A FLAME WAR OVER RAIL SYSTEMS OR WHATEVER........TALK ABOUT FUCKING GEEKS
anyways...... all i am looking for, is a forward pistol grip, preferably styled like a factory a2 grip, that could easily and inexpensively be mounted to my handguards right in front of the magwell..... so, does anyone have ideas/suggestions or maybe even some pics of what they have? |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 5:33:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Well... you could start by posting this in the Slings and acccessories forum instead of Optics and start reading . a lot of good info ya lazy ass!!!
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:07:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Define 'inexpensively' as the A2 type foreward grip Bushy sells is $40 plus add in another $40 or so for a add-on rail (which will not have any real strength).
Several of us have made suggestions - it's up to you to read them. Pics of what they have?  We run railed handguards because we want them to work all the time. (Yes I've tried the cheaper solutions - they are cheaper for a reason).
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:11:08 PM EDT
[#35]
You can lead a horse... I gave you a few options and my recommendations for what you wanted as did others. It is your money... Honestly I think you will be happier buying a RAS or FF rail and a handle - best bet go to a few shops and look at what they have - better yet go to a AR friendly range and see what the shooters their have. -Kevin |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 6:42:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Lets see, the man asked about somone that makes a forward A2 pistol grip, I respond that ARMS does and that I like it bacwards in the forward AKM position. THEN chimes in the above promoter of other things with a negative BS on anything ARMS makes, this time a pistol grip that fits the bill of the question the man asked. To give himself support, he leads everyone to another forum that has a buddy of his trashing with more BS, and not even related to the pistol grip question we start with. Mc grubs and VA Dinger, are just as bad as C4Grant in not being able to stand the facts, and just can't stay away from attacking anyone that has somthing to say that they don't like. 3rdtk have never started a thread on this sight or any other, period, only an honest response to a quetion. However C4 has started one after another to promote any product he sells. There are many many many 3rdtk responses that have nothing to do with ARMS products, but these less than objective folks won't list those, but can if they want to. I'd say that they are the lieing POS!!!!!!!! Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:15:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Ok, I just went to search on that Patent office web. and guess what, no Patents listing PATS name on anything ever Patented. I guess the mysterious valuble thing in your gear box must still be a secret.  I'm sure we would all run out and buy it sinces he designed it. I give facts that are verifiable, and some others continue to make up more BS.If you certain few don't like somone elses views on a question, recomend a viable alternative, not instagating a response to your BS. Jack |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:49:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Note every product produced is patented - just ask Eagle Blackhawk rips off their stuff all the time.
Nope, but you have to go to an Eagle dealer to buy it. Funny thing is I didn't even know Pat was involved with the mag pouch until I went to a class and they asked me if I bought it because it was Pat's design. If you certain few don't like somone elses views on a question, recomend a viable alternative, Viable alternatives were recomended - and done so without trying to soil anyone's reputation. Mud slinging is not facts. |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 7:54:55 PM EDT
[#39]
What the fuck have you invented, besides a lot of hot air on the internet??? |
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Posted: 10/25/2004 8:54:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Umm, how about YOU staying away from attacking Pat because he says things that YOU don't like about ARMS products?  Nope, no double standard there......Pot...meet Kettle! Kettle....meet POT..... |
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Posted: 10/26/2004 4:21:09 AM EDT
[#41]
3rdtk,
If you need something to fill up your spare time, I hear that Tereza Heinz Kerry needs a spokesman. I think you would be a good fit with her style. |
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Posted: 10/26/2004 4:38:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Howdy Jack! The poster that started the thread did as ask about a an A2 style vertical grip. You responded in your traditional manner (supporting ONLY ARMS). I then commented that this grip is not a good choice because of the weak contract point the ARMS throw lever gives you. I then backed it up with a link to the Tactical Forums where a lot of respected (that is the opposite of you) shooters hang out. They had after action reports of the M900A coming off due to the ARMS throw lever breaking or malfunctioning. You also see on there where the Military sales rep for Surefire clearly states that if someone wants a vertical grip and light combo to go with the M910A series (as it uses two thumb screws). You comment about Mr. Rogers being my buddy couldn't be farther from the truth. I wish to be so lucky as to call him my buddy. I am pretty sure that he doesn't even know that I exist! Year to date I have exchanged 3 e-mail's and 2 IM's. All of those were about finding a source for some Colt parts (as I couldn't find what I was looking for). Incase you hadn't noticed, I am a paying dealer on this board. This means that I can post on new gear (that I sell or don't sell). When you retire, you can get that job with ARMS and then you can FORMALLY post on here about the all virtues of ARMS products as an official rep for them! You blabber on about only posting the truth and we are all liars and such. If you think telling everyone that the ARMS SIR is the best rail system on the market or better yet that the ARMS throw lever is the best lever on the market, then you are not telling the truth at all. You are actually giving people FALSE information as far as I and many others on here are concerned. The real truth is that you REALLY like ARMS products and think they are the best. Now I have seen many people personally attached to the products they buy because they spent their hard earned money on it and don't want to find out that what they actually bought was junk. Your case is something different though. I think your a Friend of Dick (FOD) and are doing his will simply to line up a job in the future. This is pretty sad and I hope more people see through your BS and realize the truth.... C4 |
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Posted: 10/26/2004 5:44:24 AM EDT
[#43]
Are these the 'verifiable facts' of which you speak? Please provide any proof that you have regarding Pat Rogers' alledged kickbacks from gear makers for his endorsements. I don't give a rip if you're a big fan of ARMS products and endorse them for any and all applications. What I find intolerable is the baseless, slanderous accusations leveled against a respected member of the firearms training community. Pat Rogers has forgotten more about using tactical equipment than you will ever know in your miserable, vile little life. Your rock is calling. Go get back under it, loser. |
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Posted: 10/26/2004 5:49:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Well now: I think that gets a ? +10? 
Umm, why are you referring to YOURSELF in the third person, Jack? I'm sure I'm not the only one that noticed that. Is it perhaps because '3rdtk' is in fact a community account used by multiple person, and you made a Freudian slip on us? Or, Multiple Personality Disorder maybe? Just so you don't dick it up the future you SHOULD say "There are many many many response from ME that have nothing to do with ARMS products". Hope that helps 
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Posted: 10/26/2004 6:20:01 AM EDT
[#45]
We know the 3rdtk society has more than one member and they (at least one of them) has admitted this in the past...
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Posted: 10/28/2004 7:01:18 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 10/28/2004 8:54:41 AM EDT
[#47]
I have the tdi avg it has heavy finger grooves and is well made,I love it.
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:05:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Check your PM over at LF, please. |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:24:16 AM EDT
[#49]
I just got the memo about "that" person being formally "checked" out and wasn't trying to say that it is the same person at all, you just took it that way.... C4 |
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Posted: 10/28/2004 9:38:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Yeah, I must have just miss understood. I must have just read a little too much into it. 
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