What is the most devastating 5.56 round?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is the most devastating 5.56 round? (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 8/14/2005 4:53:24 PM EDT

I know most of the general stats and velocities, but after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round? By the way, I have read ammo-oracle, but I'm still not sure.

Posted: 8/14/2005 5:05:22 PM EDT

[#1]

Ice bullets are the best by far.

Posted: 8/14/2005 5:09:38 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I know most of the general stats and velocities, but after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round? By the way, I have read ammo-oracle, but I'm still not sure.

Read it again.

It all depends on your requirements.

If you are planning on engaging bad guys from zero to 100 yards using a 14.5" to 16" barrel or longer with a twist rate no tighter than 1/9 then either Fed XM193 or Win Q3131A.

Posted: 8/14/2005 5:21:39 PM EDT

[#3]

M995 Armor Piercing IMHO
good luck finding any

Posted: 8/14/2005 5:22:45 PM EDT

[#4]

The one you are most accurate with.

Posted: 8/14/2005 5:27:59 PM EDT

[#5]

Garlic coated, mercury filled Raufoss.

Posted: 8/14/2005 7:52:17 PM EDT

[#6]

The most devastating round I ever saw in .223/5.56mm was the 100 gr load that Black Hills devised a couple of years ago. It had the shortest neck (distance traveled until yaw occurred) I've ever seen in this caliber and the most dramatic fragmentation. It also penetrated to ideal depths.

Unfortunately, the round had the trajectory of a brick being tossed by an elderly woman. Therefore out past 100 yds, it starts dropping pretty dramatically. So as far as I know, this load never made it much farther than the experimental stage. But it would have made one hell of a CQB load.

The next best load I can think of is the 75/77 gr cannelured match bullets loaded to milspec velocities.

After that, the Black Hills and Hornady commercial spec 75/77 gr match loads are very good.

For folks who have 1:9 twist barrels that won't stabilize the 75/77 gr loads sufficiently (some will, some won't), then I'd recommend the Black Hills 68 gr match or Winchester 64 gr Power Point Plus (or Winchester Ranger 64 gr Power Point).

-CH

Posted: 8/14/2005 7:54:19 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The most devastating round I ever saw in .223/5.56mm was the 100 gr load that Black Hills devised a couple of years ago. It had the shortest neck (distance traveled until yaw occurred) I've ever seen in this caliber and the most dramatic fragmentation. It also penetrated to ideal depths.

Unfortunately, the round had the trajectory of a brick being tossed by an elderly woman. Therefore out past 100 yds, it starts dropping pretty dramatically. So as far as I know, this load never made it much farther than the experimental stage. But it would have made one hell of a CQB load.

The next best load I can think of is the 75/77 gr cannelured match bullets loaded to milspec velocities.

After that, the Black Hills and Hornady commercial spec 75/77 gr match loads are very good.

+ 1 on the BH 75/77

Posted: 8/14/2005 8:09:05 PM EDT

[#8]

For small game and reactive targets such as watermelon, oranges, plastic jugs..........55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, They have a "exploding" result

Posted: 8/15/2005 12:30:29 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know most of the general stats and velocities, but after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round? By the way, I have read ammo-oracle, but I'm still not sure.

Read it again. It all depends on your requirements.

If you are planning on engaging bad guys from zero to 100 yards using a 14.5" to 16" barrel or longer with a twist rate no tighter than 1/9 then either Fed XM193 or Win Q3131A.

BZZZZZTTTTT!!!!! WRONG ANSWER!!!!

Posted: 8/15/2005 12:32:46 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
The most devastating round I ever saw in .223/5.56mm was the 100 gr load that Black Hills devised a couple of years ago. It had the shortest neck (distance traveled until yaw occurred) I've ever seen in this caliber and the most dramatic fragmentation. It also penetrated to ideal depths.

Unfortunately, the round had the trajectory of a brick being tossed by an elderly woman. Therefore out past 100 yds, it starts dropping pretty dramatically. So as far as I know, this load never made it much farther than the experimental stage. But it would have made one hell of a CQB load.

The next best load I can think of is the 75/77 gr cannelured match bullets loaded to milspec velocities.

After that, the Black Hills and Hornady commercial spec 75/77 gr match loads are very good.

For folks who have 1:9 twist barrels that won't stabilize the 75/77 gr loads sufficiently (some will, some won't), then I'd recommend the Black Hills 68 gr match or Winchester 64 gr Power Point Plus (or Winchester Ranger 64 gr Power Point).

-CH

DING DING!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!

Also add in the 69 grain Sierra to the 1/9 mix as well as 55 and 62 grain TBBC bullets for barrier penetration.

Posted: 8/15/2005 12:36:06 AM EDT

[#11]

LeMas..

Sorry, had to do it.

Posted: 8/15/2005 12:59:56 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
LeMas..

Sorry, had to do it.

Only appropriate for butt shots and pot roasts, rump roasts or other rump meats.

Posted: 8/15/2005 2:08:09 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round?

The one that takes them out of the fight of course .

