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Posted: 9/26/2003 2:56:10 PM EDT
[#1]
In 55gr, the hottest would probably be Federal XM-193. It seems to be loaded a little hotter than the Winchester Q3131/Q3131A. Yes, Q3131 is still available as Q3131A, made in Israel instead of the U.S. I still see U.S.-made Q3131 in shops sometimes but Q3131A is identical and newer.
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Posted: 9/26/2003 4:09:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Ditto on the XM193 I loaded some of each alternately in a mag and shot 20 rounds and there is a distinctive difference in both noise and recoil. The XM193 was noticeably louder and kicked more.
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Posted: 10/4/2003 4:42:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Back when I had the Q3131 I bought some Q3131A to compare. I shot them side by side in two different rifles and found that the Q3131 was between 75-90 fps faster. Maybe this just an accepted deviation from batches...Maybe if I tried different batches a little later I would have found them just the opposite.
As for the XM193...I saw a picture of a box and it said that it had a steel case. Is this like the Wolf? If so I find it curious that so many bash Wolf but not the Federal issue ammo. What about the IMI M193? I saw some at Botach. 3215 ft./Sec. Not considering the price...what seems to be the choice between these 3? |
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Posted: 10/4/2003 5:04:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Back when I had the Q3131 I bought some Q3131A to compare. I shot them side by side in two different rifles and found that the Q3131 was between 75-90 fps faster. Maybe this just an accepted deviation from batches...Maybe if I tried different batches a little later I would have found them just the opposite. That happens. You probably had a bad batch of Q3131A. As for the XM193...I saw a picture of a box and it said that it had a steel case. Is this like the Wolf? If so I find it curious that so many bash Wolf but not the Federal issue ammo. A couple of things here: You're either mistaken about what you saw, or Whoever advertised the XM193 is FOS. It is most definitely NOT steel cased. In fact, the XM193 is some of the best brass available for reloading. What about the IMI M193? I saw some at Botach. 3215 ft./Sec. Not considering the price...what seems to be the choice between these 3? The IMI 193 is the same as Q3131A. Both are made in Israel by IMI, but the Q3131A is packaged by Winchester. Between the 3, I'd choose the XM193 first, followed by the Q3131A. Only Botach sells the IMI stuff, so it tends to be slightly more expensive for the same product. Plus some of their business practices are questionable. Q3131 is no longer produced. |
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Posted: 10/4/2003 5:57:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Yep, your right. That XM193 is terrible stuff. Don't buy any. ;-)
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Posted: 10/5/2003 7:14:52 AM EDT
[#6]
too late cmbmw...
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Posted: 10/5/2003 8:53:43 AM EDT
[#7]
Had a chance to Crono some Q3131a and xm193 out of my 16" RRA M4fgry last weekend.....Fired 20 rounds of each and the Xm193 ran a High of 2999fps with a spread of 52fps and the Q3131a ran 2956fps high with a 38fps spread. Both grouped from 1"-1.75" with my 4x ACOG...............UNDERDOG
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Posted: 10/5/2003 9:09:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Brou, I must respectfully disagree, re: a bad batch of Q3131A. I still have a couple of boxes from lots of Q3131 circa the 1999 era. It consistently shoots 60 - 100 fps faster than similar ammo from three lots of Q3131A and two lots of XM193. The muzzle velocity averages were taken over an Oehler 35p out of three different 16" rifles. This stuff is smokin' hot and very, very accurate.
I recall a lot of complaints on this board about this stuff back in 1999 or thereabouts, stating it was too hot, but never experienced any of those problems myself. It runs fine in Colt or BM. Quite frankly, if I could have any M193, Q3131 would be the one I would choose, hands down, given my testing and experiences. |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 9:47:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Between the 3, I'd choose the XM193 first, followed by the Q3131A. [red]Only Botach sells the IMI stuff, so it tends to be slightly more expensive for the same product.[/red] Plus some of their business practices are questionable. Botach has IMI M193 for $189/1000, free shipping. That's about the same as I've been paying for Q3131A, sometimes you can find XM 193 for a little less. That said, FUCK BOTACH! (and RGUNS!) |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 10:55:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Botach has IMI M193 for $189/1000, free shipping. That's about the same as I've been paying for Q3131A, sometimes you can find XM 193 for a little less. Look again. That price is for [b]1,200[/b] rounds, not 1,000. -Troy |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 1:41:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks Troy.
I stand corrected. I knew that sounded wrong, I was thinking that BT had a good price on the IMI. I just refuse to deal with them for other reasons. |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 5:14:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Fox-
that sounds just like I was experiencing. I compared the Q3131A and Q3131 (among others) in a 16" and 20" barrel on the same day. This was in 99' Both my rifles were chambered in .223. I had a problem with the Q3131 Failing to extract about every 20 rounds. I called Winchester and they said it would only fire in a 5.56 chamber. I talked to several gunsmiths and manufacturers and they told me that the problem was with the ammo and there wasn't enough difference in the chamber to matter. So that was the end of it. I now have 5.56 chambers and wanted to try it again. Just as a note...My Q3131 chrono'd an average 3135fps (16") and 3203fps(20")on a 52degF day and 6300' altitude. |
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Posted: 10/5/2003 5:54:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Ima, all of my chambers are 5.56 and I have never had an FTF with any of them. I went back through my notes and my Q3131 averaged 3,129 fps out of 16". The best I ever got out of the Q3131A and XM193 was 3,037 and 3,050 fps, respectively. Since the accuracy was as good or better with the Q3131, I will take that additional 70 - 80 fps, anytime. Unfortunately, the Q3131 is no longer available.
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Posted: 10/6/2003 2:57:47 PM EDT
[#14]
I never noticed the Q3131 being more accurate but it was on the faster side for me also [50 to 70 fps] faster but i ran out last dec .On to the next batch . I now like the fed /lc XM193 best .When you get to my age you get used to things never being as good as they were in old days,you realy arent going to like the way things change with women as they age.
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Posted: 10/6/2003 7:57:01 PM EDT
[#15]
This may be a dumb question, but...this discussion so far has only been mentioning 55 grain bullets. Is that because higher grain bullets are larger? If so, how do you know what grain bullets will fit in what guns?
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Posted: 10/6/2003 8:13:45 PM EDT
[#16]
The 55 gr are good in 1 in 12" twist rate barrels.
The 69 gr and long bullets can be stabalized in a faster twist, like 1 in 9". The Malasian ammo that was around ~5 years ago did 3300 fps from a 14" barrel [55 gr]. |
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Posted: 10/6/2003 10:23:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: This may be a dumb question, but...this discussion so far has only been mentioning 55 grain bullets. Is that because higher grain bullets are larger? If so, how do you know what grain bullets will fit in what guns? [url]www.ammo-oracle.com[/url] -Troy |
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Posted: 10/6/2003 10:38:57 PM EDT
[#18]
yeah Troy...that is a great site, I read the whole thing before making any posts in the ammo section. I don't think it talked about this though.
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