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Posted: 1/12/2007 2:50:09 AM EDT
Okay, okay I will give up something I have kept quiet. I am doing twelve Operators in this coming batch with carbine length gas systems and these will be built with a proprietary Troy 10" Troy rail modified to clear the ARES system, they will also have a custom GTS logo. We enlarged the cooling holes some to reduce weight.  The basic upper will be a CMT M4 upper with the rail above, ARES piston system installed MPI'd bolt. Purchasers will be able to select their choice of muzzle device, charging handle, etc but the basic components will be as out lined here. The upper receiver will also carry my logo as will the barrel. The uppers will be $1099 pluse what ever options you choose. Denny A) The end of the spigot, in front of the roll pin is now closed off so no gas can leak forward. This was causing some reliability issues with some front sights. B) A few units got out with improper heat treating by the company that heat treats the gas chamber that screws into the spigot. All units are now tested for hardness twice. Once by the heat treater and again at ARES/ C) The thread size and pitch was revised on the chamber/spigot joint for more strength. D) The op rod has been modified for more strength and the heat treat for the core hardness of the rod has been raised to eliminate any rod bending. E) There no longer two size spigots and all the kits are now just "Carbine" ARES continues to work on the Middy and Rifle length system but emphasis has been on the revisions of the initial carbine system. I talked the Geoff Herring at ARES Defense Friday to discuss his up coming rail system for tthe GSR 35 and he told me it will be a free floater, mil spec pic rail and will line up with a standard M4 uppers rail. I have been wanting to try the ARES GSR piston kit since I first heard about it. I liked the idea of being able to "pistonize" the upper I chose instead of having to choose from the options offered by manufacturers. Freedom to be creative and all that. People said "VaporWare" and all that but yet here they are, and they work. In this little thread I will show you the kit and how it installs and a finished rifle of mine.  The kit includes the piston system, bolt carrier, specially modified M4 handguards, a beautiful bolt carrier and a nice set of instructions. The ARES GSR bolt carrier.  LMT 10.5" upper before removal of the gas tube.  I decided to test my kit on a brand new LMT 10.5" upper as I figured a 10 incher would be a real test of reliablity and I also wanted to see the effect on the cyclic rate of fire on full autol  I only had to remove the factory gas tube and I was ready to begin the install. Here is the GRS bolt carrier and the bolt stripped of its gas rings and ready for an extractor upgrade consisting of a CS extractor spring, black bumper and Crane O ring. I used a CMT MP tested bolt for my build.  Here is the spigot going in place. A small spring is inserted into the front sight base ahead of the spigot. You then align the hole in the spigot with the hole in front sight and then install the provided roll pin. You now have the first major part of the system installed.   There is a steel bushing that inserts into the gas tube hole in the upper reciever from the inside of the uppers. Nothing to it just push it into place. Its purpose it to guide the sytems operating rod and prevent wear on the aluminum upper.  I then inserted the op rod and spring. I then pullled them rearwards and installed the rest of the inline system. Here is a top view of the finished GSR35 kit installed.  Side view of the installed GSR 35  I installed a Surefire silencer adaptor for a FA556K shorty silencer. Here is a side view pic of the rifle with the handguard off and the can detached.  A picture with the top handguard removed and the Surefire silencer installed.  A pic of the rifle without and silencer and one pic of the rifle with the silencer attached.   In summary this is a piston kit that anyone who can change a gas tube can install themselves at home with a roll pin punch and a hammer being the only required tools. Mine ran fine in semi auto with either a standard buffer, H buffer or H2. Full auto preferred the H2. You rifle may be different and like one of the buffers better than another. The cyclic rate of fire was much reduced from a direct impingment gas system in this barrel length and mine ran a very comfortable 750 rounds per minute without the silencer and around 790 to 800 with the silencer attached. Gas in the face was much reduced both without and the can and the gases absence with the can attached was very noticeable. This kit is very high quality, reliable and gives the home builder the opportunity to convert his existing upper to a piston system easily and economically. If you want to change your upper back to gas you just punch out the roll pin and remove the kit as easily as you installed it and you can move it to another upper. Now with a Rail System I have been thinking of rails systems that might work, with mods of course, that would allow mounting flash light, vertical grips etc, and also meet the criteria of being easily removable to allow occassional servicing and inspection of the system. In a minor flash of inspiration I dug out a Surefire M73, not a floater but who cares on a shorty M16 and we went to work on one tonite. It was actually quite simple to get done. I will briefly take ya thru what we did. Step 1. We took a lot of measurement and found at the largest part the diameter of the system was .470. We decided to make the cut in the inside of the top rail with a .500 ball end mill. The top of the rail system as milled and test fitted a few times until we had the necessary clearence for the piston to move freely. Pic of the inside of the M73 after milling the clearence cut.  Here is a top view of the M73 after milling. Yes, the material removed made the system visible thru the rail but there is plenty of meat left and I looks cool too. If aesthics drive you to it you can just put ladder on the top of the rail.  Front view of the M73 after finished milling. Pleny of meat left.  Side view of the upper with the M73 in place.  Top view of the rail system installed.  A picture of the rifle with the M73 rail installed over the GSR 35 piston system.  I don't have a MI rail but if I had one I would try the same procedure. Now I have a piston upper that will accept any accessories I would wish to place on it. We can do this Mod in the shop for a nominal fee if you so desire. This is not a floater so it is maybe not the ultimate solution, but in the short term it met my criteria as outlined above. With very basic machining skill you can do this yourself. I give this kit a big thumbs up.  I call this rifle "The Li'l Bastid"  LINK TO ARES DEFENSE FULL AUTO VIDEO LINK TO ARES DEFENSE G-35 GAS PISTON KITS |
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Posted: 1/12/2007 9:43:11 AM EDT
[#1]
DAMN Denny! That is SWEET! I've been wanting to see one of these ares systems.... very cool. Thanks for posting it up my man!
