Does anyone here know if this is true. Also, I see now there is a %100 gaurentee.


www.ammunitionstore.com./



Mfg: Olympic, Greece (New Lot 100% guarantee)
MFG Date: 2004
Caliber: .223 Rem.
Bullet Type: 55 gr. M193 Ball (FMJ)
Primer: Boxer, non-corrosive
Box Quan: 50
Case Quan: 1000
Notes: Commercial ammo
Brass says 1999 but this ammo was put together
in 2004 for a US military contract, this is the overrun
from that contract.
Item #

I avoid all guns and ammo with the word "OLYMPIC" in the name.

Rob seems like a pretty honest guy. Do you think he was misinformed by Olympic?

Quoted: I avoid all guns and ammo with the word "OLYMPIC" in the name.

+1

Wow!  That'll make you go somewhere else to buy ammo.

Man, someone either goofed badly or spread the shit on thickly with that one. Olympic, a US contractor for ammo? Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Has anyone tried this ammo? Is it a new lot????

and 1999 brass for a 2004 contract.  Let's put it this way even for covert verisimilitude, this doesn't make sense.

I made the mistake of shooting some Oly ammo at the last training course I took.  Big mistake that almost cost me my Pre Ban Busy.  Ended up just costing me the cost of 1000 rounds of ammo, a new gas tube and new bolt carrier.  

I wouldnt wish this ammo on my worst enemy, if he was trying to shoot it, I wouldnt get the pleasure of killing him myself.

I am deleting my post because Dan fron dansammo.com has taken the time to address this matter.
Dan is a great guy to deal with so any questions should be directed to him.
Thanks,
Robert Custer

Robert,
I have learned that there are two things you canot trust the greeks with.....Your ass in the shower and their ammo. I tried this stuff in six different uppers all with problems stove pipes and FTE, had  a lot of
blown primers because of crapy primer crimps.  Different lots and the 62 grain. All my uppers are in spec and work fine with quality ammo. If this ammo is surplus,  there is a reason. Last time I ordered from you I ended up with a small credit because you guys did not want to take it back. I am not one to bitch on the board but this ammo has a bad reputation.
I am all for buying ammo and saving a buck, and everyone should make one. I would have to burn a 1,000 or two rounds with no problems before I could trust it. Are you willing to subject this stuff to a un-bias test  ?

[email protected]

Hi Robert,

I just want to clarify that the original intent of my post was simply to gather information and verify, not to invite people to flame. I know that many people, including myself, recognize the principles on which you run your business whether it be by word of mouth at gun shows or on many of the internet shooting forums. While I am surprised that Olympic, knowing their past quality problems, would have any part in US military contracts, I did not think that you had placed this information on your site without reason.

Take care, and travel safely.

gvidon212

Robert:

I agree there are alot of pieces of info which don't seem to add up regarding the Olympic ammo question.   However, those of us who have seen action know that there is no such thing as a stupid question.  If there has ever been an age to "think outside of the box" this is it.  

Take care!  Keep your head down and your powder dry. See you when you get back.

"Semper Fi",
USMC-0302

I wont be able to ad any information about the new lot of Olympic until after the 17th when I get back. I will try to have my computer guy call the importer and get information on why this lot is supposed to be better than the previous lots. Here is the PW Arms number for those who want to ask directly. Be sure to ask about the new lot that ammunitionstore is advertising if you call.

P.W. Arms, Incorporated
8525 152nd Avenue NE
Redmond, WA 98052
Phone  :  724 727 2648
Fax  :  724 727 2649

Robert

I wont be able to respond to this message board for over a week so see you after the 17th.

Please excuse me for my ignorance but what is the difference between the production lots with this Olympic ammo? I must admit I am a bit disconcerted to see that this stuff has such a bad reputation, due to the fact that I just bought 2000 rounds of it from the Sportsmans Guide . What makes this stuff so bad? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

I have not had personal experience with the ammo but a lot of people had problems because the brass was of different lengths from round to round and out of spec. I believe many of the issues are noted in the ammo FAQ or will be brought up by a simple search.

What makes this stuff so bad?

I don't know that it is "so bad"; I have never tried it.

Do your required reading. When you finish with the AMMO FAQ read this.


