User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 9:38:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Come on....anyone got an anwer? Josh
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 10:30:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Don't know of any IMI M193 available. IMI M855, $289.99/1200 (=$241.66/1000) available at KY Imports.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 4:06:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Widener's has IMI 193 for $175/1000 plus shipping at
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=4092 |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 4:43:43 PM EDT
[#4]
I know ammotogo had boxed IMI M855, but as of 2 weeks ago they are sold out. Still, they are expensive ($300 for 900 rounds). KYimports has been sold out of it for a while. I don't know anyone to get IMI M193 from, but I wouldn't mind finding out.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 5:28:47 PM EDT
[#5]
That is NOT M193, but commercially-loaded .223 loads. The primary difference being that the commercial loads run around 150 fps slower than military "5.56" loads. Also, IMI M193 comes in 30-round brown "kraft" boxes in 1200 round cases, not in 20-round color-printed commercial boxes in 1000 round cases. -Troy |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/28/2005 5:52:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Troy, is the older 1200 round cases of IMI M193 in the 30 round kraft boxes from around 1999-2000 loaded to the higher military round specs than the commercially loaded stuff IMI is selling now ? Just wondering since I have three cases of it.  Thnaks |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2005 10:31:26 AM EDT
[#7]
I am looking for good quality, clean ammo for range use, but I'd like it to be acceptable quality for SHTF. How would Widener's "COMMERCIAL" IMI described above compare with Fed XM193 or with American Eagle 55gr?? Do the military grade xm193 100fps extra oomph justify another $50-70 per 1000??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2005 1:53:58 PM EDT
[#8]
It's some of the best ammo I've shot out of my AR's. It's a bit weaker than XM193 or Q3131A, but it's still hotter than AE and other commercial ammo. The other plus is that it's crimped and sealed. For me it's a happy medium between shooting quality ammo and being poor  (of course with keeping some of the GOOD stuff stashed) I'm not sure someone would notice this vs XM193 if it was flying at them....
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2005 2:08:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Like Troy said, the IMI commercial .223 is going to be 100-150fps slower than M193 (such as the Federal XM193). It'll be roughly the same speed as the AE. It may be better than the AE as SHTF ammo in that the commercial IMI appears to have sealed primers, and possibly sealed bullets. You're giving up a bit of frag range by losing that velocity, but otherwise it's probably very good ammo. It may even be "better" insofar as the slightly lower pressure often yields better precision (smaller group size). I may buy some myself soon to shoot instead of my XM193 and Q3131A stash, which is starting to dwindle below 2000. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2005 3:33:13 PM EDT
[#10]
True M193 is a "5.56" or "military pressure" load. Commercially, it would be a +P load, assuming that SAAMI decided to make such a designation for .223 Remington; they haven't.
Examples of ammo that is "5.56": Fed XM193 & XM855 Winchester Q3131 & Q3131A IMI M193 & M855 South African M1Ax (where x=1 to 6) '98 & earlier PMC IVI (Canadian) SS-109 Examples of ammo that is commercial ".223": - Fed American Eagle - Winchester "white box" loads (other than the Q3131/Q3131A loads) - Remington UMC - IMI .223 - Black Hills (all but specific military loads, such as Mk262 Mod 1) - Virtually all hunting ammo - '99 & later PMC - Russian (Wolf/Tula, Barnoul, Uly) - Czech (Sellier & Bellot), including their "M193" - Olympic .223 Note that being ".223" isn't automatically a BAD thing, but it is important for those who are looking for defensive/duty ammo to understand how dramatically their fragmentation range is reduced (or eliminated altogether) by dropping the MV of their ammo 150-200 fps. For non-duty use, this is no big deal, and I normally use .223 loads for practice myself, to save the 5.56 for more important stuff. -Troy |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2005 6:11:25 PM EDT
[#11]
I just got 2K of the IMI .223 from Wideners. Haven't shot any of it yet, but I think it will be more than adequate for range use.
Really wish I could find some of the IMI M193 to put away. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2005 5:01:28 AM EDT
[#12]
I chronied Lot 00264/D from Widener's in a 20 inch 1/7 Colt and 16 inch 1/10 Mini-14.
20 inch average velocity was 3048 fps, with an ES of 62. If someone IM's me the Sd formula again I'll do that math. ETA: Sd 21.8 16 inch average velocity was 2925 fps with an ES of 114. Only fired 60 rds., and 20 of those were over the chrony, so how well it groups is still needing some evaluation. I might get some trigger time with it today, probably use a 1/12 AR w/ 15X and my Rem 700 1/12(20 inch) w/ 4x16. I'm also sitting on 2K of it, it IS better as far as velocity being consistent compared to the UMC I shot recently(about 300 rds.). The UMC exhibited a ridiculous ES of 282 including a round that went 3216 fps, when it's average was 3047! About 3 empty casings out of 50 showed clear signs of primer pocket leakage, probably from the occasional "hot shot" the chrony identified! Thumbs down on the new UMC... Paladin ETA: Range testing revealed the IMI .223 shoots well enough on paper to make a great practice load. AR fired 5 shot groups at 200 yards will stay UNDER 4 inches. 100 yard groups stayed under 2 inches, with some flirting with the 1.5 mark. IMO the IMI .223 is more accurate than Q3131A, but not as accurate as WWB 45 jhp's. Not match ammo, but quite "good enough" for everyday blasting. Paladin |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2005 11:55:55 AM EDT
[#13]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2005 5:56:41 PM EDT
[#14]
That stuff appears to be the PD variant. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