-ZA206 |
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Posted: 1/12/2007 12:13:08 PM EDT
[#3]
What type of steel do they use for the carrier/piston system?,also how is the long term durabilty on these?Also is it easy to clean say after 500 to 1000 rounds?
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Posted: 1/12/2007 3:57:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I don't know the steel. That would be ARES information. I have over 1500 rounds on my shorty and actually haven't needed to clean it. The piston itself does appear to have some type of plated finish that is easy to wipe off the gunk. The bolt and carrier, upon inspection, are still quite clean. I shot 3 30 rounders back to back full auto and the bolt and carrier were just barely warm to the touch and that will be good for the bolt life and springs in the bolt itself. I also like the cyclic rate of fire on full auto. On the 10.5" LMT upper I am using for the long term test the rate of fire is around 750 RPM and very, very smooth. This is an improvement over the 950 these uppers usually tach with direct gas. I am using an H2 buffer in the lower. Denny |
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Posted: 1/12/2007 4:00:05 PM EDT
[#5]
I just got home from the shop but will be down there tomorrow before I go to the gunshow here to look for a Redfield Accutrac for my Remington M40 sniper rifle. I will get the measurement then for ya. D. |
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Posted: 1/12/2007 5:03:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the info, ya look's like a good system for the ar-15 with ALOT LESS COST,i also like the fact that you can go back to a DI system with just a punch and a hammer.
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Posted: 1/13/2007 7:59:39 AM EDT
[#7]
WILL THIS PISTON KIT WORK ON MODEL 1 16" 6.8 REM. SPC. UPPER?
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Posted: 1/13/2007 6:34:39 PM EDT
[#8]
It seen it my self this weekend, its a real nice set up, the new rail system they had for it is made by Knights.
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Posted: 1/15/2007 8:17:52 AM EDT
[#9]
A really good quality item. I got the whole run down from them @ Shot and I'm interested in getting myself a kit
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Posted: 1/16/2007 12:25:01 PM EDT
[#10]
So has a price or shipping date been set yet?
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:39:48 PM EDT
[#11]
I was wondering if the Gas Piston would work with a LaRue Free Float rail ?
I have a Noveske 10.5" barrel and a LaRue 9" quadrail. the piston system seems small enough to fit there ? |
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Posted: 1/16/2007 6:48:05 PM EDT
[#12]
I don't think it will without a little work... But I'd sure like to know myself |
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Posted: 1/18/2007 8:08:54 PM EDT
[#13]
+1
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Posted: 1/19/2007 8:27:28 PM EDT
[#14]
This looks pretty interesting.
Denny, I am looking to build a 300 Whisper ( Barrel length greater than 10.5 but less than 16.5). It is going to be suppressed. Do you think this system would work with it? If so, which type do you think I would need, the short or long barrel version? Do you think I still need the gas port opened up and an adjustable gas block? Any time frame on a railed forend release? Thanks |
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Posted: 1/19/2007 10:32:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Been through about 1000rds with mine without a hickup.
No one has been able to tell me if the flash I am getting coming out the roll tube is normal though. 
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Posted: 1/19/2007 10:50:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Tag for further field data and for possible purchase for my AR. Looks very cool.
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Posted: 1/22/2007 5:27:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Anyone had to clean one yet? I just ask because after install mine looks difficult to remove without removing the spiggot.