Ammo review

If what you have looks OK then shoot it and see if it works.

Quoted: Robert, I have learned that there are two things you canot trust the greeks with.....Your ass in the shower and their ammo. I tried this stuff in six different uppers all with problems stove pipes and FTE, had  a lot of blown primers because of crapy primer crimps.  Different lots and the 62 grain. All my uppers are in spec and work fine with quality ammo. If this ammo is surplus,  there is a reason. Last time I ordered from you I ended up with a small credit because you guys did not want to take it back. I am not one to bitch on the board but this ammo has a bad reputation. I am all for buying ammo and saving a buck, and everyone should make one. I would have to burn a 1,000 or two rounds with no problems before I could trust it. Are you willing to subject this stuff to a un-bias test  ? [email protected]

What the hell are you talking out of your ass for?   The Greek surplus 30.06 was some of the best out here.  I still saved a case in my basement for SHTF.  Their surplus 308 was also excellent.  As for Olympic, maybe they had some bad batches or something, I dont know, but I had 500 rnds of the stuff (headstamped Winchester for some reason, in 50rnd boxes) that worked great.  Never a problem.  I think some people dont feel good unless they flame something/someone.

I usually buy ammo from The Ammunition Store at local gunshows, I buy from AIM and Centerfire through the mail.  They are the best and easiest to order/buy from.

Could be true, could be false...

We ARE in the middle of 'The Great US Military Ammo Scramble', now that Lake City can't make it as fast as it gets shot....

IMI is making ammo for us...

The Greeks are another NATO country, not involved in a war right now... Perhaps there is a contract...

Or perhaps it's ...

First thought about this, is the same as Troys!

Paint an object black and stencil "SEAL", "SWAT", or "G.I." on it and the crap will sell.

Based upon persona experience with Olympic, shared experiences on the range and during training, comparing notes with other professionals that train and shoot a lot, and then finally the comments of the intrepid crew here.....

Olympic ammo is a crap shoot.

That isn't to say that the QA/QC problems of the past, and known current issues, cannot fade quickly if Olympic got their feces coagulated, and knuckled under the whip of having a U.S. DOD contract with D.O.D oversight and QA/QC standards.

If the friggin Ruskies can make elcheapo ammo that is hotly debated, but is mostly reliable(Despite the minor issues)  then an advanced society with modern machinery can crank out good ammo......... IF they are so inspired to do so.

With Lake City at max production, and IMI at max production and still a void exists(Seemingly?)
Why not the Greeks?

I'm crossing the fingers this one is true.
However being once bitten and all.

It's easy enough to test and plan to do so.
If the ammo turns out to be crap and BS advertising garbage yet again, I hope that Olympic understands completely that they have no chance of thereafter gaining any credibility with me, and the guys who will be witnessing the stuff being tested.

Everyone rates a second chance.

If it's Crap. It's crap.

I smell a fertilizer truck myself, but what the hell.

S-28

I gotta vote that the US military wouldnt accept ammo with the wrong datestamp on the brass. I also gotta say who is PWA to be making these claims? They dont manufacture ammo and as close as they get is what someone told them so this info is fourth hand at best.

Well, we will have to wait and see what comes up. Hopefully someone with time tomorrow will call and verify.

Robert,

While I don't question you or your intent, I still feel your supplier has fed you a load of shit. The US Military has very tough standards when it comes to the ammo they use. The only two suppliers of M855 I've ever known them to use is USGI and IMI. Why? Because it's made to their specs and is quality stuff, unlike Olympic which is about the worst ammo I've ever seen. It is total junk. So I just cannot see the US Military giving them a contract for anything.

I have an open mind and since the US is in need of ammo, I'll give you every benefit of the doubt for now. But knowing what I know about ammo, Olympic and the US military, I still find this claim HIGHLY unlikely. If the US really needed extra ammo that desperately, there are lots of other companies such as Winchester and Remington (who are proven) who would much more likely get the contract. Unlike some of the shooters here who buy Olympic and Wolf because it's cheaper, the DoD has very deep pockets. If the US was penny pinching on war materials, we'd just drop our M1A2 tank program and buy T-72's from the Russians.

