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Posted: 9/9/2019 3:22:17 PM EDT
So a ‘wholesaler’ came up to me at the Phoenix show this weekend and offered me some ‘colt’ new a1 uppers and showed me this. It is a black finish but that didn’t really scare me that much due to it possibly being a refinish. I asked how much and he said $60......
Then I really started looking at it and noticing it was not a colt like he claimed. He mentioned he ordered them from a distributor and had them made and then back tracked realizing what he said and me asking him more about it. I ended up buying this one and getting the guys card and relaying the info to Colt so they are aware I have yet to see a faked colt upper in a1 configuration and do know there are flat tops out there currently so hopefully this stops before it gets out of hand. Figured this would be a good place to let everyone know and spread the word. Key points: sharp edges, forge marks on inside of handle smoothed, forge marks on rear area still present, valleys in charging handle area, no proof marks, different edges near the port area, arrow and l/r different softer.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 3:56:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Good gawd.....
I hate this crap. Thanks Alex for posting this and contacting Colt. I hope the thief gets a letter from Colt legal. |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:32:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Scammers always trying to make a buck.
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:36:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Hey!
Do the C H forgings come off with your fingernail like the fake M4 uppers? |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:39:51 PM EDT
[#4]
if you don't want it, I'll take it off your hands...Bill
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:57:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey! Do the C H forgings come off with your fingernail like the fake M4 uppers? |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:57:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if you don't want it, I'll take it off your hands...Bill |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:59:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for watching out Alex.
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Posted: 9/9/2019 5:06:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No I tried with a few items to remove it and it didn’t come off |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 5:15:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Does it have M4 feed ramps?
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Posted: 9/9/2019 6:06:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does it have M4 feed ramps? |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 6:22:45 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm amazed he could get them made at that price point. Why pretend it's a colt? You would sell a few unmarked repos at $60 each.
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Posted: 9/9/2019 6:29:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Any chance it could come from the same supplier that Brownells use for his retro line?
I remember watching a MilitaryArmsChannel review on YT and the upper was marked “C A” and that sounded weird.. 
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Posted: 9/9/2019 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance it could come from the same supplier that Brownells use for his retro line? I remember watching a MilitaryArmsChannel review on YT and the upper was marked “C A” and that sounded weird.. https://i.postimg.cc/hvfx9tjP/7686-B25-C-8-BCA-46-E8-83-DD-B424-A3-B6-CD7-A.jpg |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 8:03:02 PM EDT
[#14]
With pre-ban lowers going for $800 in Massachusetts, and pre-86 M-16 lowers running $20k, I guessed a while back that lowers were being forged. This is intriguing, but doesn't surprise me @ all.
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Posted: 9/9/2019 8:14:16 PM EDT
[#15]
What makes me 100% sure these are fakes is the "C" "H". Those have not been made for decades.
If it were a "C" "A" it might have been like the USGI uppers such as these sold by Fulton Armory (FA). Fulton M16A1 USGI contract uppers Disclaimer: I have bought several things over the years from them (FA) and all have been top notch. Not implying (FA) is a scammer in ANY way, shape or form. |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 8:25:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance it could come from the same supplier that Brownells use for his retro line? I remember watching a MilitaryArmsChannel review on YT and the upper was marked “C A” and that sounded weird.. https://i.postimg.cc/hvfx9tjP/7686-B25-C-8-BCA-46-E8-83-DD-B424-A3-B6-CD7-A.jpg I remember Mike commenting on Brownells forgings at one point, but do not recall specifics. Or at least I think I do??? |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 8:57:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Anchor Harvey owns the "slickside" upper dies.
They did not remove the "C" until very recently. Most of the Brownells ones will have C/A present. All of the 604 forging we have bought in the last 12 years have those forge codes. We remove them and stamp an "N" in front of the ejection port. That "A1" forging is noticeably different in several ways. I DO NOT BELIEVE AH MADE IT. MOST LIKELY CHINESE I will forward this info to them and hope they and Colt nip this in the ass. It's quite comical when you actually look at it. The radius at the front of the ejection port is wrong. And the thickness above the CH cut is WAAAAAY too thick. Not to mention the lack of a proper broach cut for the CH cut at the rear. |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 9:17:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anchor Harvey owns the "slickside" upper dies. They did not remove the "C" until very recently. Most of the Brownells ones will have C/A present. All of the 604 forging we have bought in the last 12 years have those forge codes. We remove them and stamp an "N" in front of the ejection port. That "A1" forging is noticeably different in several ways. I DO NOT BELIEVE AH MADE IT. MOST LIKELY CHINESE I will forward this info to them and hope they and Colt nip this in the ass. It's quite comical when you actually look at it. The radius at the front of the ejection port is wrong. And the thickness above the CH cut is WAAAAAY too thick. Not to mention the lack of a proper broach cut for the CH cut at the rear. |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 9:20:09 PM EDT
[#19]
I, for one, would buy them all day long for $60 a piece. It wouldn't make any difference to me who made them as I am building for myself with no intention of selling or decieving...Bill
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Posted: 9/9/2019 9:50:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes me 100% sure these are fakes is the "C" "H". Those have not been made for decades. If it were a "C" "A" it might have been like the USGI uppers such as these sold by Fulton Armory (FA). Fulton M16A1 USGI contract uppers Disclaimer: I have bought several things over the years from them (FA) and all have been top notch. Not implying (FA) is a scammer in ANY way, shape or form. 
If you enlarge the pic you can see the "NDS" |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 10:16:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Nice! You guys make nice stuff fo sho!
