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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:50:37 AM EDT
From Wes at MSTN:
A NEW MODEL, DESIGNED TO SIT QUITE LOW, UNDER THE OCULAR LENS OF A SCOPE, HAS BEEN PROTOTYPED BY ARMS. IT IS DESIGNATED THE #40-L. I HAD PERSONALLY HOPED IT WOULD BE CALLED THE #40-MSTN. DREAMS ARE FREE, RIGHT? BUT AT LEAST I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO SAW A NEED FOR SUCH A SIGHT. THIS NEW REAR SIGHT WHEN STOWED ONLY SITS 0.600" ABOVE THE FLAT TOP. THIS IS ONLY 0.140" HIGHER THAN AN ARMS RAIL AS ENCOUNTERED ON THE ARMS #38 SPR RAIL OR ARMS SIR SERIES. THE ARMS #40 REAR SIGHT IS 0.950" WHEN STOWED, BY CONTRAST. THE #40 STD A2 IS 1.05". THE #40-L SHOULD FIT UNDER ANYTHING ANY BUIS CAN POSSIBLY FIT UNDER. WAIT UNTIL YOU GET A LOAD OF THE WAY THE SMALL AND LARGE APERTURE SIGHTS ARE HANDLED BY ARMS ON THIS. THEY ARE NOT ARRANGED AS ONE MIGHT EXPECT, IN AN "L" PROFILE LIKE THE #40 STD A2. IF THEY WERE, THE SIGHT WOULD HAVE TO BE HIGHER WHEN STOWED. NO, THE APERTURES ARE STOWED BACK-TO-BACK, MORE OR LESS COAXIAL, SUSPENDED FROM THE SAME WINDAGE ADJUSTMENT SCREW. WHEN YOU FLIP THE SIGHT UP, YOU SEE THE SMALL APERTURE TO THE REAR. ROTATE IT AFT 90 DEGREES, ENGAGING A VERY CLEVER AND POSITIVE BALL LOCK DETENT, AND YOU EXPOSE THE LARGE APERTURE. THE WINGAGE KNOB IS MINIATURIZED, BEING ONLY 7/16" OR SO IN DIAMETER, 3/16" THICK. IT IS LOCATED ON THE LEFT SIDE WHERE (I REALLY THINK) THE WINDAGE KNOB SHOULD LIVE, GIVEN THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF SHOOTERS ARE RIGHT HANDED, ACCESSIBLE BY THE LEFT HAND. THE #40-L UNIT I HAVE HERE HAS THE 0-200 LARGE APERTURE AND THE 300 SMALL APERTURE. HOWEVER, SAME PLANE APERTURES WILL ALSO BE AVAILABLE. NO INFO ON PRICE. I CAN GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL HAVE TO COST MORE THAN THE #40.       Posting these for Wes. Came off a flyer it looks like, so they arent the best, but you get the idea  |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 10:12:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Am I understanding you to say that when deployed it will alway initially be set to the small aperture and then you must flip it down to reveal the large aperture? If so that's not good for am emergency sight.
Kris |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 11:25:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Replace it with the orignal #40 (cut) aperature and there you go.
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Posted: 12/21/2003 11:37:07 AM EDT
[#3]
With the small apperature stowed foreward.
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Posted: 12/21/2003 12:30:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Can't wait to hit the EE and score an "obsolete" non-L #40 [:D]
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Posted: 12/21/2003 2:15:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Its about time.
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Posted: 12/21/2003 2:53:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Defaults to the small aperture? Thank goodness. That saves me shelling out another $100.
I'm safe until they figure out how to make the large aperture appear first. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 3:43:37 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm sure this sight was designed for a certain weapon system. More than likely, an "SPR" type intended for longer range engagements. Therefore, in the event of a scope failure, the user would have the appropriate back up sight deployed first to carry out the mission.
Mark |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 4:02:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Can't wait to hit the EE and score an "obsolete" non-L #40 [:D] LOL , yeah.[:p] Everytime I see one of these MSTN posts with the [b]BIG LETTERS[/b] I get a Funny Feelin on the right side of my Butt [BD] |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 4:15:27 PM EDT
[#9]
I have noticed that some of the BUIS don't have any CQB aperture ability, just one small .070 peep. It apears that 40L solves that, by the small aperture in the 40L riding in between the CQB aperature and can be removed by unscrewing the lg. aperture from the thread just enough to slip out the small aperture and putting in a same plane or use no small aperture at all, and only using a the CQB peep.
