I've been saying for a few weeks that I would get some chrono results from my new 10.5" Noveske rifle and today was about as perfect as it gets for MN in December. Everything lined up and I was able to break away from my small business and get to the range this afternoon. I've learned a TON from this board and others on AR15.com so...no freeloading.

The weather:

Air Temp: 44 degrees
Humidity: 70%
Dewpoint: 36 degrees
Pressure: 29.62 (steady)

The Rifle:




All Noveske build, 10.5" SWB CHF CL Barrel with SiCo Omega w/ASR mount

The Ammo:



I had some Barnes 55gr TSX FB that I bought a few years ago and loaded onto stripper clips so I brought that along but the box isn't pictured because those are long gone. I have some IMI 77gr Razor Core on order but unfortunately it hasn't made it to me yet so I couldn't test it today.

The results:

All shots were taken over a Master Chrony at 12 feet from the muzzle. Every string was a 10 shot string, no omissions. I did get a few errors where a shot wasn't recorded so I had to shoot more than 10 rounds of a few of the ammo types.

Federal M193:
2720          ES: 74 fps
2748          Avg: 2727 fps
2697
2684
2728
2746
2731
2749
2706
2758

Federal M855:
2659          ES 53 fps
2695          Avg 2666 fps
2673
2688
2657
2643
2696
2651
2652
2644

Black Hills 77gr TMK:
2411          ES 49 fps
2415          Avg 2410 fps
2376
2408
2424
2397
2421
2425
2401
2420

Barnes VOR-TX 55gr TSX-FB:
2568          ES 101 fps
2562          Avg 2605
2615
2589
2611
2599
2593
2616
2632
2663

Federal Fusion MSR 62gr
2465          ES 80 fps
2504          Avg 2516 fps
2520
2496
2522
2489
2536
2544
2542
2545

Australian Outback 69gr Sierra Matchking
2326          ES 48 fps
2325          Avg 2300 fps
2293
2309
2281
2278
2290
2297
2308
2298

Prvi/PPU 75gr HPBT Match
2192          ES 80 fps
2196          Avg 2185 fps
2201
2216
2136
2150
2163
2203
2203
2187

(Update 12/30/15) Finally got out for the second test. Well I was actually at the range for to test a couple days before Christmas but Murphy got me in the form of a dead battery in the chrono about 20 rounds in so I had to abort early.

The Weather:
Air Temp 27 degrees
Humidity 73%
Dewpoint 18 degrees
Pressure 30.15

In addition to the pictured ammo below, I tested the same M193 and M855 again in colder temps, just for the hell of it.


Today's results:

Federal M193:
2721          ES 80 fps
2771          AVG 2752 fps
2756
2790
2767
2722
2711
2743
2760
2781

Federal M855:
2702          ES 59 fps
2669          AVG 2672 fps
2689
2678
2643
2662
2671
2674
2669
2666

Black Hills 77gr TMK:
2449          ES 38 fps
2447          AVG 2429 fps
2411
2428
2427
2434
2439
2411
2418
2429

Barnes VOR-TX 62gr TSX:
2711          ES 49 fps
2687          AVG 2683 fps
2707
2667
2678
2683
2702
2666
2662
2672

Barnes VOR-TX 70gr TSX:
2619          ES 34 fps
2610          AVG 2616 fps
2611
2623
2620
2600
2606
2634
2614
2624

Federal Fusion MSR:
2450          ES 117 fps
2416          AVG 2514 fps
2506
2456
2508
2541
2534
2567
2530
2529

Federal Fusion 62gr:
2378          ES 102 fps
2349          AVG 2355 fps
2327
2325
2387
2374
2287
2381
2389
2352

Nosler Defense 64gr Bonded: (Thanks for the test ammo LS1POWERED!)
2409          ES 44 fps
2408          AVG 2410 fps
2404
2392
2395
2414
2412
2407
2436
2425

Hornady TAP-FPD 75gr:
2260          ES 50 fps
2310          AVG 2282 fps
2285
2262
2264
2306
2287
2266
2300
2285

IMI Razor Core 77gr OTM:
2411          ES 148 fps
2423          AVG 2447 fps
2439
2446
2544
2410
2449
2396
2459
2497

(Update 2/5/16) I only tested 2 loads with the 10.5" Noveske today but I brought out my brand new BCM 12.5" upper for some testing. Rather than start a new thread I'll just post it here.

