I've always liked Magpul, for obvious reasons.  They make high quality innovative products at affordable prices.  I've thought the pmags were great, esp the window'd version.  Very novel ideal.  I had a fair amount of pmags before the panic started in December, but decided it was prudent to order more just in case.  After a month or so, I received my Gen 2 window'd pmags.  However, these were not the same ol Gen 2s....  Since last year, Magpul has introduced a new polymer formula into their mags.  The same type that they are using with the new Gen 3 mags, even the Gen 2s are being molded with this new polymer.  

A new stronger formula, I thought it was great!  It seemed sturdier / stiffer than the older Gen 2 Pmags made from the old formula.  For the hell of it, I decided I'd do a drop test on this new polymer forumula.  I had done plenty with the old polymer Gen 2s, and had always had great results.  However....such was not to be the case with this new Pmag!!

During my own initial mag trials where I put several different types and brands of magazines to the test, I had use a flat rock embedded into the earth to perform drop tests on.  

Here is the rock



I would hold a fully loaded magazine upside down head high (~6 ft) and drop it straight down on the rock.  The old pmags would develop a hair line crack after the initial drop.  Repeated drops would cause the crack to spread and open up more.



I performed the same test to this new Gen 2 Window'd Pmag with the new stiffer polymer formula.  My initial impression after seeing the drop was positive.  Unlike the older Pmag, NO ROUNDS spilled out after impact.  The old Pmags would always have 2 or so rounds spill out after a direct drop on the feedlips.  However, what I saw next, quickly wiped away my satisfaction.

There was a LARGE CRACK in the spine of the Pmag.  Not just a hairline crack, but a large GAPING crack.  A crack that size, would have taken multiple drops on the rock with the older gen 2 pmags.  This mag cracked like a fissure after only ONE drop!!!


Both Mags after the Rock Drop Test

For the sake of it, I used my well used and abused Brownell's 30 round USGI magazine with the tan follower.  This is THE exact same mag that I used in my prior mag endurance trials 3 years prior.  This mag has been to hell and back, and still works.  This mag has been beat up so much, that the front portion of the follower had broken off!  I had performed multiple drop tests on this very same mag, even the rock drop test which I performed on this mag more than once.  


Brownells Mag Feedlips After Drop Close Up

I decided to fully load it up and drop it on the rock again.  The already beat feedlips looked even more beat.  However, it still fed and functioned fine!

The Pmag is now ruined....after ONLY ONE DROP!  It will no longer hold a full 30 rounds.  The crack is so large that the spring will force rounds out when the mag is close to fully loaded capacity.

This is very disappointing to say the least, and I hope magpul takes much needed steps to fix this problem.  It bothers me greatly that Magpul is now using a sub par polymer formula for their magazines.  

Not to sound like a Magpul fanboy, but that test is a bit unrealistic.

In what situation, ever, would you be dropping a fully loaded mag, feed lips down, onto a hard surface, from head high?
If you knew the kind of forces generated in a staggered mag with an impulse like that, you would understand why almost any polymer mag would fail the same way.

I bet if you ran it over with a car it would break as well, but what are the chances of that happening under any kind of normal use?

I don't care.


The old Pmags would take it.  The brownells mags can take it!  

Do you want to own subpar pmags that are worse than the prior generation?

It was because of the other "tests" that were done a while back. I can see one having a hairline crack after a few drops, but this was a little to much damage for what it was.
That being said, I do agree that I don't plan on dropping mine on any rocks. Under normal use, they are good to go. The new polymer should be better, so maybe a defective mag?

My guess is that they are stiffer because of some complaints of not dropping free from some lowers.

Were you one of those guys that decided to splurge on a crapload of PMAGS at stupid prices?

May have something to do with the subjectivity of the test.

Unless you had a guide to make the mags strike at the same exact orientation, you've got apples and oranges and your one little anecdotal test isn't worth much.

No, why, were you?

No, I've got some gen1/2 pmags, but I mostly shoot GI and Brownells, and I realize that mags are a wear item so I don't get all wound up about brands.

Why does your post give me the feeling you don't do a lot of action shooting?



 

If you read my post, you'd know that I performed multiple drop tests with the old pmags, and other mags.  NONE of the old pmags I dropped on that rock EVER exhibited a crack like that after one drop.  Hell, even after 3 drops!

Just got 3rd in a 2 gun and 10th in a 3 gun within the last couple weeks

Think what you want.  How many fully loaded mags do you throw down on the feed lips?