Good Shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:09:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Will there be a tritium version? Will the old standard aperatures fit? How much less does it weigh?
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:20:19 PM EDT
[#11]
From Wes at MSTN: NO INFO ON PRICE. I CAN GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL HAVE TO COST MORE THAN THE #40 I don't get it. Why does it HAVE to cost more? If anything it ought to cost LESS since it's smaller/less substantial. I like it, but if it really costs more then I'll be one of the guys cruising the EE to pick up a used #40A once the #40L hits the street..... |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:27:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I have noticed that some of the BUIS don't have any CQB aperture ability, just one small .070 peep. It apears that 40L solves that, by the small aperture in the 40L riding in between the CQB aperature and can be removed by unscrewing the lg. aperture from the thread just enough to slip out the small aperture and putting in a same plane or use no small aperture at all, and only using a the CQB peep. Good Shootin, Jack Thats an interesting idea. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:28:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Wow! This looks great!
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:35:05 PM EDT
[#14]
[B]I don't get it. Why does it HAVE to cost more? If anything it ought to cost LESS since it's smaller/less substantial. I like it, but if it really costs more then I'll be one of the guys cruising the EE to pick up a used #40A once the #40L hits the street.....[/B]
Did you ever see the Andy Rooney skit on this issue? He actually was talking about low fat foods, etc. costing more than the real stuff. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:40:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Its really quite simple.
A non-off the shelf apperature and a windage knob thats different from the rest of their line. Theres your price increase. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:42:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Looking at the photo, I don't see how you would be able to put a standard aperture in there as the A2 flat spring is wider than the housing. I also think it would be self defeating as the old standard type would stick way up in the air even if it could go in, which I doubt. It looks to me that it's a pretty modular set up, very low for special sniper needs, dual apertures at the flip of a finger, easy to convert to CQB only,but I can't see that being realy a actual prevalent need.
If the cost is kept down, then that would be great too, but we wait and see. It isn't cheap for any company to make special high volume tooling for apertures, etc. It looks like they obviously have a dif. size hold down lever, windage knob size and prob a dif. size aperture spring. Jack |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:46:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Wow, just thought of something. If I got one of these, I will probably be able to put the Butler Creek caps back over the M3 scope. Mounted in the position I like the scope, the #40 I have on there now gets in the way of the cap flipping up. I'll be getting one of these!!!
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:50:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Neil, or you could just get a KAC 600m [0:)]
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=17975[/img] |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 7:58:38 PM EDT
[#19]
I like the 600 meter too, but if there is a chance that I might need a back up for CQB work, then I want to be able get at a CQB aperature. I wish one of these companies could come out with a sight for all accasions, SFAA?
Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:04:45 PM EDT
[#20]
I have a 600 meter, but it does not fit behind my ARMS SPR rail... If it did I would have put it on there.
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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:04:49 PM EDT
[#21]
SFAO! Sight for all occasions, I can see that I'm tired, going to bed!
Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:16:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Neil,
Seen - I'd just dremel it 3rdtk with the demise of the SIMRAD I have been able to toss a DR Optic up on the TRR on my #35 - so I have an OSS (OH SHIT SIGHT[:D]) If I need it. |
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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:24:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Well, I guess if I finally got the nuts to spray paint a $2k+ rifle, I guess I can dremel a close to $200 BUIS. But you know me, I like to have one of everything and then try to break it. So I will probably get the #40L.
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Posted: 12/21/2003 8:58:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I have noticed that some of the BUIS don't have any CQB aperture ability, just one small .070 peep. It apears that 40L solves that, by the small aperture in the 40L riding in between the CQB aperature and can be removed by unscrewing the lg. aperture from the thread just enough to slip out the small aperture and putting in a same plane or use no small aperture at all, and only using a the CQB peep. Good Shootin, Jack Yes. That is why I'm a big fan of the versatility, easy peep transition of the ARMS #40/A2. For those bringing up issues of having to flip the smaller apeture down to access the larger ap, Let's keep in mind the 40 L is designed for a weapon with a scoped optic. Medium-L. Range SPR type platform. I would'nt drop it down on my Aimpoint equipped M4. But it would be Great for an SPR build. I like the concept of both apetures moving on the same adjustment screw and folding into each other. It would be helpful to see some kind of "finger nail indentation" in between the two, not unlike that of a lock back knife, to speed the process of flipping down the small ap. It appears to sit very low(kinda like a cut in half #40) and would be even lower in conjunction with a Swan sleeve or SIR rail. It appears VERY small, the design is familiar and the concept is as always, sound. I really like the 40L and I'm in the market for one when I start my SPR build. edited to add new thoughts and I just can't spell sometimes. |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 6:21:40 AM EDT
[#25]
WES
IronB makes a good point, how fast or easy is it to pull the small aperture down to go the the CQB aperture? Is there something for the finger to grab? Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 6:57:44 AM EDT
[#26]
THE 300-METER SMALL PEEP APERTURE SITS SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THE 0-200 METER APERTURE. THIS PROVIDES AN ADEQUATE PURCHASE TO ROLL THE SMALL APERTURE AFT TO THE STOWED POSITION.