The Weather:
Air Temp 26 degrees
Humidity 85%
Dewpoint 19 degrees
Pressure 30.22

The Ammo:


10.5" Noveske:

Federal M193: (Used as a baseline)
2664ES 107 fps
2740AVG 2708 fps
2712
2676
2698
2688
2729
2705
2695
2771

SSA 70gr TSX: (Thanks for the test ammo LS1POWERED!)
2387ES 55 fps
2407AVG 2395 fps
2401
2375
2373
2392
2380
2409
2395
2428
___________________________________________________________________
12.5" BCM Upper:

Federal M193:
2838ES 89 fps
2873AVG 2891 fps
2878
2904
2909
2861
2927
2901
2899
2916

Federal M855:
2783ES 31 fps
2790AVG 2790 fps
2773
2789
2785
2798
2804
2789
2796
2791

Fusion MSR 62gr:
2681ES 127 fps
2573AVG 2657 fps
2628
2627
2684
2682
2653
2690
2700
2656

Black Hills 77gr TMK:
2523ES 65 fps
2521AVG 2503 fps
2504
2503
2499
2532
2476
2469
2467
2532

IMI Razor Core 77gr OTM:
2507ES 80FPS
2531AVG 2542 fps
2546
2532
2579
2522
2577
2555
2499
2571

Pretty good I would say from a 10.5" with the 193 especially...

Ya I was somewhat pleasantly surprised at the M193 result

Great info thanks for posting!  I like what that fusion is doing out of a short barrel, should get expansion out to nearly 300 yards.

 
Just a heads up PSA has federal fusion for $11.99 a box currently.


Up $2 from Black Friday sale.

Those are all good velocities from a 10.5" barrel.

There are "slow" barrels and there are "fast" barrels... judging by your velocities.... you got a "fast" one.

How far away was the chrono from the muzzle?

BTW, those of you looking to buy Fusion... make sure it is the MSR version... it is a little faster.

And as a gloat comment ... I scored some Fusion on BF weekend for $8.00 per box... factory fresh...


Now back to the 10.5" barrel...

How is the accuracy with such a short barrel ?

shame i'm not out that way. I would be interesting to test my 11.5" noveske against it to see what the difference is.

Chrono was at 12 feet.

I bought a case and a half from PSA for $10 each, pre BF. At $8 I probably would have bought 3 cases

Haven't tested accuracy yet because...It's complicated lol...

The range I was at yesterday was closed for hunting season when I wanted to sight in so I ended up taking it to an indoor range and sighted it in at 46yds (their longest range). With the M4s and 3X mag I had several 3 shot groups ranging in size between a dime and a quarter with the 77gr TMK and they were all right around quarter size with the MSR.

My normal range is what I went to yesterday and the only place I can really set up a chrono is the 200 yard range 1) because almost no one shoots from that pad and 2) because the concrete is wider and 3) because the shooting tables aren't chained down so I can move them. I set up a silhouette target and shot every round into that. Most hit center mass but I didn't account for an 8 mph crosswind because I wasn't testing for accuracy, just the chrono results.

Like I said...complicated.

I think my next barrel is going to be a 12.5 but that's going to be a while, haven't even started the F1 for the lower yet.

Here are the JBM Ballistics calculations based on my results yesterday:

(I took pictures of the spreadsheets I made because I don't know how to make it come out properly otherwise, sorry!)

The 77gr TMK and 62gr MSR are going to be my standard loads for this rifle so I only ran the ballistics for these two rounds. Both zeros were set for 50 yards because I subscribe to the 50/200 zero school of thought.

77gr TMK


Inputs included a G1 BC of .415 based on 2410 fps

Per the owner of Black Hills, they've gotten expansion down to 1900 fps, which by this chart indicates expansion to just over 250 yards.

62gr MSR


I have no BC data on this round other than the .310 G1 BC @ 2750 fps so I used .310 @ 2516 fps

I've heard a couple different reports on the expansion velocity floor for this round, even claiming down to 1200 fps in one case but if I use a more conservative number like 1750 fps, that'll get me to 300 yards.

