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Posted: 7/29/2002 12:51:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gloftoe]
(Just renamed the thread to convey its true contents)
Anyone know where you can purchase a replacement feed ramp for a Colt or RRA style mag block? I know you can get replacement ejectors from Brownells, but I can't seem to find replacement feed ramps. Anyone have a clue? Thanks. -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 8/26/2002 10:42:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Boom_Stick]
[#1]
I really really like this idea!
Is it a two piece design? How are the two pieces held in? |
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Posted: 8/26/2002 11:26:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Yep... two piece block design, and they're held in by set-screws. Works pretty well!
-Gloftoe |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:05:32 PM EDT
[#3]
 Ok, my curiosity got the best of me and I just ordered one of those 50 round Lanchester mags. All I really wanted was one of the ring type sten loaders but then I decided I just had to have one of those mags! I just mailed off the order to A.M.I. so I should get it in about a week and a half. I'll post a picture of it in my 9mm AR.
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Posted: 8/28/2002 4:19:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#4]
   Edit- Since I was the last post, I'll just add it here. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=139381&page=1 Info on how to shorten a Sten mag. Main info is by AR-fan (thank you). It's about half way down the page. Didn't want it to get lost, so I'm putting a link here (since this topic is tacked). |
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USA
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Posted: 9/9/2002 1:29:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pops]
[#5]
Kaliburz,
I was wondering if it would be possible to add the sten mag shortening pictures to that site you have since I've noticed over time some of the other pictures have disappeared from the original posts. The disappearance may have something to do with the photo site but it would be a shame to loose this info. I'm still trying to locate a two piece magwell conversion (at a good price) but most of the conversions were the original Colt units that used roll pins to hold them in place and they've all been missing the ejector(???). Does anybody know if these "Roll Pin" types can be modified to use set screws? One last thing, I got some sten mags from tapco a long time ago and I just tried (for practice)to modify them and I don't know if it's my imagination but they seem to be easier to cut and drill than the uzi mags I have!!!! |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 1:56:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#6]
Done. Yes, Stens are soft metal, granted, I've never converted uzi mags....
I'm not sure completely. I know the back would be no problem, as the 'ears' are cut off. The front may require a new hold to be drilled in the lower and/or block. It all depends where the holes line up after mods. AR-fan, If ya want me to add anything, text or pics, let me know.... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:19:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#7]
Well, I went to the next step -- I've been looking over the topic in the "Build it yourself" forum on "Kitchen sink Parkerizing" and I just did my first mag. It's one of the short ones.
It has a nice black satin finish and I'll test to see how durable it is compared to Brownell's Aluma hyde on the other short mag I have. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:24:52 PM EDT
[#8]
AR-Fan, did you have to strip the mag before parking it? Thanks.
-Gloftoe |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:50:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#9]
I cleaned the heck out of the mag body then sprayed it with brake cleaner. I only did the mag body, The follower seems to be plated(!!!) and I left the end cap as it was. I used the new copper pennies per the kitchen sink parkerizing project -- they are made of zinc and just copper plated. I also tried the black stuff in the alkaline batteries but I must have done something wrong because it just didn't work at all. Using the pennies seem to work better for me. I would like to find a shop that has both powdered zinc and the manganese dioxide powder so I don't have to mess with old batteries and pennies. the second mag that I tried the manganese on is the one I did over with the brownell's Aluma Hyde. The acid did a nice job of etching the mag body so I figured the Aluma Hyde would really hold on. I guess I'll find out! One of the people who had also done some of the parking and was a major poster in that kitchen sink topic recommended sandblasting the item to be parked but I was in a hurry and just wanted to try this -- still, it's really nice but I can imagine it could be even better.
Hey, by the way it's good to see you back here again! Any news on the upper? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2002 7:45:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#10]
Well, On the left is the Lanchester 50 round mag in my RRA (Colt system 9mm)AR and ring type box loader next to it. On the right is my 9mm with the standard 32 round sten. That box loader is the best little tool a sten mag owner could have. You pull down on the ring and it depresses the follower, you drop in a round and as you let up on the ring a little finger on the thing pushes the round back in place, one after the other etc. another thing is it locks into place -- it uses the sten mag catch hole to lock into. It was $29.95 plus shipping from A.M.I. |
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Posted: 9/11/2002 7:54:13 PM EDT
[#11]
You stuff's lookin good, AR-fan! I'm still waiting on the upper, and am hoping for either the end of this week, or beginning of next week. I think I have my blocks set so they'll work fine (hopefully), just need to test it all out. Waiting is killing me! I may try the kitchen sink parking method for the mags. What about the chemicals that Brownells sells? Could you do the same thing, just with those chemicals? Thanks.
