User Panel
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:11:16 PM EDT
Discuss among yourselves....
Lake City XM-193 55 grain full metal jacket: Chamber pressure: 58145 PSI Mean pressure: 58145 PSI Maximum pressure: 63406 PSI Minimum pressure: 59614 PSI Range: 3793 PSI Standard Deviation: 1062 PSI Velocity: 3473 FPS Mean velocity: 3473 FPS Maximum velocity: 3492 FPS Minimum velocity: 3443 FPS Range: 49 FPS Standard deviation: 16 FPS 11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel. (1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.) (Special note: Sample fired in a .223 chamber for uniformity of testing and the fact that many users fire this ammunition in .223 rifles.) Accuracy 10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test. Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system. (All statistics given for 200 yard measurement) Group 1: 2.8 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.246 velocity: 2734 FPS Energy: 913 ft-lbs Power factor: 150.4 Group 2: 3.2 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0..251 velocity: 2720 FPS Energy: 904 ft-lbs Power factor: 149.6 American Eagle AE223 55 grain full metal jacket: Chamber pressure: 50300 PSI Mean pressure: 50300 PSI Maximum pressure: 51336 PSI Minimum pressure: 49239 PSI Range: 2098 PSI Standard Deviation: 717 PSI Velocity: 3261 FPS Mean velocity: 3261 FPS Maximum velocity: 3280 FPS Minimum velocity: 3246 FPS Range: 33 FPS Standard deviation: 12 FPS 11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel. (1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.) Accuracy 10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test. Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system. (All statistics given for 200 yard measurement) Group 1: 3.4 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.264 velocity: 2614 FPS Energy: 835 ft-lbs Power factor: 143.8 Group 2: (one flyer recorded) 6.2 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.257 velocity: 2593 FPS Energy: 821 ft-lbs Power factor: 142.6 Wolf Polymer 223 55 grain full metal jacket: Chamber pressure: 40389 PSI Mean pressure: 40389 PSI Maximum pressure: 43274 PSI Minimum pressure: 36661 PSI Range: 6612 PSI Standard Deviation: 2134 PSI Velocity: 3112 FPS Mean velocity: 3112 FPS Maximum velocity: 3155 FPS Minimum velocity: 3087 FPS Range: 68 FPS Standard deviation: 24 FPS 11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel. (1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.) Accuracy 10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test. Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system. (All statistics given for 200 yard measurement) Group 1: 7.0 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.241 velocity: 2395 FPS Energy: 701 ft-lbs Power factor: 131.7 Group 2: 7.2 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.244 velocity: 2378 FPS Energy: 691 ft-lbs Power factor: 130.8 Silver Bear 55 grain full metal jacket: Chamber pressure: 53727 PSI Mean pressure: 53727 PSI Maximum pressure: 57241 PSI Minimum pressure: 50066 PSI Range: 7355 PSI Standard Deviation: 2504 PSI Velocity: 3431 FPS Mean velocity: 3431 FPS Maximum velocity: 3485 FPS Minimum velocity: 3383 FPS Range: 102 FPS Standard deviation: 31 FPS 11 rounds fired from a Hart 20 inch test barrel. (1st round was a fouler and discarded from the sample.) Accuracy 10 rounds in two five-round groups were fired from a 1 in 12 twist, 20 inch, Wiseman v-block test barrel. 3 non-recorded foulers were used in each test. Accuracy measured at 200 yards with Ohler acoustic system. (All statistics given for 200 yard measurement) Group 1: 3.8 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.221 velocity: 2643 FPS Energy: 853 ft-lbs Power factor: 145.4 Group 2: 7.2 inches Ballistic co-efficient = 0.218 velocity: 2629 FPS Energy: 844 ft-lbs Power factor: 144.6 I have the results for Wolf 62 grain, but I'm waiting to match it against Federal's lowest common denomanator. Federal samples are pulled directly from loader checks. (For anyone that is interested. In the second American Eagle Group, if the flyer is removed, the 4 shot group is 4.2 inches) And for the number junkies: Temperature: 68 degrees F Humidity: 59% Altitude: 1000 feet Barometric pressure: 29.20 in Hg Wind speed: 1 MPH Wind direction: 6 O'clock |
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Wow!
Fed AE seems pretty hot loaded. Always thought the obligatory "3240 fps" was for 24" barrels... |
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The altitude has a bit of influence as well. Figure more like 3180 fps at sea level. Also, test barrels tend to be tightly chambered, which also increases pressure and velocity a bit. -Troy |
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Good info, thanks for the post. Probably best to wait on the xm193 numbers under the same conditions, same barrel before making any conclusions about AE's comparitive value.
