Hi, All.  I need some good hi power 9mm ammo that is reasonable in cost.  I need it for pins, as my normal Winchester Value Pack rounds are too anemic to send pins flying off the table.  Any ideas?

Winchester Ranger (Law Enforcement stuff). I carry the 127gr +p+. Says law enforcement only on the box but anyone can have it if they can find it.

Try the Fiocchi 123gr fmj truncated cone round.  It's loaded to 1250fps.

http://www.fiocchiusa.com/centerfire.htm

This is an excellent round. I would go with this.  The Italian made ammo is better than the stuff made in Arkansas though.

Any time you see this ammo for sale, GO FOR IT, and go fast!

Hirtenberger +P+
[url]http://catalog.jgsales.com/itemdetail.php?itemnumber=5-524c[/url]

They’re out of it now.  But when they had it in stock I bought 3K as fast as I was able to dial up the phone.

If you want powerful, you can’t beat this ammo.

Pass on the FMJ stuff for pins. It tends to pass completely through them...seen it many, many times. The wider and sharper the mouth on a JHP the better if you are serious about pin busting with a 9mm. I have never used any of the 147gr, stuff on them, so cannot say how it works, but my choice would be sone sort of 124 / 127gr. in a +P or +P+ loading...probably the CCI Gold Dots would work fine.

Pins at the old Second Chance match were placed something like 3 feet from the edge of the table, and the 9mm just cannot compete with the big bores for that. Nine Pin placed them much closer to the edge (1 ft. IIRC) and there the 9mm would do fine.

Pass on the Hirt +P+ if you plan to shoot a lot of it in a pistol. It is loaded for SMG's to be used in cold climates and right on the ragged edge of too hot for a pistol. My guess is that 3000rd. through a handgun will have it rattling like a gate hinge...works fine in my Colt Carbine, though.

Just a note: the "way too hot" 9mm ammo from Hirtenberger is [b]L7A1 HP[/b], not +P+.

It is so hot I don't know what you would call it; maybe ++P++

It scares me and I'm fearless.

I've got another source for that ammo, would it be safe to use in a beretta 92? or an IMI baby desert eagle? I haven't picked any up since i'm not sure.

Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +p is powerful ammo, over 400FPE out of your 5" Beretta, and I buy it for $12-$13 per 50 round box.

Thanks to all for the replies.  How would military ammo do?  Cost is an issue here.  Thanks!

Oslow is right to be afraid of the L7A1 in pistols. I chronographed this (124 gr round) at 1450 fps from a 6.5" barrel in a Sterling.

[url]www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=159834 [/url]

Don't use the Hirtenberg L7A1 in pistols!

Companies that do not state that this ammo is for SMGs only are at the very least being deceptive and probably opening themselves to a lawsuit.

Ammoman has Speer 124gr +P 9mm for $159/K shipped. (Yes, I know this is not CC ammo, but I have never seen a failure) There are some other sources for this as well.

[url]http://www.ammoman.com/[/url]



I think NATO spec 9mm is rated +P; I don't know that it would be cheaper.

Gents, the Question was asked, a Powerful 9mm cartridge.  I named Hirtenberger as my Champion.  And so far nobody here has contradicted me as to its incredible power.  In fact, shooters here have been saying it’s TOO powerful.
So Be It.
I use it in my Glock and my Mac 11.  In the near future I plan to buy a 9mm sub upper for my M16.  I shall be using Hirtenberger in it when I’m not suppressing it.
I also have Hirtenberger in .308.  I use it in my Remington PSS.  It is normal for me to have minute and sub-minute groups at ranges up to 200 yards.  At 600 minute groups are the norm.

So in a nutshell, I can say that I have used Hirtenberger successfully in the past.  My weapons are all in perfect shape, or as close to perfect as I can go.  [b]Because[/b], the round is so powerful I just don’t shoot it that often.  My 3,000 rounds will last me a couple of years.

Giggle

There [b]is[/b] such a thing as Hirtenberger +P+ 9mm. The L7A1 is [b]NOT[/b] +P+ and is not marked as such on the box or the headstamp. It should not be advertised or sold as +P+ and it is irresponsible to do so. Hirtenberger issued a warning against using this ammo in handguns. The BATF issued a warning against using it at all. I have fired this ammo and I don't think it is a good idea to use it in a handgun.