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Posted: 1/23/2007 2:40:24 AM EDT
[#18]
The spring is stif. You need some grip strength for sure, but it is easy. Just pull back on the knurled spacer and remove it, then the piston. No need to remove the op rod. You should only need to clean anything in the piston system every few thousand rounds. My maintainence consists of cleaning the bore and chamber and wiping down the bolt and carrier. Lightly lube them and re-assemble. Denny |
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Posted: 1/23/2007 5:47:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Denny, do they have a rifle length version planned or in the works?
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Posted: 1/23/2007 6:02:55 PM EDT
[#20]
I was wondering if ARES GSR piston kit would work in a dissipator upper receiver.
Thanks in advance. Bruce_Wayne |
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Posted: 1/23/2007 6:07:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Yes, they had it on display at the Shot Show. |
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Posted: 1/23/2007 6:40:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Yes it would. The dissipator uses a carbine length gas system. |
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Posted: 1/23/2007 6:43:51 PM EDT
[#23]
What about pistol length? |
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Posted: 1/23/2007 7:51:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Denny, did you ever get the measurements?
Thanks. -ZA
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Posted: 1/24/2007 4:11:07 AM EDT
[#25]
No pistol version. I'm thinking about doing one myself but first need to see how it performs with my current setup. I just had my Ares GSR-35 modified to work with AK mags yesterday for use with my MGI modular lower. This will be for my 11.5" 7.62x39 setup in full auto. If this works well, I want to modify a kit to work in my 7.5" 7.62x39 upper as well. |
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Posted: 1/24/2007 5:51:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Anyone know the skinny on the mid-length version ?
I heard they have them in stock (from GH @SHOT 07). Also heard they under consideration for manufacture (guy standing next to GH @SHOT 07). |
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Posted: 1/25/2007 7:26:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Can Anyone tell me if ARES has there piston kits in stock? A friend of mine who talked to them at the shot show has been trying to call them, email them without any response. He is a big supplier (he has a advertising block above) and wonted a number of the kits. Can someone shed any light, I think he has given up on them and I was waiting on one!
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Posted: 1/26/2007 12:41:25 PM EDT
[#28]
I just spoke to someone at Ares and Denny should have them in stock.
From Denny's website: THERE ARE TWO MODELS. ONE FOR 10 TO 11 INCH UPPERS AND ONE FOR 14.5 INCH TO 16 INCH UPPERS. THESE ARE FOR CARBINE LENGHT GAS SYSTEM UPPERS AT THIS TIME. I am waiting for the rifle leanth kit to be available. |
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Posted: 1/27/2007 6:05:56 AM EDT
[#29]
I have 20 more kits coming in early next week. I have 3 of the last 20 that came last Monday left. 2 for shorties and 1 for 14.5 to 16" barrels. These are selling damn near as fast as we get them in. Denny |
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Posted: 1/27/2007 8:43:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Looks like the rail is being built by KAC. Very cool. Here's a pic from Ares website
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Posted: 1/28/2007 10:09:36 AM EDT
[#31]
Are they going to make a mid-lenght rail?
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Posted: 1/28/2007 6:19:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Any word on whether or not this kit will fit in a Larue handguard?? Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/29/2007 7:02:40 AM EDT
[#33]
I want the mid-length also...............any word? |
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Posted: 1/29/2007 6:49:19 PM EDT
[#34]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=305981&page=1
Mr. Larue said he didn't believe his one piece handguards were compatible with the piston kits. I'd speculate that there is no way to slip the barrel nut flange section over the barrel/op-rod. Seems these piston kits work best with two piece handguards that have a removable upper section like the Samson/Troy, KAC, Surefire,YHM, MI offerings. |
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Posted: 1/31/2007 5:42:53 PM EDT
[#35]
What is the distance from the center line of the bore to the top of the piston? And also how wide is the pistion?
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Posted: 2/1/2007 2:22:10 AM EDT
[#36]
IIRC the width of the piston is like 0.47" My Surefire rail is at Denny's now getting milled like he did on his own. |
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Posted: 2/1/2007 5:56:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Which model is compatible w/a 12.5" barrel?
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Posted: 2/1/2007 6:28:07 PM EDT
[#38]
I recall Denny recommending the 10.5-11.5" model. |
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Posted: 2/1/2007 7:19:48 PM EDT
[#39]
with the deflection present in the FIRSH I had I'd sy this is a "no go" if rubbing will cause problems......
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Posted: 2/1/2007 7:29:17 PM EDT
[#40]
They are charging $400 for this?!? I mean, it is a great idea, and all, but come on, there is what, maybe $50 worth of machining? $100?