Did the OP do any similar tests with other poly mags before calling the PMAGS "sub-par" ?

Again, reading comprehension seems to be a problem with you.  I state right in the title that the NEW polymer formula is SUB-PAR compared to Magpul's OLD POLYMER FORMULA!!!  


I am NOT saying magpul Pmags are sub-par compared to other mags.  I am simply comparing them to themselves!  

The older polymer formula is better / stronger.  Does that sum it u for you better?

Scientific method.

So if your conclusions are correct, they're not as strong as the original.
How does the new gen compare to the others on the market?

Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Seems that many people have a strange emotional investment in their pretty plastic mags.

I will continue to stay with the tried and true USGI mags until there are better available.

Mags DO get dropped.

Ever been to war?


Sometimes your shit falls out of your pouches.

No, I haven't, and I do understand that.
Have you ever busted a PMAG?
Do you think the OP will be in a situation where he will bust one?
I have a feeling that you don't carry your mags expecting them to last forever.
I'm out of the loop, was the polymer mag restriction lifted?

USGI FTW.
 

I've been shooting a local 2 gun match for over 2 years, almost weekly.  I've 6'2", and I fling my mags out when I strip them, sometimes with rounds sometimes without, but they hit harder than if they dropped free, 2 years of impacting on the feed lips on concrete, and nary a crack on them.





Not bad for...   thermolds!





Also, if you had read the OP's posts, he tested the current Gen 2 P-mags against a USGI mag he used as the control for the original Gen 2 P-mags he tested.



He called the NEW p-mags sub par to the OLD p-mags, based on his test.  (With the USGI style aluminum magazine doing better no less...)



 

I understand, I was just asking if he had done a comparison of the new PMAGS to other polymer mags.
They may be weaker than the last gen if his test is accurate, but are they tougher than the alternatives?

Like I said above, I'm not a fanboy, just seeing if this is another "crying wolf" thread or somesuch.
I shoot GI's and Brownells mostly.

And I have to ask, what kind of 2-gun are you shooting where you're throwing a mag with rounds loaded?
Every one I've shot, you'll get a procedural if a loaded mag hit the ground.

I believe all gear should be tested to simulate me falling off balconies or being run over by a large truck...  I am concerned that my gear wouldn't be usable by the enemy who will be laughing at this point and hopefully proceed to put me out of my misery...

Maybe the new polymer has other desirable characteristics, perhaps it ages better.

This says it all.  How can anyone predict how a magazine could possibly be damaged?  Im a firm believer in if shit can happen, it will.  Im also a believer in having several brands of quality magazines available just in case.  Twenty years down the road, who can tell what kind of degradation can happen in plastics, polymers, alloys, etc?  Cover all of your bases.

Not to be that guy OP, but based on your post you're coming to this conclusion from testing done to one new PMAG.

There isn't a whole lot of credibility here unless you can get the same result with multiple PMAG drop tests.

o you poked the sleeping giant op and the gauntlet has been dropped

Too late, apparently I'm already THAT GUY and they don't like me.

lol i like you rdtcu even if your from SC we cant all be from TX

Amen. Pmags and polymer mags in general are okay to use as range mags, but I would never use one in a SHTF situation..I prefer to use the real deal, .USGI all the way!!

do i really need to direct you to this
if he got a faulty mag they already said they will make good on it

I have seen those test videos.  And I have seen my own tests, which I have personally conducted.  Thomas Edison never believed anything that any science text told him, until he could personally verify the results himself.  I'd be glad to send the mag in, if there is something wrong with it then the whole batch I have is likely defective as well.

Thanks, but we've got almost as many illegals in patches here in the upstate, so you would feel right at home...

Also, I like mountains.

I've personally had 3 pmags mags split in that area exactly the same in just normal use. Not dropping them. Why I can't tell you. They all were used a few times & all were in the magwell of the guns for an extended time in my safe guns.
Magpul however replaced them no questions asked.

Thanks for posting this, interesting info.  Perhaps it's a Colorado mandate - I hear their legislators think magazines are only good for one use

Kidding aside, I personally find tests and experiences like this useful and interesting.  Arguments about it only being one magazine, or the test wasn't realistic because the height was 1' higher than typical, don't really wash with me.  This is hardly a random experience from left field - you dropped the mag, it broke.  Lost count how many other people have had the same experience.  It does have to be full, and it does have to hit just so to crack.  But when those circumstances are present, they break.  Seen way too many reports of such to dismiss it.