Will 55gr 5.56 kill ya as well as a 62 or 80gr....
Hell yeah , in their fragmentation window . The
problem is that outside of a controlled environment
like they use for testing . It may not work as well .

Real combat is dynamic with variables that can change
from shot to shot . Depending on where you read it
the average number of rounds expended in Vietnam to kill one
enemy solder was as low as 50,000 and as high as 200,000 overall .
For the average soldier it was between 2000 - 8000 shots per kill .

So what’s the best round ...... Lots

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:02:10 AM EDT

[#14]

I wonder what would happen if you loaded 80 gr to 100 gr bullets with mil-spec chamber pressure/velocity...

If you're going past 700m I think it's better to just switch to a higher caliber.

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:37:11 AM EDT

[#15]

You can get a 77 gr bullet moving pretty fast.

I loaded up a couple that hit 2900 out of my DCM gun.
Scary high pressures, but It is possible. . . .

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:47:46 AM EDT

[#16]

M855 is the most devastating as far as troop morale!

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:27:30 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
You can get a 77 gr bullet moving pretty fast.

I loaded up a couple that hit 2900 out of my DCM gun.
Scary high pressures, but It is possible. . . .

I'm thinking of an uber-modified bull barrel where the upper receiver is re-designed to accept a thicker-walled chamber, and much thicker barrel to handle high pressure loads with heavy grain bullets (80gr-100gr). yes it'd be kind of heavy, but perhaps a 16"-18" barrel could be used ala SPR. Or we could always step up to good 'ol 7.62x51. LOL

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:28:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
M855 is the most devastating as far as troop morale!

It should be banned???

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:14:49 AM EDT

[#19]

That bluetip incendiary 5.56 at gunshows must be the most devastating.hock.gif

Posted: 8/15/2005 9:43:24 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Garlic coated, mercury filled Raufoss.

Only after rubbed on a poison arrow frog, of course. Otherwise it's useless.

Posted: 8/15/2005 3:19:15 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Garlic coated, mercury filled Raufoss.

Only after rubbed on a poison arrow frog, of course. Otherwise it's useless.

Of course, you could always use the depleted uranium 5.56mm +P+ Hollow Points and fill the tips with a Cobra Feces and anthrax slurry

Yeah Baby!!!

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:18:32 PM EDT

[#22]

With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

ETA I didn't know what I was talking about.

Posted: 8/15/2005 4:31:58 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

Posted: 8/15/2005 5:20:58 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know most of the general stats and velocities, but after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round? By the way, I have read ammo-oracle, but I'm still not sure.

Read it again. It all depends on your requirements.

If you are planning on engaging bad guys from zero to 100 yards using a 14.5" to 16" barrel or longer with a twist rate no tighter than 1/9 then either Fed XM193 or Win Q3131A.

BZZZZZTTTTT!!!!! WRONG ANSWER!!!!

It depends which question you're trying to answer:

1) What is the most devastating 5.56 round?

2) which is the best overall combat 5.56 round?

If you're answering #2 then I stand by my answer, especially when thinking about cost, availability, etc.

But if you're answering #1 then you are correct sir. You win one atta boy.

Posted: 8/15/2005 6:52:21 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

Posted: 8/15/2005 7:58:30 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:54:38 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Thanks for pointing out my error, it's apparantly a 6" neck.

Posted: 8/16/2005 10:43:56 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
That bluetip incendiary 5.56 at gunshows must be the most devastating.

Posted: 8/16/2005 11:29:14 AM EDT

[#29]

3....O....8

The 6.8 is possible if they ever get it off the ground. Otherwise, I would stick with the heavy 223 (68/69 or 75/77 gr) bullets and do 2 to the chest and one to the head.

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:11:39 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
That bluetip incendiary 5.56 at gunshows must be the most devastating.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/Incendiary.jpg i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/.jpg

Strange, ammotogo sells this exact same HE incendiary, same package and all, and some in this forum say it is fake. I've bought alot from them, but never tried this stuff. Looks tempting.

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:38:32 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That bluetip incendiary 5.56 at gunshows must be the most devastating.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/Incendiary.jpg i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/.jpg

Strange, ammotogo sells this exact same HE incendiary, same package and all, and some in this forum say it is fake. I've bought alot from them, but never tried this stuff. Looks tempting.

I picked those pics off their add in Gunbroker.

Posted: 8/16/2005 3:46:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Is it the same stuff, packaging and all, you see at the gunshows? Nevermind, that was 10mmPhil, but thanks for the reply.

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:12:12 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Thanks for pointing out my error, it's apparantly a 6" neck.

Please show me where you see this.

Posted: 8/16/2005 4:20:43 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Thanks for pointing out my error, it's apparantly a 6" neck.

Please show me where you see this.

I think he means this:

I believe, however, this is a pre-cannelure Sierra Match King 77gr.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:05:59 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Thanks for pointing out my error, it's apparantly a 6" neck.

Please show me where you see this.

I think he means this:
www.ammo-oracle.com/images/77grMKing.jpg

I believe, however, this is a pre-cannelure Sierra Match King 77gr.