-Gloftoe |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2002 8:15:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Gloftoe,
I honestly did the parking on a lark and I don't know anything about the chemicals from Brownell's. My only problem would be the cost -- I used the same chemicals that were described in that kitchen sink parking project and it was about $14 a gallon -- is this price better or worse than Brownell's? If you decide to do a mag please start slow with just one mag. by the way I only bought one of those Lanchester mags and it looks nasty but I really like the regular 32 round stens -- they seem just right. I may make a few more shortened mags for target shooting off a bench at the outdoor range. One last little project would be finding a free float railed tube that will fit my mid-length upper. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 12:32:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Dang!!! That thing is long.
There is another place to get stuff for plating. The Eastwood company... they're mainly for car stuff, but they had econo kits to plate (bolts and trim). So, who knows... maybe it would work. Been a while since I got a catalog and don't know the web addy.... |
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Posted: 9/15/2002 11:36:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Do you guys think this it is possible to do this Sten-in-a-Colt thing to a one piece block or create a one piece block out of two?
I was looking at a few of my TAPCO Sten mags in my lower and it looks like there is several thousandths on each side and more if you slim down the Sten mag a few more thousandths on each side. My lower is rather expensive and I'm not too crazy using set screws to secure anything in the mag well. There isn't a chance in hell that I'd drill holes in it and secure two blocks with roll pins! I was about to pick up the phone and order an Oly setup until I finally read this thread. Man does it pay to be thorough in your reading on these boards! I've seen Colt post ban LEO mags spew rounds and figure that a single feed mag won't do that. Also, the Lanchester mag thing would be just great! That way the shotgun weenies at my club would have to wait EVEN LONGER to yell "PULL" to each other! |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 12:54:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#15]
J_E_D,
I've thought of a way to make one, but there really isn't any room in between the mag and mag well. If one was made, the flange to hold it together would have to be on top (and be thin). One could extend the block lower, so part of it sticks out. Then one could add "re-informent" straps on the side after install (screw the front and back together for support). Or, when this stuff goes into production (I'm hoping someone picks it up), you could get another lower and make it a 9. Your call..... I'm trying to duplicate my block. In the works... |
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USA
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Posted: 9/16/2002 7:16:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Kaliburz,
Are you trying to duplicate your block for production or just updating your design for your own use? |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 8:07:29 AM EDT
[#17]
I suppose I could get another lower. It's just that the lower I have now is registered on Form 4 and is probably worth at least 4 pre-bans. It's pre-the-ban-that-probably-will-never-sunset. I'm taking stuff to put on consignment today to start financing exactly this project. I'll probably buy whichever one piece block looks like it can be most easily hacked apart and reassembled with the .457" front section. As long as I can find one that isn't all aluminum I should be ok. Any tips? ASA one piece? RRA one piece? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2002 9:15:24 AM EDT
[#18]
J_E_D,
I don't have any super expensive stuff but the rifles I have are all set up the way I want them so I went and bought a RRA lower (mine has the short LE entry stock)from RB Precision www.rbprecision.com for $242 Shipped to my FFL. RRA stuff is really nice and at a good price. This way you can save your other lower and have a real good time with the RRA. You won't regret it! |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 12:22:51 PM EDT
[#19]
I though about setting up a post ban semi gun. I don't have any semi-auto rifles any more.
After firing a post-86 dealer sample Colt 9mm M16 I REALLY want a full auto 9mm setup. Especially a flat top with an EOTech 5xx. If none of you guys thinks that a one piece block is possible then I'm not going to screw with it. Thanks to all of you guys for doing this stuff! Whoever takes this to production should at least give you guys some credit somewhere! |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 12:44:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Sorry we couldn't help ya out. Maybe someday with more time and research a block could be done. But not any time soon as far as I think.
Pops, I just doing more tinkering..... |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 1:31:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, there are some Uzi blocks that work by just dropping into the top, right? Without pins or set screws? I cant' seem to find one right now, but I thought I had seen some before. If so, how do they work?