Either way, both of these bullets look like they'll give great performance out of a shorty with a can!

Great info. I have a suppressed 10.5" AR too but I've never gotten around to chrono'ing all the ammo I shoot. I did chrono some 55 grain Ballistic Tip loads though. I primarily shoot XM193 out of that gun and the Ballistic Tips are for critters.

Massammo has it in stock $80/200, although it is the regular fusion, not MSR.

I'll pick up a box of regular fusion for a future test and put up 10 more rounds of MSR to get a side by side. Probably won't be until spring though. It gets COLD here (usually)

Was out & about tonight and found a box of regular Fusion 62gr. See below for next test info!

I'm going to shoot for a 2nd test the week of Christmas. The weather here should be similar to the last test but I'll retest both the Fusion MSR and BH 77gr TMK to give it a baseline.

Does anyone have any specific loads they would like to see tested out of a 10.5? I don't have too much time but I can look for some and try to get them in before I do another test.

Also, LS1POWERED offered to send me a couple of his favorite loads to test and I'd like to offer that to anyone else if you're interested. Please keep it to factory loads but if you're interested, shoot me an IM and we can work it out!

So far I have:

Hornady TAP-FPD 75gr
Fusion 62gr (Non MSR)
Barnes VOR-TX 62gr TSX
Barnes VOR-TX 70gr TSX
IMI 77gr  OTM Razor Core

Great info. Thanks for taking the time to chrono everything, it's appreciated. Btw, your pictures of the charts came out excellent.

facepalm

great test

what kind of m193?

Federal American Eagle XM193...Know how I know you just scrolled to the results?

stupid question.

Does bc change based on barrel length?

Yes, no, maybe so.

Ballistic coefficient doesn't change because of barrel length...but it can change based on velocity (for example, Sierra offers velocity-banded G1 BCs), and velocity is dependent on barrel length.

Not stupid...but not really the right question either.

A ballistic coefficient is a measurement of an object's ability to overcome air resistance. The slower an object travels, the more susceptible it is to the effects of air resistance.

Basically, a bullet fired at a lower velocity will slow down faster because the air around it has a greater effect on it. How much of an effect it has is based on the BC of the bullet to begin with, and the higher the better there. The shorter barrel doesn't "cause" the issue but it contributes to it because it pushes the bullet at a lower velocity to begin with.

That's why I'm taking this test so seriously. I want to find the BEST HD/SD rounds for my new shorty. My reading on the subject led me the the MSR and 77 TMK loads because of their reported good performance at lower velocities. I'm not done testing and while I think those are going to be my 'go to' loads for this gun, I have by no means ruled others out.

BTW, I should have some results up next week from round 2.

sorry Im on my phone and some pics dont show up.

very timely. I just got an 11.5" barrel

I think after getting the sights close it will be fed nothing but my 77 nosler cc reloads

Ha, no worries. I was just bustin' your chops anyway

Second test update in OP

Awesome, thanks for the second test!

Nice. Thanks for the second test.

The Barnes 70gr numbers are impressive out of a 10.5" barrel.

The Fusion numbers are interesting. The 223 standard Fusion being much slower than the MSR. Glad I've been stocking up on the MSR.

Need to chorno my 10.5 Rainier match barrel and see how it compares. Ill run it suppressed with my Omega also.

Great write up. I did the same thing two years ago when i first got my 10.5". TMK wasnt around and I didnt have IMI, so it is good to see those numbers. You numbers confirm that Fusion, TMK and TSX are great HD loads with an SBR.

These numbers should go in Zhukov data.

Great update!  I have been stocking up on the fusion and TMK and looks like I will continue!  The 62g Barns gets moving out of a 10.5" barrel,  very impressive.

Blown away at that 70 TSX velocity, and very pleasantly surprised at the 77 TMK velocity.

Glad to help guys. I'll be doing more as time and weather permit...I have quite a few half full boxes now and it seems a waste to just use them as blasting ammo. Maybe I'll wait until Spring/Summer for the next major test so I can see what the differences are in warm temps. Here are some observations I had about this test:

This test ended the debate (for me) about Fusion vs Fusion MSR. The MSR has to be loaded much closer to 5.56 spec to create a 150+ fps difference, all other things being equal. Not saying the Fusion is bad by any means, it's just not quite as fast at the muzzle.