That's were I got the idea of a long neck for 77 SMK. On my original reading I mistakingly assumed that the 12' marker was showing the lateral dispersement of bullet fragments. Thanks for calling me down on it. I don't want to spread mis-information on this board and would still like to know the average neck of MK262 before yaw if not 6".

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:12:58 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With a 12"+ neck how does 77 GR. SMK manage to damage anything, unless we're shooting at really fat people.

It has 12" of total penetrationand not a 12" neck... where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

The Ammo-oracle of course, look at the actual gel block test. It shows a 19" neck before yaw. I got the 12"+ from other posts. I'll test mk262 in wet news print for a comparison against other rnds. beforer I load up on the stuff. The long neck of 77 SMK is my only concern about using this ammo.

You NEED to read it again. It doesn't say that. The pictures don't show that.

Thanks for pointing out my error, it's apparantly a 6" neck.

Please show me where you see this.

I think he means this:
www.ammo-oracle.com/images/77grMKing.jpg

I believe, however, this is a pre-cannelure Sierra Match King 77gr.

That's were I got the idea of a long neck for 77 SMK. On my original reading I mistakingly assumed that the 12' marker was showing the lateral dispersement of bullet fragments. Thanks for calling me down on it. I don't want to spread mis-information on this board and would still like to know the average neck of MK262 before yaw if not 6".

IIRC, 1.5-2"

I'll have to look at my notes to be sure.

Edit - 1.6" is what we at BTammolabs got from our tests.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:40:46 PM EDT

[#37]

This site here, in session three, compares not just the 6.8 SPC, but the M855 rounds and the M262
77 grain Sierra in Gel tests. It is very interesting info!
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/2004arms.html

Posted: 8/16/2005 7:06:13 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
This site here, in session three, compares not just the 6.8 SPC, but the M855 rounds and the M262
77 grain Sierra in Gel tests. It is very interesting info!
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/2004arms.html

Excellent link. Thanks.

Posted: 8/16/2005 7:11:55 PM EDT

[#39]

Where is the best place to order BH 75/77 and any price check?

GTD

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:00:35 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
IIRC, 1.5-2"

I'll have to look at my notes to be sure.

Edit - 1.6" is what we at BTammolabs got from our tests.

Were those Hornady or Sierra?

Cannelure or not?

Posted: 8/16/2005 9:06:04 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Where is the best place to order BH 75/77 and any price check?

GTD

www.northwestloading.com

www.cabelas.com

Posted: 8/16/2005 10:45:04 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, 1.5-2"

I'll have to look at my notes to be sure.

Edit - 1.6" is what we at BTammolabs got from our tests.

Were those Hornady or Sierra?

Cannelure or not?

Look, it's late. I've had a triple martini...

It was a bullet. Going fast. It did bad things to the gel.

Posted: 8/17/2005 1:20:21 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
It was a bullet. Going fast. It did bad things to the gel.

Wow. The entire ammo oracle condensed into 3 short sentences. Only brouhaha could do that!

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:55:44 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Where is the best place to order BH 75/77 and any price check?

GTD

www.northwestloading.com

www.cabelas.com

Thanks much!
GTD

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:16:44 AM EDT

[#45]

the most devastating 5.56 round? 7.62x51.

Posted: 8/17/2005 5:57:47 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, 1.5-2"

I'll have to look at my notes to be sure.

Edit - 1.6" is what we at BTammolabs got from our tests.

Were those Hornady or Sierra?

Cannelure or not?

Look, it's late. I've had a triple martini...

It was a bullet. Going fast. It did bad things to the gel.

Superb analysis.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:05:03 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know most of the general stats and velocities, but after all is said and done, which is the best overall combat 5.56 round? By the way, I have read ammo-oracle, but I'm still not sure.

Read it again. It all depends on your requirements.

If you are planning on engaging bad guys from zero to 100 yards using a 14.5" to 16" barrel or longer with a twist rate no tighter than 1/9 then either Fed XM193 or Win Q3131A.

Same to you, the 68gr will be better then M193 or Q3131.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:13:37 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, 1.5-2"

I'll have to look at my notes to be sure.

Edit - 1.6" is what we at BTammolabs got from our tests.

Were those Hornady or Sierra?

Cannelure or not?

Look, it's late. I've had a triple martini...

It was a bullet. Going fast. It did bad things to the gel.

OK, so it was really a cannelured Sierra 77gr.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:14:11 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That bluetip incendiary 5.56 at gunshows must be the most devastating.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/Incendiary.jpg i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/AirCommando/.jpg

Strange, ammotogo sells this exact same HE incendiary, same package and all, and some in this forum say it is fake. I've bought alot from them, but never tried this stuff. Looks tempting.

It's advertised as HE, so it is fake, there is no such thing as an HE round in 5.56x45, if it was HE it would be an NFA item because it would be considered a DD. It's advertising designed to dupe idiots into thinking they are getting some super duper ammo.

Posted: 8/17/2005 6:47:33 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
The one you are most accurate with.

Agreed! Anything you can put in the bad guy's brain is best.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What is the most devastating 5.56 round? (Page 1 of 3)

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