Seems to me that the problem with a top drop-in block, with no pins or screws to hold it, would be the block moving upwards when slamming a mag home. The block would move up, and the bolt would bind on either in the rear on the ejector, or the front on the feed ramp. Am I mistaken about some blocks that just drop in from the top, with no screws or pins to hold it? -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 9:56:41 PM EDT
[#22]
The Colt style one I've got(ASA) drops in from the top, and it's held in place by the regular mag release. |
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Posted: 9/16/2002 11:20:37 PM EDT
[#23]
I guess for a two piece block, you could make it kind of a press-fit thing. Taper the front and back blocks, so they have to press in? Nothing too drastic, just so that they couldn't fall out. Then drop them in from the top, a slight press, and there you go.
Think this could work, Kaliburz or Ar-Fan? -Gloftoe |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2002 6:45:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Where is the best place to get the two piece mag block, so I can do this coversion. Also do all two piece mag blocks require that you drill holes into the lower receiver in order to tap for set screws?
Thanks Six |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2002 8:07:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#25]
rainbowsix,
The setscrews are in the magblock parts and screw out (at an angle) from the mag block half to make contact with the inside of the rifles magwell. No holes are required. They can be annoying if you only have one lower and like to change from 9mm to 5.56mm to 22 rimfire etc. The magwell conversion blocks I bought had the set screws frozen in the threads and the allen sockets on the tops of the set screws where rounded out (there are two screws in the front piece and one in the rear piece). I have no patience and I had just bought a RRA lower just for 9mm so I figured that this was a dedicated lower so I fastened the front and rear blocks in with screws, one for the front and one for the rear block. In a pinch (like I want to use my 22 conversion unit) I just un-screw the parts and away I go with the new setup. By the way, the original Colt 9mm's had the blocks held in place with roll pins as this was meant to be strictly a 9mm and of course the lower was roll stamped "9MM NATO". |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 8:48:42 PM EDT
[#26]
All I know of that has this two piece availible is through Brownells. If you look on page 1 or 2 of this post, it has the posting of the part number. |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 9:53:47 PM EDT
[#27]
I just got my RRA one piece 9mm block today.
I'm pretty sure I can adapticate/hack it to use Sten mags. It looks like I'd have to redrill the feed ramp retaining pin hole and probably the slot the feed ramp fits into in order to thin the front portion to .475". The feed ramp is .485" (not counting the lip) by my crappy plastic "GENERAL" calipers. It would probably also require taking a little (.050" maybe) off of the rear sides of the Sten mag. I'm OK with that. I didn't know that the RRA magwell adapter had the bolt hold-open device, but it looks like that will have to come out. Finally, the means by which this adapter is secured into the lower is first rate. You tighten an allen screw (that wasn't siezed) and it pushes two large (.22") pins out of each side of the front part of the block. I don't know if any of the others secure this way, but I like this method. I'd go for a two-piece setup if both pieces were secured in this manner. I'm just not comfortable with a screw at 45 degrees turning against my very expensive lower. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2002 10:33:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Jon,
How much did you pay for the RRA mag block and who did you buy it from? Booker |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 10:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: J_E_D]
[#29]
I got it from Pete-in-NH for $125. His forum is called "Legal Transfers" over in the Industry Forums. At the same time I ordered a pre-ban flat top 9mm upper, ARMS #40 and a 9mm carbine buffer. I ordered Monday at 5 p.m. and it was here (NH to VA) four days later. He shipped it Tuesday USPS Priority Mail. I think you can beat Pete's price by $5 but I'm not sure it's worth it. If you PayPal him, he ships pronto. He deserves his reputation. That was the first time I ordered from him, but now I'm thinking about rebuilding my faux-Commando upper with a RRA flat top and buying some spares that are common with the AR-15 from him. Edited to Add: As a quick aside, I went with a Colt pattern RRA setup over the Oly setup based almost purely on price. I wasn't going to buy a RRA due to the 9mm barrel drought but Pete had one. I wanted a 10.5" barrel, but I can hack and thread that myself in a month once I get to a lathe or now if I send it to a guy I saw advertising gunsmith services in the EE forums. The Oly was my first choice due to the inherent lack of trigger slap. I'm willing to live with some things I don't like about their upper for that. However, I tried an upper from an RO635 post-sample on my M16 lower last weekend and there wasn't any trigger slap from it so I think I'll be OK with this. You semi-auto shooters don't have to worry about that very much. In my case, egging out the pinholes gets pretty expensive. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2002 2:37:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Tell me if you can get the one piece design to work with the stens. I like the one piece better than the two piece. Does anyone know if a manufacturer is making any .45ACP uppers besides oly. I don't like the looks of their mag setup. I want something that uses the colt style mag blocks, because I know that the 9mm Sten mags can be altered to fit .45ACP.