Again, I don't post this with the intent to flame, but I just think you have been given some really bad info. It happens all the time. I can't recall the ads I've seen regarding ammo being "official" this or that, which just wasn't true. About the only thing Olympic ammo has in common with USGI spec ammo is the SS109 bullet seated in the cases. So again, I'll have to see hardcore evidence to change my mind. But for now, I think hell would freeze over before the DoD would buy Olympic ammo for our troops. That is unless of course they are buying it for the sole purpose of teaching recruits to clear stoppages. LOL. Then it would be perfect.

-CH

Quoted: Two things: 1- The Olympic ammo that is 55grain is really out of spec and is totally horrible. 2- The Olympic M855/SS109 is in fact NATO head stamped (you cant just stamp that symbol on there without approval) and I HEAR its good stuff. Perhaps they make the M855 the right way?

Point 1: Absolutely.  Terrible garbage.

Point 2: People put _far_ too much value on the NATO symbol.  Even the US has used it on non-NATO-spec ammunition (eg, I've been issued M193 loaded in LC 00 or 01 cases with the NATO circled-cross).

I have absolutely no confidence in Olympic's quality control.  If we are in fact buying ammunition from them for military use I'll be contacting my Congressman to inform him of Olympic's poor track record and ask that he inquire as to why we are not only endangering our troops, but putting money into the pockets of a country that has not only opposed us over the war in Iraq, but has also worked against US interests repeatedly in the past.

I'm kinda new here, but,  is'nt 5.56 what the military uses?  If I may, whats the difference between 5.56 & .233.  I have .233 bore, and I've been told its o.k. to shoot 5.56 in it by as many people that told me its not o.k.,  what's up with that?

Putting aside for the moment the absolutely stand-alone, terrible real-world experiences AR15 shooters on this board have had with Olympic ammo:  Why would there be a "contract overrun" for ammo in the current wartime climate, when the US mil is grabbing every possible round of milspec, mil contract-produced ammo they possibly can?

Dave_A, captainpoolay, M4_Aiming_at_U,Troy,Chuck,gvidon212,markm,chorton,Oslow,Charging_Handle,archad,PaDanby,PSYWAR1,Vegasdude36,USMC,0302,Kingfish&S-28

We are an ammunition vendor reading this thread on Olympic ammo. We have bought and sold the Greek Olympic .223 -commercial- in the past. We would have to say the quality and performance were unacceptable. Yeah it sucked.
Hesitant at first, we tested the newest lot of M193 ball, that has been recently imported here. This ammo is from a past military contract (no, not US). Older Military vs newer commercial. Is it different?
To the above mentioned members and anyone else that we missed who posted on this thread before us: Please email us your address -use Olympic as the subject-and we would like to send you a few sample boxes for you to t&e.
sincerely,
Dan
Dan's Sporting Goods
724-727-2648
[email protected]
www.dansammo.com
 

Quoted: The importer that gave me this information is PW Arms one of the largest importers in the country. Why would you flame me and my ad on ammunitionstore.com without any facts to the contrary. I have to leave the country for Bosnia and Poland to inspect weapons and ammunition for a US government contract on Tuesday. That’s right I might know what I am talking about. I am going to take lots of pictures while I am away. If any of you want to flame me and say I am full of BS  I will have a wealth of FACTS to post when I get back in ten days. When customers have a problem with our product I fix them. I am really tired of looking at these mindless flames. I have taken back allot of product due to malfunctioning rifles i.e. light primer hits etc... My ad is true, it is 100% guaranteed. If you have a problem with the ammo I send you a UPS label at my cost and refund or exchange. Is that such a hard concept. I have 18 employees, pay taxes, pay unemployment insurance etc... I know that some of you out their live to flame people on message boards but I do not deserve it. When I get back I am going to ask PW Arms for some kind of contract statement to back up the claims that it was part of a batch sent to Iraq. Please in the future you can ask me for documentation before you flame something you have no knowledge on. Regards, Robert Custer

Robert:

It's good to see you are checking the forums. You might want to set up a dealer account to more easily indentify yourself.

As far as the current discussion goes, I have no knowledge about the ammo being used for the US military. What I do have, however, is the input of a lot of people who contribute to the ammunition review poll. In that poll, Olympic has ranked dead last for as long as I can remember. There have been a TON of problems with it - and they're not due to malfunctioning rifles. Not when there's such a high failure rate anyway.