With all of that said, if you know what you have and you want to use it then have at it. Just don't hand the pistol to someone you like.

In this case, "powerful" won't mean diddly squat when all the "power" ends up being wasted in the berm behind the still standing pin. Regardless of velocity or chamber pressures, you need a bullet that will take a pin off of the table as reliably as possible, and no...repeat, NO...FMJ design is going to do that for you. Even standard velocity JHP stuff will be much better at this, and standard 147gr. JHP may just be even better.

How far are the pins from the edge of the table? If they are placed at the 3 feet distance, don't bother, 9mm won't cut it (and something like the Hirtenberger in FMJ won't be that useful). Hell, I have seen pins (at 3 feet from the edge) getting hit by .357 Sig (JHP), and while they were clearing the table, they did so reluctanly, barely.

There is a VERY good reason that the ideal pin load (for 3 feet from the edge) is a heavy (230-250gr bullet at around 900-1000 fps), and there is a VERY good reason 9mm-only categories place the pins 1 foot from the edge of the table.

Remember, the trick here is not energy (foot pounds), it is momentum. A 230gr 45 ACP hardball round with 350fpe (but with a momentum of 195) will clear the pins FAR more convincingly than a 124 gr bullet with 450 fpe but a momentum of only 150 or so).

UPDATE!

Last night, with my Springfield XD 9mm, I had no problem clearing the pins.  (When I actualy hit them) The ammo was Winchester White Box 147gr. JHP.  This stuff goes for about $10/box at Wally World.  It hit those pins HARD and sent them flying!  I'll be trying the other suggestions too.  The pins are set up two feet from the edge of the table.  

omdps has the 124gr winchester 9mm nato round.

its a hot fmj loaded to 1233.  Fast round

its the q4318

good price too
6.99 for 50


go to [url]www.ombps.com[/url]

TXL

Ive been reloading alot and have TONS of manuals from way back!As i look threw the manuals you can see that they keep DOWN LOADING the 9mm!  I have a manual that has several MAX Loads of 115FMJ thats over 1300 FPS and theres a laod that List Herco/115FMJ thats 1400FPS!

I dont use reloads myself for carry in FEAR of court Trouble!
But I do use corbon or the 124Hydra shok + P

Department of the Treasury
ATF Office of Public Information

For Immediate Release FY-97-6
Contact: Vickie Saunders Date: November 7, 1996

HAZARDOUS AMMUNITION

Washington--The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has been advised by Hirtenberger AG, Hirtenberg, Austria, that certain 9Xl9 mm
caliber ammunition produced by Hirtenberger is unsafe for use in any handgun.

The ammunition, designated L7A1 and produced ln the years 1990 through 1992, was produced for the British Ministry of Defense specifically for use in submachineguns under adverse conditions. The ammunition was loaded to produce pressures far in excess of that intended for use in handguns.

The manufacturer advises that up to 12 million rounds of this ammunition has recently been sold on the world surplus market. The ammunition can be identified by the following head stamp located on the bottom of the cartridge case

12 O'clock position: HP
3 O'clock position: 90, 91, or 92
6 O'clock position: L7Al
9 O'clock position: the marking of a cross within a circle

This ammunition should not be fired.

We are not aware of any of this ammunition being imported into the United States. ATF will take action to prevent the commercial importation of this
ammunition.

For additional information, contact, Mary Jo Hughes, Chief, Firearms and
Explosives Imports, (202) 927-8320.

I have Speer Gold Dot 124-gr. for my Glock 34.

Target World pins, uh-huh... hit them middle to down low. Use a hollow point to bite into the pin.
I have shot pins there a couple times, and also put up with random back splatter from the backtsop also.

Speer Gold Dot in 124 and 147 gr +P are occasionally showing up in "[s]Law Enforcement Only[/s] Reclassified" boxes of 50.

Snappy performance at the wrist and at the pins, it's what I used last time I shot pins with 9mm.

IIRC, some 147 JHP is longer than SAAMI-spec and some pistols (early Kahr P9, IIRC again)  don't like feeding it.