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Posted: 2/3/2007 3:47:29 PM EDT
[#41]
the ARES kit price is within the ballpark:
a precision AR bolt carrier is $150+ ("apples to orange" comparison) an M14 gas cylinder/piston is $175+ M14 match-grade op rod/springguide $45 with the rest of the difference towards development costs. It makes me wonder why the other piston upgrade manufacturers are charging so much? If KAC is making the ARES URX, maybe KAC will eventually sell piston SR-15's or ... egads! ... a piston SR-25? |
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Posted: 2/5/2007 4:11:32 PM EDT
[#42]
O.K....I don't want to rain on everyone's parade but..... I had one...Put it on my DPMS AP4. First 30 rounds worked great. I got all excitedhe Then..it got worse...would'nt even eject bythe 3rd magazine. I used 62 Grain SS109 and Prvi 55 grain"M885" Also shot a bunch of Lake City M885. So...I spent over $400.00 for it...maybe I assembled it wrong? home, Could it be me? Nope...not likely...all my magazine are the Uber reliable HK416's, 2nd version. My buffer spring is stock with my AP4 and my blackrifle only has 500-600 rounds through it. I had other range patrons fire it as I watched.....I know the recoil is fast and it looked like it was running...until you heard the "click" and no bang on the 2nd trigger pull. Nope...the unit I had was none mission effective....so off to anti-gun E-bay it went! Did I contact Ares..well no.....for $400.00 and change it should of run, on time , all the time. Sorry Ares......maybe HK can do it better. Put my "dirty" gas tube back in and shot 650 rounds the following weekend( i did'nt clean it before I went back to "the tube"). Not one malfunction, mis'feed, failure to feed, stove pipe or Ka-boom! Do I think the Ares kit sux....no...I'm sure someone has got it to work it there gun....but as for me....I should of saved my coins and put it towards a new Sig 556.
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Posted: 2/5/2007 4:32:35 PM EDT
[#43]
thanks for info, I was realy thinking about ordering one. Whats the deal? Have you contacted G.T.S ? Please keep us updated. Rob in STL knights sr15 m-4
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Posted: 2/5/2007 6:16:48 PM EDT
[#44]
You said the buffer spring was stock, what about the buffer? |
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Posted: 2/5/2007 7:00:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Sounds like you got the kit with the small gas port hole.....
 Maybe the kit doesn't specify what barrel length the kit should be used with ? Maybe the kit was put in the wrong packaging ? Maybe the kit was not installed properly ? |
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Posted: 2/5/2007 7:04:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Yeah, I bought it from you. Its a kit for a short barrel. Works just fine on my 11.5 with the pinned-welded long FH. Thanks! |
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Posted: 2/5/2007 11:55:39 PM EDT
[#47]
So JB Weld got the wrong kit for his AP4 then? |
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Posted: 2/6/2007 6:17:00 AM EDT
[#48]
Instead of posting something negative about a product try to figure out the problem first. If you had purchased the proper kit I can assure that you would have liked it. I have one in my 10.5 LMT upper...1000 rounds of AE 55 grain down range w/o a single malfunction. IMO, the only down side to this kit is that AREAS has no control over what brand upper/ barrel the kit is installed on.
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Posted: 2/7/2007 12:24:30 AM EDT
[#49]
Does anyone know if they actually had to modify the URX, or if they just rotated it 180 degrees? I only ask, because that's the lower HG from a URX at the 12:00 position.
Just curious... |
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Posted: 2/18/2007 1:50:47 PM EDT
[#50]
What type or rutine maintenance is there of this system? Disassembly and wipe down after every shooting session (as ususal), only after 10,000 rounds, never need cleaning, or what? Will the gases that come off the piston burn your hand if you are using an open holed hand guard? Who has one in stock?
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Took it home, cleaned the bejesus out of it. Lubed it up, function check, pagan war dance. prayer to what-ever diety I could think of and back off to the range next Saturday. My hopes were dashed on the first magazine!
Could it be me? Nope...not likely...all my magazine are the Uber reliable HK416's, 2nd version. My buffer spring is stock with my AP4 and my blackrifle only has 500-600 rounds through it. I had other range patrons fire it as I watched.....I know the recoil is fast and it looked like it was running...until you heard the "click" and no bang on the 2nd trigger pull. Nope...the unit I had was none mission effective....so off to anti-gun E-bay it went! Did I contact Ares..well no.....for $400.00 and change it should of run, on time , all the time. Sorry Ares......maybe HK can do it better. Put my "dirty" gas tube back in and shot 650 rounds the following weekend( i did'nt clean it before I went back to "the tube"). Not one malfunction, mis'feed, failure to feed, stove pipe or Ka-boom! Do I think the Ares kit sux....no...I'm sure someone has got it to work it there gun....but as for me....I should of saved my coins and put it towards a new Sig 556.