It would be interesting to know what the importer has to say about all of this - I can certainly tell you that due to the reviews, it's costing him a lot of sales.

Quoted: .... we tested the newest lot of M193 ball, that has been recently imported here. This ammo is from a past military contract (no, not US).

OK, now that makes sense.

Dan,

Here's the gig, and I am posting this in public becfause I do NOT want anyone to inferr or suspect...

Will need 2  1/2 cases of the stuff.

500 rounds of different lots each.

The ammo will be run through the chronograph at random intervals.
(Ammo will be opened, and dumped into a large container and 30 rounds will be drawn at random per 500.)

Be advised, pressure readings will be also taken, as will performance in 10% gel.


If the stuff is crap or the same non-U.S. spec M193 fake as has been foisted upon the innocent in the past,  don't expect any comment other than a simple "Mule Fritters!".

1,000 rounds is nothing compared to the volume burned by the folks here in a combined and averaged weekend.

In the past the people have mentioned that the Olympic ammo is wanting to say the least.

As a collective, and disregarding the Mynah birds that are no doubt present, I have my concerns over receiving "Hand picks".

A better settlement would be to send 2 lots of 500 that are all different to each independent receipient.

If that is not possible due to new lots being limited, please share the fact.

It may sound like I'm going for the throat, but I am not.

After getting burned, folks need positive and overwhelming reassurance they ain't gonna get burned again in order to gain trust.

Americans are goofy that way.

My E-mail addy is obviously available.
Be advised that I am deeply connected to another Board that is controversial in it's content, but aligned in the matter of reliability and dedication to the debate that we all fuss over.


Holler if you wish.
Be glad to put more dents in the gello table and drain another battery in the chrono.


Just don't expect anything other than BRUTAL honesty.

S-28

Gentlemen,

I have read this thread with great interest. I am a shooter first and a vendor second.

As one of the newer members of these boards, but not to the AR-15 as a hobby or business, I wish to add my comments to this Olympic ammunition issue before it gets blown all out of all proportion.

Some sales organizations will, and have used terms that are improper and used way out of their original context. I see that "Talk first,...shoot later!... may have affected one of my collegues that in fact, is an ammunition (store) vendor.

We are all familiar with the old issues of introducing a new product. We all remember the bad reports following the first field issue and use of our beloved AR-15 (M-16). That was a fiasco if there ever was a fiasco.

My Father and I (age 14) ordered our first AR from Montgomery Ward's in 1967. It was mailed to our home in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio directly from Ward’s warehouse in Chicago, Illinois.   Those were the good old days! Since 1967 there has ALWAYS been an AR in my home.

I had to defend that little “Black Rifle” from almost the first time we took it to the local range. Defending the “Mattie Mattel Mouse Gun” was not always an easy task. We were “snickered” at in the early days. People would say, ‘That rifle looks like a plastic toy, and we hear they have problems with them in Viet Nam!”

My Father and I stuck it out. We knew someone was on to something big with this new design, and we wanted to be the first to be a part of it. We believed in that weapon THEN, and I believe in that weapon NOW!.

As it with the Mr. Stoner’s AR-15, when we speak of THIS LOT of Olympic we have some improvements to talk about.

In the past importations, Olympic 5.56 was horrible, and it left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. We were caught up in selling this crap too.  Today we sell pallets of Federal and Winchester 5.56 and we are happy with the performance. Why would anyone expect anything better with this lot of Olympic?  Not Me! When the importer told me that this was different ammo manufactured to military specs, I was no different than anyone else.

I did not want any of this ammo, but with the worldwide crunch on 5.56 I was willing to try again. We ALL need cheaper blasting ammo. I decided  I would give it a torture test in my own equipment

With all of this in my head I proceeded to  “torture” test 1000 rounds of THIS LOT (contract) of Olympic in a factory original 11 inch M-16A2, my old trusty SP-1, a seldom fired 15A2 HBAR, a FILTHY Bushmaster, and a newly completed Eagle Arms parts gun. I used every magazine from Colt to plastic, steel to aluminum, and we even threw in a “Beta”. I ran them cold, I ran them cherry red. I left them smoking. I made that old M-16 sing the opera with that Beta, and it was in perfect tune..