SUCH WOULD NOT BE THE CASE WITH A SAME PLANE APERTURE. LET'S TRY TO KEEP TWO THINGS IN MIND WHEN DISCUSSING THIS SIGHT: 1. THE #40-L IS DESIGNED FOR SPR APPLICATION, I.E., IT IS A BACK-UP IRON SIGHT FOR A PRECISION WEAPON, NOT NECESSARILY DESIGNED FOR CQB APPLICATION. THE END USER MAY WELL PREFER THE SMALL APERTURE. 2. WHILE IT MIGHT BE NICE TO TELEPATHICALLY HAVE WHATEVER APERTURE ONE MIGHT WANT INSTANTLY AVAILABLE, KEEP IN MIND THAT EVEN BEFORE THE SUCH A SIGHT CAN BE DEPLOYED ON AN SPR, THE SHOOTER HAS TO GO THROUGH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONKEY MOTION TO GET THE DAMN SCOPE OFF FIRST. IF YOU'RE THE TYPE WHO'S ALWAYS IN A HURRY TO GET ROUNDS ON TARGET - FIRST! - I SUGGEST YOU CONSIDER TWO COURSES OF ACTION: 1. GET A DR OPTIC LIKE KEVIN B. FOR THE TOP OF YOUR SCOPE. 2. GO SHOOT AT CLAY PIGEONS WITH TRACERS UNTIL YOU LEARN TO POINT SHOOT THE WEAPON. OK, I KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS TO SHOOT RIFLES UP INTO THE AIR, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU LIVE IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY, WHERE, APPARENTLY, BASIC RULES OF SAFE GUN HANDLING DO NOT APPLY. WE AIN'T PASS SHOOTING. THE BIRDS ARE THROWN FLAT, LEVEL. AND WE HAVE A NICE HILL FOR AN IMPACT AREA. EVERY NOW AND THEN, ONE GETS HIT, TOO. WES |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 7:08:58 AM EDT
[#27]
That makes sense, any pic's? If that aperture flips as fast as the one in the M16A2 and #40, then it is also a good CQB, dual purpose, not just SPR I would think. Trouble with the other folders other than the 40's is it is either one or the other aperture, I like having two for the price of one, for all occasions:) What are these going to cost though?
Very good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 7:37:45 AM EDT
[#28]
[b]I'm sure this sight was designed for a certain weapon system. More than likely, an "SPR" type intended for longer range engagements. Therefore, in the event of a scope failure, the user would have the appropriate back up sight deployed first to carry out the mission.[/b]
[b]LET'S TRY TO KEEP TWO THINGS IN MIND WHEN DISCUSSING THIS SIGHT: 1. THE #40-L IS DESIGNED FOR SPR APPLICATION, I.E., IT IS A BACK-UP IRON SIGHT FOR A PRECISION WEAPON, NOT NECESSARILY DESIGNED FOR CQB APPLICATION. THE END USER MAY WELL PREFER THE SMALL APERTURE.[/b] [thinking] |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 8:14:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: THE 300-METER SMALL PEEP APERTURE SITS SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN THE 0-200 METER APERTURE. THIS PROVIDES AN ADEQUATE PURCHASE TO ROLL THE SMALL APERTURE AFT TO THE STOWED POSITION. SUCH WOULD NOT BE THE CASE WITH A SAME PLANE APERTURE. WES Roger that. ARMS definetly has their heads on straight. |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 7:57:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Orignally Posted by IronB:
For those bringing up issues of having to flip the smaller apeture down to access the larger ap, Let's keep in mind the 40 L is designed for a weapon with a scoped optic. Medium-L. Range SPR type platform. I would'nt drop it down on my Aimpoint equipped M4. But it would be Great for an SPR build. _______________________________ Good advise! I think it is pretty clear what purpose this BUIS is to serve. A EOTech or Aimpoint does not sit over the #40 or #40A so if I guy has one of these I don't know why he would want the #40L?! Not only do I want one of these but this is one of the few things that I need. I just hope that it stays around $150 or so. Also I hope that it comes out in a reasonable amount of time, not like some of their products that was announced at last years SHOT show that still has not hit the shelves yet. But some how I do think this little booger will be out soon because of the NEED for it. |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 8:02:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I have asked WES what the pricing is, but no answer yet. GUYS, Help me bug him.:)
Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 8:09:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Hey WES, what is the cost and avaiability of the 40L?????????????????????????????.?