It was nice to see the consistency of the MSR and TMK loads at sub freezing temps compared to the test at 44 degrees. All the ammo was sitting on a table for about a half hour before being tested and before that was in the back of a cold truck for about an hour so I assume it was very close to ambient temp.

The IMI 77gr OTM is well within the curve of an ammo I'd use in this gun. It was among the more inconsistent (extreme spread) but it looks to be a great budget option.**Most rounds were close but one was significantly HIGHER velocity than the pack. Take that one 'flier' out as the ES is 101. Still not great but better.

I was very pleasantly surprised with the Barnes, both 62gr and 70gr. I didn't think they'd be that good considering the 55gr results but I forgot that the 55gr is loaded to .223 specs whereas both the 62gr and 70gr were loaded to 5.56 specs. I'll need to do some more research on velocity floors for those two rounds. Does anybody have info on the velocity floor for either or both rounds? I've heard 2300 and 1900 for TSX bullets but I'm not sure which exact bullets those numbers are for, hence the need for more research.

I was really only disappointed in the 75gr TAP-FPD. I would venture a guess that the T2 is better but I haven't gotten around to acquiring any.

Nosler Defense 64gr bonded seems decent but I don't know much about the round as this was a test requested (and supplied) by LS1POWERED. He's also sending me some 70gr gmx for a future test.

i never want to be relegated to M193 or M855 in this gun for SD/HD. I suppose at HD ranges I'll get some M193 fragmentation but just...no.

Agree - great info.

OP please IM Zhukov with the data or a link so he can add this to the list in the FAQ.  No sense in loosing all that great data.

When I built my 10.5 SBR, I tested a few loads and here are the results from Hornady. See the archived thread here, for the TL:DR crowd, below are the TAP results.

Hornady TAP 75gr T2  BTHP:
2492 ES 68 fps
2433 AVG 2458 fps
2446
2455
2537
2496
2478
2346
2464
2458

Great velocity, but the groups were the worst of the bunch.

edited for grammer.

Thanks for posting that!

Also, I just sent Zhukov an IM about the thread, we'll see if he adds it.

Great - thank you.

Great job!

Looks like Fusion MSR continues to be a great choice for SBRs. Temporary cavity damage out to ~200 and expansion to 300+!

3rd test today, update in OP!

Bump, cause this is good shit for fellow SBR..ers.  Hard to find data frankly. Man that TMK and MSR is good stuff. 

I've got a bigger test coming up and it'll also be posted in the Ammo forum. 38 (I think) loads from a bunch of manufacturers velocity tested from 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. Retesting M193, M855, 62 TSX, 70 TSX, MSR, TMK and adding some other basic loads like Wolf Gold, MEN, a couple different IMI loads, some steel case loads, all three flavors of gold dots, a couple different SMK loads, etc. This one will take multiple range trips!

I was going to do it last year with about 30 loads but I blew out a disk in my neck. I ended up acquiring a few more over the winter  and the more the merrier.

Very, very cool.  I hope your neck is doing better!  Thanks for the major contribution to data available.

Thanks. I've got a shiny new steel & polymer disk in there and I'm up to 99% of normal @ 36 years old, back to lifting weights & running even.  I couldn't even shoot a .22 for about 6 months there last year.

I intended the bigger test to just be an extension of the original posted here but enough time has passed that I'm just going to start fresh. If there's large velocity anomalies with the previously tested rounds (because of temperature differences), I'll post these results and explain but otherwise this will be completely new.

Damn man.   Glad you are getting back to normal.   Can't wait to see the results.

Please remember to pm Zhukov so he can add it to the ammo list.  We don't want to lose all the great testing you are doing.


.

Awesome,  I was looking forward to this list getting more extensive!

Absolutely. I want to know as much as all of you!

Was planning on doing all the 10.5 testing tomorrow but the forecast is for rain and cool temps in my AO. I'm going to wait until its a bit warmer so I think I'll sandblast a few AR's and maybe cerakote if I have time instead.

Bump