Honestly, I expected failure.  As it was we had no FTC, no FTF, no FTE, …NO PROBLEMS.

My favorite benefit of this ammo was that it was ...CLEAN! No FILTHY weapons.

I honestly feel an opportunity for the members of ARFCOM to purchase some very fine ammunition at very special pricing is at hand.  If the extremely knowledgeable members of AR-15.com receive too many bits of disinformation, seasoned with old prejudices, the issue opportunity will pass into oblivion.

My comments after this simple testing are directed to this NEW LOT, and ONLY this NEW LOT of OLYMPIC 5.56x45 NATO (.223) M193 Military Contract ammunition. We have already tested an use Olympics 7.62x39 and have found it to be superb ammunition.

In closing, my old friend Tom Procassio who is the owner of Pro Gun and I have been playing with guns since we were in grade school. We both are into firearms as a business. Pro Gun has a full service shop, a state of the art 25yard indoor range and a reputation to protect. With everything at risk our motto has always been….

    "Shoot first,…talk later!”


I am not the scientific guy and my simple testing is done.  The ammo worked well.

This ammo has a 100% Money Back GUARANTEE?  Try it.


Sincerely,


Bob Williams

Pro Gun and Sports Supply / Riverside Indoor Range / Akron Armory
2419 Front Street
Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio  44221
330.923.6337

Ps… Would someone please answer my email that was sent to “webmaster’. I am interested in becoming a dealer, even if Todd and Campy keep telling me I should be a “Partner”.

How much of this "good" Oly ammo is available?  When it is gone, will the same old crappy Oly "M193" be substituted  for the good stuff on future orders.

I am very wary that someone has found a small lot of Oly that actually works, and is using it to sucker us again.

The easiest way to solve this is to send some to Troy and B&T Ammo Labs for a test.

ya know...a week prior to this thread i asked about this ammo and got 3 or 4 near flames "read the ammo oracle" and "olympic is crap"  i hope those guys are reading this after jumping down my throat.

Quoted: How much of this "good" Oly ammo is available?  When it is gone, will the same old crappy Oly "M193" be substituted  for the good stuff on future orders. I am very wary that someone has found a small lot of Oly that actually works, and is using it to sucker us again.

ar-wrench,

This ammo is identifiable by the "NPA 99" headstamp. I would purchase only this headstamp.

Bob

S-28,
Need your other addy.

Amen Troy.

I, like most people, would rather pay less to get something roughly equal to another item that costs more. That's just economics in it's simplest terms. If accuracy isn't bad but not quite as good, that's still ok. If it's 25 fps slower on average than the more expensive product, that's ok too. I will buy the cheaper stuff to blast with and the higher quality stuff for more serious affairs.

But if the ammo is so out of spec that it causes your weapon to malfunction frequently or is even so out of spec that it borders dangerous, that's an entirely different manner. That unfortunately is the reputation Olympic has earned. Their failure to correct these issues early on only made it worse. Therefore it will take years and years for them to un-do that which has already been done. It is extremely difficult to build a reputation. But it's so easy to destroy one in 5 minutes or less.

So when people question Olympic's quality or sincerity, it is only as a result to past experiences people have had with their product. It isn't because any of us have an interest in singling out and bashing any particular company. We aren't snobs who bash ammo because it's cheap and we feel "too good" to use it. It's simply a mistrust. That's justified.

I can only hope that Olympic does get matters taken care of soon. I hope they get the quality up to a level where we can trust it to serve as practice ammo and for training. It would make me happier if it could be brought up to a level of quality of USGI. If and when that happens, I'll be most happy to purchase a few thousand rounds of the stuff. But I'm afraid it's going to take more than one good lot to convince me to do so when there are hundreds of lots of crap that left their doors in the past. So my message to Olympic is to pretend I'm from Missouri and "show me". The reports of the quality of the ammo they produce over the next year or so will determine whether I buy any of their products in the future. It's their job to convince me through actions, not words.