Thanks Six |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2002 7:01:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Rainbowsix,
The one piece is too tight inside, due to the plates on either side, to allow a sten to fit. There is always the possibility that somebody could build one with rails just at the very top or a modified base that was out of the way so the stens could fit but I don't have the equipment to try to machine one. If this gets real popular I'll bet somebody will want to fill the need. If MedicMike gets his equipment up and running he said he might even make one of the mag block sets (two piece) with the screw at the bottom of each piece that holds the parts in place with the push-pins -- like the screw and push-pins in the front of the single piece mag blocks. The 9mm stens can be made to work with 45acp? |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 7:27:25 AM EDT
[#32]
Things ARE pretty tight in there. The adapter is actually a few thousandths narrower than the mag itself. Given that there is a lot of metal around the top of the mag, I think the mag can be thinned down. It's just the rear 1/4" on each side that's too thick. Maybe I'm FOS here and am about to ruin a perfectly good $125 block when I should be buying $11 mags and modifying them...... I don't know about getting .45ACP to work with a 9mm Sten mag but it might work with a Chinese 7.62 Tokarev Sten mag. Canada made a bunch of Stens for the Chinese in that caliber according to rumors I've heard from a C2 buddy of mine. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 3:23:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#33]
 What? There are Sten mags that work with a 7.62x25?!!!! WHERE, WHERE.... I WANT SOME, I WANT SOME!!!!!!(Okay, I saw 1 like this, it had a barrel for a Sten to fire the 7.62x25 round.... wanted too much).  Edit- ya right, not sure about how a Sten would work w/ a 45 ACP, but it will work with a 357 Sig and 40SW I think. I had a 357 Sig round in one and it stripped it off..... no mods to the mag. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2002 3:38:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Kurt over at KKF said that the sten 9mm mags can be altered to fit .45ACP. Just a little work on the feed tower and they'll work just fine. I put some ACP's in my 9mm sten mag and they fit fine, it's just that the cartridge case would hang up a little on the front of mag when stripping one off. Easy fix. That's why I'm looking for a colt style .45ACP upper that I can use my stens on and adapt this two piece mag block to fit the stens. Also are the two piece mag blocks from Brownell's any good?
Six |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 3:44:06 PM EDT
[#35]
"Six", Well, if Kurt said it would work..... Looks like this Sten thing is the next best thing since sliced bread..... Any how, the Brownells block is what I and Gloftoe used as a starting point. Part number is on page one or page two of this post. I dont' think anyone else out there makes a 45 upper. I think only Oly does and if any one else does.... it's not a 'well known thing'. Sten mags.... will work with 9mm, 40 SW, 357 Sig and 45 ACP..... and 7.62x25 Stens will work with 38 Super & 9x23..... Dang...... I think the price on Stens will be going up.... |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2002 3:49:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Get em while you can! Maybe I should just make my own .45ACP upper to work with the colt style blocks.
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Posted: 9/20/2002 3:56:51 PM EDT
[#37]
If I can figure out how to keep the ROF on a .40 upper with a carbine stock below 850rpm I'll build one eventually.
It looks to me like the .45ACP rounds would be tilted quite a ways upward, more so than the follower normally tips up the 9mm rounds. It doesn't seem like a good arrangement. Here's a thought on shoehorning the .45ACP in there: How about cutting off the back of the magazine to take that support spine that curves inward? That seems like it would give enough room. Finally, it doesn't prevent the mag from being used in the gun (HA!) it was intended for and you could probably still stuff 9mm rounds in it. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 4:09:00 PM EDT
[#38]
If you did that, you wouldn't be able to use one of those box type sten loaders (which, I must say are a DAMN fine accessory). -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 12:57:43 AM EDT
[#39]
You know what would be really kick ass, would be last round bolt hold open with the stens.
Pretty damn impossible as far as I can see. but it would still be nice. Any creative minds out there? -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 1:34:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Actually, those 7.62x25 mags to convert the Sten are that way...... just have to find them now..... |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2002 4:43:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Are RRA 9mm uppers any good?
