OK just  flame me or call me a troll, but just telling it the way I see it.  I don't have a problem with Winchester ammo as a whole just the 223 55 grain stuff made by Winchester. Last week I shot the Q3131 and got groups from 4 to 6 inches. Today I shot some of the 223 ammo that was 55 grain and not made in Israel. It didn't shoot well either. I could blame it on my gun but I shot it in my HK 93 with equally bad results this morning.
Here is the 2nd and 3rd groups of the day shot at 100 yards after sighting in at 25 yards and before adjusting  the scope again.
The Tight 5 shot group was with the Walmart white box stuff made in Israel. The other is Winchester USA. I shot two other groups with it that were about the same.
This is with a Bushy Varminter. It shoots the 45 grain Winchester HP about like the White box Made in ISrael Winchester.
The second groups are a 10 shot group with S&B 62 grain that is around an inch and a half. The other is the Walmart Winchester with 10 shot group. The wind was kicking up pretty good for these two groups.
JRandyH
http://www.pbase.com/jrandyh/image/56762416.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jrandyh/image/56762417.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jrandyh/image/56762416.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/jrandyh/image/56762417.jpg

WWB is the standard for quality plinking ammo. Many here set some aside for SHTF. They prefer 5.56 to .223 for the higher velocity and better fragmentation at distance.

WWB is great stuff. Shoot it and save the brass for me.

The point I was making is that all of the Winchester ammo in 55 grain that I have shot other than the made in Israel stuff shoots really bad in every gun I have tried it in. That includes Q3131 as well as Made In USA.
I remember having problems with it when I used to shoot alot in the late 80's early 90's and refused to buy it.
I bought some Federal XM 193 yesterday from Wideners and shot several groups that were pretty good. It just something about the winchester Q3131 and USA that doesn't seem to be accurate in any of the guns I have tried.
I would rather have less velocity and be able to hit my target WHERE I want rather that shoot with ammo I am unsure of where it will hit.
BTW I was a Law Enforcement handgun instructor (certified through the Criminal Justice Academy) as part of my job in the 80's early 90's so I know weapons fairly well.
JRandyH

Can you guess which factory ammo I prefer?

Yeah,
I just started out shooting again and was hoping to pick up  a few cases of that after I realized who made it. Its all gone NOW. So I guess I will use Walmart White box from Israel....but I think they are going to quit making it and Winchester will return to production. Several wal mart stores stated its been deleted.
I can use Federal 193 for SHTF ammo.
JRandyH

Havw you tried the Hornady 75 Grain BTHP?  it is very accurate.  Check out the prises at HSM.

http://www.thehuntingshack.com/index.html

Are you saying the 45gr JHP shot bad too? You said(This is with a Bushy Varminter. It shoots the 45 grain Winchester HP about like the White box Made in ISrael Winchester)  When I shoot the 45 stuff it shoots as good as my Blackhills 75gr.

No,
I said the 45 grain stuff shoot like a dream. I have only had accuracy problems with the Made In USA white box and Q3131 and thats with 3 different guns. Bushy 16 inch, Varminter and HK93.
I shot some of the new Q3131 last week in my 16 inch with horrible accuracy in the 4 to 6 inch grouping. I have some old Q3131 that I bought around 1994 that shoots better but not up to par with the Federal 193 or anything else I have shot.
JRandyH

Quoted: No, I said the 45 grain stuff shoot like a dream. I have only had accuracy problems with the Made In USA white box and Q3131 and thats with 3 different guns. Bushy 16 inch, Varminter and HK93. I shot some of the new Q3131 last week in my 16 inch with horrible accuracy in the 4 to 6 inch grouping. I have some old Q3131 that I bought around 1994 that shoots better but not up to par with the Federal 193 or anything else I have shot. JRandyH

10-4 . My Bushy loves the stuff too.

Remember, military specs are 4 moa accuracy. You are getting that with that group. Using match type ammo is going to create a better control for you & your rifle's accuracy potential.

USA223R1VP... Otherwise known as the 223  40 round value pack is super accurate in my rifles.

M4-AK

My AR's don't like Winchester ball.  I gagged at my groups with winchester compared to Fed XM193.  I tried and now avoid remington ball ammo too.  Still got a few boxes of remmington that won't cycle.  I'll have to run it through the SAIGA.

I have some TZ surplus that goes pretty good.

I am glad I wasn't the only one that got bad groups for the Winchester ball ammo.
I have some old UMC made by remington I bought in the late 80's early 90's that shoots well in all my guns.
JRandyH

I shot winchester white box yesterday and had the same results. I thought it was the new rifle breaking in. Shots danced all over.

Was it marked USA or is it the Israeli made white box. The israeli made stuff shoots like a dream in all my guns.

Quoted: Can you guess which factory ammo I prefer?

Wolf, right............

I hope my RRA likes the Israeli stuff, cuz I just bought 1120 rds.

I didn't know it did shoot bad . Of course I haven't bought any fresh stuff lately . ( 2-3 yeARS )

Quoted: Quoted: Can you guess which factory ammo I prefer? Wolf, right............

Nope; AA2230C, Win 55fmjbt, LC, TZZ or WCC brass, CCI #41 primer - $84 per thousand.