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Posted: 8/19/2003 11:29:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Lake City M196 tracer. Likely from the late 60s or early 70s.
-Troy |
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Posted: 8/20/2003 9:33:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I think this can get muddy. As I understand it, there was a "recent" ruling that LC red tip had to be "de-militarized". This meant that each round had to be dis-assembled into individual pieces (bullet-casing-powder-primer), and then could be re-assembled by a non-military distributer. Further question arises around whether the new assembly contains the original powder or must be a new mixture from a separate source. I'm thinking your source could have either older or this newer combination depending on the year that was included with the LC stamp. What is the year on the headstamp and, more important, have you checked the "bible" on this topic from http://www.ammo-oracle.com/
? |
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Posted: 8/20/2003 9:36:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Since 97, when Klinton changed the rules, small arms and related items have to be de-mil'ed. But lots of loaded ammo was surplussed before that, and given the age of this ammo, it isn't unusual to find some. It's just not very common anymore, since nothing new is coming in to replace what gets shot up.
-Troy |
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Posted: 8/20/2003 10:58:56 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't understand why people would pay such outrageous prices for tracers when the could by the usgi projectiles for dirt cheap and reload their own. you can get 500 red tip's for 45 bucks easy www.hi-techammo.com [stick]
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Posted: 8/21/2003 7:38:21 AM EDT
[#5]
"I don't understand why people would pay such outrageous prices for tracers. "
With NO guarantee they will work! |
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Posted: 8/21/2003 2:01:12 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't reload. Haven't ordered them either. Decided I didn't need them as I don't have the range to really use them. But for someone who's new to AR's, tracers are kinda cool.
I have some AP/I/T rnds w/LC & the NATO cross on the headstamp. Didn't notice if there was a date. Will try one of these out next time I go out. The incendiary/starburst might be cool if it works. |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 12:10:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Note that tracer compound detoriates quite fast
and chances are that those red tips dated back in the 60's or 70's won't trace at all. The new M866 orange tips though more expensive will trace 90 percent of the time. I know that because I have fired a few hundreds of those M866. LRRPS. |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 2:22:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: I have some AP/I/T rnds w/LC & the NATO cross on the headstamp. Didn't notice if there was a date. Will try one of these out next time I go out. The incendiary/starburst might be cool if it works. What caliber are these? No such thing exists in 5.56mm. -Troy |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 3:05:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I might get some red tipped .223 tracer rounds. The seller says they are stamped LC. Is this Lake City? 50 rnds for under $20 + post. thanks! It should be "LC" + two digits. (LC 00, LC 01) or something. The two digits are the year (00 = 2000, etc.) That's important to know with tracers because, as mentioned above, they deteriorate quickly. |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 8:32:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Not sure if it applies any more but I believe Winchester used to offer M855 and M856 to LE, packaged in white boxes. Anyway, a local shop had a case each of Winchester M855 and M856. I ended up buying one box (stuff was expensive at $13 a box) of the tracer stuff since it had 96 headstamps with the nato cross. The product code was Q3270 and the label on the box was:
5.56mm (60) FMJ M856 TRACER Since Federal took over the operations at military ammo factories, I would assume Winchester doesn't offer this stuff anymore. |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 8:50:54 PM EDT
[#11]
[b]
Quoted: Quoted: I have some AP/I/T rnds w/LC & the NATO cross on the headstamp. Didn't notice if there was a date. Will try one of these out next time I go out. The incendiary/starburst might be cool if it works. What caliber are these? No such thing exists in 5.56mm. -Troy Troy, I have some of the 5.56 incendiary as well that I got at a gun show. I passed on the incendiary/startburst until I checked out how the incendiary works. In 7.62x39 I have some incendiary and starburst rounds. I haven't tried any of the rounds yet, but I imagine the small 5.56 incendiary would only be a little more active than a tracer round. We'll see, and hopefully everything will go safely. I've never been successful posting pics, but I can snap a few pics of the rounds if you're interested. |
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Posted: 8/28/2003 10:29:33 PM EDT
[#12]
The "APIT" stuff sold for the 5.56 is not U.S. issue. It may be stuffed in surplus cases, but there is no G.I. issue "API" or "APIT" in 5.56MM
A lot of that stuff is cooked up by the same folks that make the weird shotgun loads, and is packaged in five or ten round baggies.. I would not waste my money on this stuff. Also, according to info I have, currently the smallest U.S. issue ammuniton one might find API/APIT in shootable quantity is .50 BMG. Regarding the LC tracer, I've found this stuff frequently, and it tends to be 70 to 80% reliable in trace ignition, though the burn rate with some of the trace coumpounds was inducing instability with long shots. ("Fumer" theory perhaps..) Meplat- |
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Posted: 9/4/2003 11:25:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Not sure if it applies any more but I believe Winchester used to offer M855 and M856 to LE, packaged in white boxes. Anyway, a local shop had a case each of Winchester M855 and M856. I ended up buying one box (stuff was expensive at $13 a box) of the tracer stuff since it had 96 headstamps with the nato cross. The product code was Q3270 and the label on the box was: 5.56mm (60) FMJ M856 TRACER This is what you're talking about, and what Tatjana and I used in our latest gelatin experiment tacked at the top of the ammo forum. [img]www.btammolabs.com/WinM856a.jpg[/img] |
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