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Posted: 9/21/2002 9:37:20 AM EDT
[#42]
There have allegedly been some extraction problems when they first came out. I say "allegedly" because there were posts on these forums that talked about someone having the problems but the person(s) who allegedly had them, to my knowledge, never posted anything to that effect.
I'm sure that they all aren't perfect as no manufacturer makes perfect stuff. RRA is as good as any other 9mm upper. That being said, have any of you done up some drawings of the mods to the front block? I tried fitting two $11 DSA UZI mags last night and fubar'd one. It's time for me to get serious about doing this Sten mag setup! |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 12:10:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gloftoe]
[#43]
all RIGHT! My upper came in, and I got a chance to mod mags and test fire. First of all, the height of the mag catch if pretty damn critical. I was only a few hundredths of an inch too high with my first mag attempt, and got FTFs all over the place. I re-did my catch at the correct height, and feeding problems seemed to disappear.
Now for the range report. I only had one working mag, so I had to load between each shooting session (this sucks, I must say). First, some slow, deliberate fire, and trying to set the sights decently for 25 yards. I know it's a short distance, but I'm just trying to work the kinks out of the gun at this point. Did I say kinks? I thought there would be at least ONE problem. Boy was I wrong. First mag, slow fire, 32 rounds downrange. Neat, I thought. More slow fire, and finally got zeroed at 25 yards. So lets try some rapid fire. 32 rounds downrange as fast as I could pull the trigger. 200 rounds later, and with the biggest, dumbest grin I've had in a while, I left the range. I didn't have a single failure to feed, fire, extract or eject. When I was done with the target, there was a neat 2" hole in the center that I had just torn the shit out of with rapid fire. I think we can count this Sten block as another one that really works. Thanks for listening! -Gloftoe edited to add the pics:   |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:29:43 AM EDT
[#44]
congratulations
You had to wait one heck of a long time to get your system up and running and finally it's done -- success! You're right about cutting the mag-catch hole. I'm not sure but I think it may be slightly different for each type of rifle combination. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 3:08:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#45]
   
Actually, the magazine that you gave me works in my block just fine. I'm gonna be sending one of mine to Gloftoe just to see if one cut for my block will work in his. If it works, as the one you sent does, then it means that even custom blocks are "identical" enough to work. Gives more proof that this system work great. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:38:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-fan]
[#46]
That's good to know that the mag I sent you worked for you. Now if one of your mags works for Gloftoe then we can figure this sten setup we have isn't just some kind of freak thing.
Kaliburz, did you try your setup before you put the ramp in the front piece? Gloftoe, How far down from the top edge of the mag did you cut your mag-catch slot? Also, is your lower Rock River also? |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:58:58 PM EDT
[#47]
AR-fan,
I modified the ramp before testing. I figured, it wouldn't hurt to work on the ramp before testing. There was quite a lip after I trimmed it.....that's why I cut the ramp, in case lip would catch the round funny. |
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Posted: 10/22/2002 12:50:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gloftoe]
[#48]
Just an update: I had purchased 4 of the 10 pack Sten mag deals from Tapco when I first started thinking about a 9mm AR. I got the Stens because I originally intended on an Oly system.
I cleaned them, had them reparked, and I marked one for the Colt system (standard AR mag catch). I "milled" the one out myself, and it functioned 100%. I then wanted to see if maybe there was a way to mass-mill the Stens (seeing as how EVERY one is different in its own little way). Here are the results:  The left one is my "milling", the center one is when we tried to mill it in the correct location at the machine shop, and the third is one of the mass-produced ones.  There's the whole lot of them. It'll be 40 when I get the one from Kaliburz. This has been a great project, guys. I hope to keep this tacked up to gauge interest in it! -Gloftoe Edited to add one last pic:  |
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Posted: 10/24/2002 5:06:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Ok, I'm armed with a drill, files, vise, calipers, patience and steady hands.
Bottom line, what steps are required to make the two piece mag block work? I browsed through 5 pages here and I didn't see step by step instructions for what's involved to make this work. I'd like to know before I invest. |
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Posted: 10/24/2002 5:05:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Boom_Stick,
Give me some time, I'll write up a complete text and post. Did you look at the pics on the link? We have 3 blocks pictured there... |
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