Question, why couldn't the same plane aperture be able to also roll down for easy access just like their standard one, some how? Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 9:22:37 PM EDT
[#33]
ARMS hasn't released a price yet, so no luck. Bt I'm sure Wes will be the 1st when a price is set for release. And the sights are not ready for shipment, but, they are also not far off, they are in the production stage, not the design stage.
/S2 ed. for sp. |
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Posted: 12/22/2003 9:23:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Sorry to hi-jack here but is there not a #40 that defaults to the CQB sight? I didn't know they all had the small hole first? Sorry for lack of terminology. Oh and Wes how much will it cost? (I was told to ask that)
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Posted: 12/22/2003 10:14:38 PM EDT
[#35]
The only reason I brought up the issue of the small aperture coming up first was to see if I could get a rise out of 3rdtk. I don't know what is going on with him but he sure is taking the fun out of criticizing ARMS products.[;)]
BTW Isn't amazing how a good product will sell itself. |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 2:11:20 AM EDT
[#36]
NO PRICING INFO ON THE #40-L HAS BEEN RELEASED YET. THE ONE UNIT I DID RECEIVE IS A PRE-PRODUCTION PROTOTYPE. I WAS TOLD BY ARMS THAT WE WILL HAVE PRICING AND AVAILABILITY INFO AFTER THE FIRST OF THE YEAR.
WES |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 3:06:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Wes:
I have a Colt flattop with new-style Armalite 1" scope mount and Leupold Vari-XII 3-9X40. As I measure it, there's about 0.43-0.44" of space between the top of the flattop rail and the bottom of the Leupold eyepiece. Would the ARMS #40-L fit underneath this setup? I know you said it's 0.6" high when stowed (yes, I can read[;)]), but I'm wondering if I'm taking my measurement from the wrong place. [:\] Thanks, Corey EDITED to fix board code. |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 4:31:24 PM EDT
[#38]
IT IS CERTAINLY CHRISTMAS:) Called MSP ref. to 40L's, they tell they have very limited units now coming in and those go out to Wes first. Next question how much? $109.00 retail:)When? next wk.:)
Good shootin, Jack |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 6:44:47 PM EDT
[#39]
THERE YOU HAVE IT: PRICE AND DELIVERY INFO!
MS-P 800-428-9394 ASK FOR NED. GREAT GUY! WE SHOULD HAVE SOME IN STOCK OURSELVES BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK. COREY - THAT'S NOT MUCH ROOM TO WORK WITH. MUST BE A REALLY "GENEROUS" OCULAR LENS. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THE #40-L OR ANYTHING ELSE I KNOW OF WILL FIT UNDER THAT SCOPE. WHAT'S THE EYE RELIEF? WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 7:01:02 PM EDT
[#40]
I asked them how many they had and told me just one and it wasn't for sale, I tried. Then tells me wait till next week and then that batch (didn't know how many)goes to Wes, as a back order. I just hope Wes ordered enough!
Jack |
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Posted: 12/23/2003 7:18:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I should have them very soon also, probably soon after Wes does. He's got to get the good stuff first, then the rest of us tag along..
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Posted: 12/23/2003 7:21:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: THERE YOU HAVE IT: PRICE AND DELIVERY INFO! MS-P 800-428-9394 ASK FOR NED. GREAT GUY! WE SHOULD HAVE SOME IN STOCK OURSELVES BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK. COREY - THAT'S NOT MUCH ROOM TO WORK WITH. MUST BE A REALLY "GENEROUS" OCULAR LENS. IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THE #40-L OR ANYTHING ELSE I KNOW OF WILL FIT UNDER THAT SCOPE. WHAT'S THE EYE RELIEF? WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] Wes: Thanks for your reply, but darn it! I was just about to email you to hold one for me! Though the scope has a very generous eye relief, unfortunately I'm not sure the Armalite mount (which I've recently added) moves it as far forward as it could go. I'll play around with it a little more and see what I can do. Thanks again for your reply. Corey |
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