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This may be old info but I did notice that Mirage Tech had the pdf files that gives the Federal specs on both the AE223 and the XM193. I'll try to see if I can get the link to work here.
AE223 VS XM193 Hope that worked. |
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I didn't work off a spec sheet. This is "live" data. I personally did the pressure and velocity tests, while a co-worker did the accuracy. (If I would have waited to do the acc. it would have taken a couple weeks longer to carve out the personal time to do these tests.) My personal thanks to LLarry!(No that isn't a typo.) |
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Troy has a point. I looked back and this barrel was on it's last legs. It had 3000 younds through it and was replaced 2 days after the XM193 sample was shot. Not many of us trash a barrel after six cases. |
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Note on ballistics data:
Silver Bear was a bitch to extract from the Pressure and Velocity barrel. |
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Bumping back up because folks keep asking the same questions.
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What is interesting to me, is while the Wolf chamber pressure is a good bit lower, the velocities are still somewhat respectable in my opinion.
Compare the M193 loading's chamber pressure to the Wolf chamber pressure. Even if the chamber of the test barrel is causing somewhat of a spike in chamber pressure and muzzle velocity, the Wolf stuff should be easier on throats over a duration of time. Sure, 223Rem is a pretty mild cartridge and barrels usually last a long time. But using wolf the throats and the barrel itself should last even longer. Only helps to reaffirm that if I want to go out plinking and blasting then I may very well look at Wolf more closely. Save all my good stuff for serious shooting be it competition or more serious work and keep the Wolf for fun stuff. |
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You did look at the accuracy data? Our test barrels hold .25" at 200 yards....Your average AR "might" hold 1 MOA... That gives you a potential GROUP of 9 inches with Wolf.. If you are happy with that... more power to you! |
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Sober now. Thank you for the info, it is excellent. I appreciate your taking your time in gathering and posting this. |
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My lovely wife used her skills at Excel to whip up a spreadsheet to make it a little easier for imbeciles like me who have no short term memory better comprehend this data.
download link is Here (download button is at the bottom of the page) Lemme know if it turns out. |
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I have some SilverBear for plinking ammo and I've had a failure to eject myself. Much hotter than Wolf...
TS |
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Tell her thanks for me. |
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Great post for those of us who like data. No surprises here for those that have used each.
LC XM193 is the hottest, most accurate and most expensive. Wolf is slowest, least accurate and least expensive. The gem is Silver Bear which specs near XM193 but is priced closer to Wolf. And if they get rid of the purple sealant it wouldn't have the FTE problems. Let's hope Silver Bear responds to the Western market like Wolf did when Wolf stopped using lacquer. |
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I think that the zinc oxide on the case makes it hard to extract. The stuff gets like sandpaper with even the mildest corrosion. |
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I had problems manually getting it out of a test barrel. |
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Thanks for the info. I shot it for the first time today and was pleased with the accuracy in my Varminter. Can't wait to try it in the 16 inch.
JRandyH |
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Hello Randy. Shot what?
Agreed about the corrosion. For me, Silver Bear is only cheap training ammo. But it, shoot it, but don't cache it. LC XM193 (and other M193) is rainy decade cached ammo. So for my uses it would be better without gobs of sealant. In 2002 (Russian) Wolf stopped using the same sealant and in 2004 they stopped using lacquer. And look how much thier market share has gone up as a result! I'm not debating whether Wolf is good here. (There are already about 20 threads debating Wolf at any given time.) I'm just saying that Wolf responded to the western consumer and sales have gone up as a direct result. |
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Anyone know the pressure specs for XM-193 when fired from a 5.56 NATO chamber? That 63K psi figure shows what can happen when you let off 5.56 pressure ammo in a .223 chamber. I'm just wondering if 5.56 pressure specs call for 55K psi? Higher? If so, how much higher?
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Well...this answers a lot of my questions. I've also seen the spec sheet PDF from Federal for the XM193. I chrono'd LOT-105 XM193 from my 16" Colt 6520 barrel in 1/7, and I averaged 3,249fps. I thought I was way too hot. Not really. People interchange the FPS spec the military uses (78ft from muzzle) with muzzle velocity. At 75ft (according to my ballistics calculator) it's doing 3,150 -- which is right on spec.
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You've got some serious accuracy problems with your setup. Is that supposed to be a solid repeatable platform? Seems a bit....."off."
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Those are 200 yd numbers, you caught that, didn't you? |
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