-CH

PS....I'm happy that all the dealers are participating in these threads. Let me take this moment to say none of my comments are meant to flame or bad-mouth you guys. I'm simply making reference to the company. I can in no way hold you folks responsible for something you didn't make and only sell. I'll even take it a step further and say that if I ever buy defective ammo from any of you, I will not return it if it's widely known to have problems. It's my job as a consumer to make informed purchases. Therefore if I goof I will only hold one person responsible.....me. That's just how I am and how I operate.

Quoted: The easiest way to solve this is to send some to Troy and B&T Ammo Labs for a test.

I think this is an excellent idea...I'm an optimist at heart, but I just won't believe it until I see it.

So, let me get this straight...

"NPA 01" was dreadful crap.  The "01" being 2001...

"NPA 99" (1999, presumably) is supposed to be better stuff?  Or for some bizarre unexplained reason Olympic set aside thousands upon tens (hundreds?) of thousands of properly formed "NPA 99" cases for 5 years before loading them in a correct and fully functional manner?

Or they're stamping 2004 production rounds "NPA 99" to confuse al Qaeda, or John Kerry, or the Easter Bunny?

I can't abide Missouri, but I'm more than willing---I'm insistent in fact---that someone "show me" this stuff isn't more of the same horrid shite that was dumped on the US civilian market previously.  "Cause until then, I see no reason not to believe it's crap.  Unreliable worthless crap at best, dangerous garbage in the worst case.

Olympic is garbage.  Prove me wrong.  I doubt you will.

FWIW, I avoided Olympic basically cause everyone else said to.  I never shot it in my life.  But I trust the members on this board to be objective.  So as a consumer, if they say it's ok, my money is waiting to be spent on it.

Quoted: That's why Dan is sending me some ammo to evaluate.  He's looking for an objective review, and that's what I'm going to provide.  Trust me, the ammo vendors don't want to deal with the hassle of lousy ammo anymore than we do. -Troy

He offered to send me some as well and I accepted with the caveat that I may be busy dealing with Ivan for a bit.
I dont have any previous experience with Olympic ammo but I do hunt for, and shoot, surplus stuff all the time. The best deal I ever got was some Guatemalan surplus that was all green and corroded and dented for less than a dime a round. It shot so great I bought all he had left so I have no qualms with any ammo as long as shoots well and is a good deal.
When I get it I'll shoot it and post a shooters unscientific report here.
Cross your fingers that Ivan passes us by.

AGC,
NPA 99 was made and loaded in 1999 under a military contract and was delivered to a foriegn country. Recently a part of this lot has been sold off as surplus and imported here to the US.
There has been NPA 00 & 01, made commercialy sold and imported here by a few different companies. Most manufacturers we know can make military or premium grade and make a cheap generic grade also. The commercial Olympic was cheap to the point of being unreliable (crap).
My own rifles will not feed and function with the crap. We have tried the 99. We would like to send you a sample to see if you think there is a difference in what was once supplied to a military and what was commercial available (dumped)here in the US.  

Quoted: So, let me get this straight... "NPA 01" was dreadful crap.  The "01" being 2001... "NPA 99" (1999, presumably) is supposed to be better stuff?  Or for some bizarre unexplained reason Olympic set aside thousands upon tens (hundreds?) of thousands of properly formed "NPA 99" cases for 5 years before loading them in a correct and fully functional manner? Or they're stamping 2004 production rounds "NPA 99" to confuse al Qaeda, or John Kerry, or the Easter Bunny? I can't abide Missouri, but I'm more than willing---I'm insistent in fact---that someone "show me" this stuff isn't more of the same horrid shite that was dumped on the US civilian market previously.  "Cause until then, I see no reason not to believe it's crap.  Unreliable worthless crap at best, dangerous garbage in the worst case. Olympic is garbage.  Prove me wrong.  I doubt you will.

AGC,

I honestly salute you out of the deepest respect. You have experienced poor quality and you have an opinion and a right to that opinion. My opinion was absolutly the same as yours.

It is wonderful to see people that do not sway back and forth like a palm tree in Orlando, Florida.  You are a man with conviction. Only time will tell if you are satisfied that there IS a difference in the various offerings from Olympic.

Stand firmly and let the story unfold.

But,...I hate to start more controversy when I inform you that,.....al Qaeda, John Kerry. and the Easter Bunny.  ALL THE SAME!  hanks
Bob