If I understand correctly, you proclaim that the "new polymer mix" is substandard, based upon drop testing 1 magazine?  I'm a USGI mag type guy myself, but I think I would want a larger sample size before claiming that.

Magazine will be off to Magpul shortly for their evaluation.

No shit, and nobody posting before you caught that. The others on his side simply stroked him and his "testing"
One Pmag is not a test

Were these Gen III? I accidentally left two Gen II black pmags in the back seat of my SUV for about a year. The sun had bleached them a slightly lighter shade on one side and when I went to load them, one of the feed lips broke off. It's as if the radiation from the sun and heating/cooling from being in the vehicle degraded the polymer. I've had a few crack from dropping them, but I didn't know Magpul would replace them and tossed them instead. I now wish that I would have kept them.

Gen 2's. 2 FDE & 1 black all non window.

As a former infantry Marine who served in Mogadishu, and is now a cop in StL, I've had several USGI mags fail to feed and malfunction due to being dropped and the feedlips being bent out of shape.
I have had mags that worked fine, get dropped once at the range, suddenly stop working.
I personally own both USGI, and Pmags for my personal guns and my duty AR is un the car with a USGI mag and have Pmags in the Bail out Bag...
Until magazines are indestructable, they will eventually fail. Nothing is foolproof.

Magpul and the Pmag are responsible for the increased reliability of AR mags across the board.
IMO/IME, Gen 1 Pmags were better than the USGI mags available at the time.
Now, there are improvements in reliability for all.
I dont recall people deliberately destroying/damaging AR mags in the name of testing prior to the release of the Pmag. It was generally understood that beating on your mags, running them over with a truck, shooting them, throwing them in the dishwasher,  or deliberately dropping them on a rock so that they land on the weakest part, was bad for them and would cause them to break.

Now, because of the Pmag....its like "Jack Ass the Movie" with AR mags.
This is all good IMO, since we have better and stronger rifle magazines because of it.
But dont forget where this all came from.

OP, your sample size is too small, and you need to verify if the magazine still functions or not, after dropping it on the rock.

+1

That's fine, but how about a magazine that won't even hold rounds because the spring tension will push them out?  That's what happened to this magazine after one drop, if you try to load it to capacity, the rounds will not remain in the mag!  I didn't even bother trying to fire it at that point.  Would you consider that a failure?  

Also, the brownells USGI magazines I've found are a step above the centers and other comparable brands.  They are tougher and more durable.  Not sure if it's the aluminum, or the heat treat or what.  

Magpul could correct me, but hard plastics are typically more brittle and soft plastics tend to "creep" more.

Magpul might have changed the formulation for the Gen3 to fix a drop-free issue or some other issue and then made the up for the brittleness by making the ribs beefier. It could be this is the best formulation for the Gen3, but maybe not for the Gen2. It does seem to still work for Gen2, but it probably does not make financial sense to buy both polymers.

However, OP it is good to know this. Some guys who are more concerned with mags breaking might want to steer clear of the new Gen2 mags. If you could get your hands on a new Gen3 maybe you could do the test with one of those.

According to Magpul the Gen3 has undergone some pretty extensive testing. I imagine they have dropped full mags quite a few times.

I have never been to war, but I just wanted to point out that it seems like you are more likely to drop an unloaded mag from high up as you fling it out and load up a new mag. If a new mag fell out of your pouch then it would probably not be 6' up. Maybe 3 or 4 feet.

Don't get me wrong, I have had an equal amount of aluminum mags fail after being dropped, only difference is the failure is always at the seam. Other than the follower, I just don't trust polymer of any kind near high heat/friction areas....and even then, I have some factory followers that are stippling and degrading in both USGI and polymer mags from unburnt powder. I own tons of pmags and will continue to buy and use them regardless, in addition to other Magpul products. But I know from personal experience that polymer does degrade if left undisturbed for extended periods in direct sunlight. It is nice to see that you guys are keeping on top of evolving your products though. I just received a bunch of Gen III's recently, mostly 20rd. The followers seem to function much more smoothly than my Gen II's. We ran some yesterday without any issues. I also noticed that they seemed much more clean after several cycles through each. Is this because of the change in the polymer mix?

Sorry but that dog don't hunt.  I've been using PMags since they first hit the market and have yet to have an issue with any of them.  They get used and abused and still function properly.  I've got USGI mags that work great too, but they can't handle the abuse that the pmags can.  One drop on the feed lips and my GI mags become training only mags because they will no longer feed properly and will not drop free.  I trust my life to pmags, and many of my collegues do as well.

  i'll stick with PMags.