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Posted: 9/10/2019 12:54:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Are these Airsoft? Some of the airsoft guns have supposedly been "banned for importation" because they are too close to the real deal.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 8:33:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are these Airsoft? Some of the airsoft guns have supposedly been "banned for importation" because they are too close to the real deal. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 11:58:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I, for one, would buy them all day long for $60 a piece. It wouldn't make any difference to me who made them as I am building for myself with no intention of selling or decieving...Bill |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 12:13:05 PM EDT
[#25]
I guess I am just thick headed because I don't understand what the problem is. We all build "fakes" (retro) everyday. We keep the engravers busy duplicating roll marks so the lowers look like the originals. We try to match colors to the originals and use vintage parts to duplicate a model that is long out of production. The closer we can build one to the original, the better. So, who cares who made these uppers?
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Posted: 9/10/2019 12:21:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I am just thick headed because I don't understand what the problem is. We all build "fakes" (retro) everyday. We keep the engravers busy duplicating roll marks so the lowers look like the originals. We try to match colors to the originals and use vintage parts to duplicate a model that is long out of production. The closer we can build one to the original, the better. So, who cares who made these uppers? The retro market is hot and people want to build a clone as correct as they can to the original, using original parts. The lower receiver cannot be exactly duplicated due to being a machine gun and limited by the NFA. The copy is not completely correct, sear hole and such... People KNOW this is a reproduction. Now the other parts are not regulated by the 1986 ban on ownership of new machine guns unless you are the government of course. So people can get real parts and want real confirmed retro parts and not fakes. They are out there and command a premium. If you want to build a fake with truly fake parts go ahead but the point of the thread and the other was to point out "buyer beware" to the Colt purists. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 1:23:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I am just thick headed because I don't understand what the problem is. We all build "fakes" (retro) everyday. We keep the engravers busy duplicating roll marks so the lowers look like the originals. We try to match colors to the originals and use vintage parts to duplicate a model that is long out of production. The closer we can build one to the original, the better. So, who cares who made these uppers? The only issue I see is price.. people will pay an extra for a Colt part because of the quality/history/rarity.. if its a copy should not be sold as original. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 2:40:48 PM EDT
[#28]
I think I actually got one of these on an upper from a vendor with a decent reputation.
I could see where they ground off the forge code, but there was the other same weirdness going on with the dimensions and the look externally. I wasn't really happy, and thought about sending it back... but my mind was made up when the inner diameter was too tight to accept a BCG. Back it went. More hilarity- I then set out to build that same upper myself... bought a black slick side from Brownells... and it was so out of spec the rear takedown pin of a Colt lower didn't line up and there was a huge gap to the rear. And back it went too. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 3:17:54 PM EDT
[#29]
It's one thing to buy a reproduction which is sold and marketed as a reproduction. It's entirely another thing to buy a counterfeit, which is being sold and marketed as genuine.
The two things are not equal to each other. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 3:44:37 PM EDT
[#30]
I'd be worried about the actual alloy used to make them. A lower not so much but the upper failing would be a bad day.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 3:47:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's one thing to buy a reproduction which is sold and marketed as a reproduction. It's entirely another thing to buy a counterfeit, which is being sold and marketed as genuine. The two things are not equal to each other. |
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Posted: 9/10/2019 4:32:41 PM EDT
[#32]
I doubt Colt can really do anything other than send a cease and desist order to whoever is selling these uppers as being Colt products. Selling them as A1 uppers that happen to have certain forge marks, the "C" and "H" doesn't seem to violate any patents or trademarks, as long as the seller doesn't misrepresent the manufacturer as being Colt. Let the Buyer be ware.
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Posted: 9/10/2019 11:09:26 PM EDT
[#33]
for 60 bucks I don't think anyone would expect it to be a genuine Colt.....
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Posted: 9/10/2019 11:29:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
for 60 bucks I don't think anyone would expect it to be a genuine Colt..... Same reason being I did not include the persons card so people don’t reach out and buy them to sell them as real. The point is to keep them off the market, not that they are a ‘good’ deal. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 12:01:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The point of the thread is this is a fake. Price does not matter and I should not have included that. Same reason being I did not include the persons card so people don’t reach out and buy them to sell them as real. The point is to keep them off the market, not that they are a ‘good’ deal. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 6:17:24 AM EDT
[#36]
I thought the original A1 m16 colts did not have a forward assist. I own an original 1966 Colt SP1 and it has no forward assist.
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Posted: 9/11/2019 8:30:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the original A1 m16 colts did not have a forward assist. I own an original 1966 Colt SP1 and it has no forward assist. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 8:41:54 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
for 60 bucks I don't think anyone would expect it to be a genuine Colt..... And the guys down the road that unknowingly pay full price for an "orginal" piece that IS NOT will be the ones that get screwed over, not the guys that want $60 knockoff shit. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 9:05:41 AM EDT
[#39]
I bought the Fulton Armory ones a few years back and don't recall the NDS on them. So I just looked: You have to get the ones that say 'USGI Contractor' to not have the NDS on them.
https://www.fulton-armory.com/upperreceivera1usginofanocd-2-1.aspx Now I gotta check mine to be sure. Nothing against NODAK (I has some of your parts and they is nice) but if I ordered USGI and I got NDS, I'd feel that the product was misrepresented. Kudos to NDS for keeping an eye on these threads. |
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Posted: 9/11/2019 9:10:15 AM EDT
[#40]
I believe there are more crooks, fakes and thieves in the gun business then there is in all other forms of commerce combined.
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Posted: 9/11/2019 12:53:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought the Fulton Armory ones a few years back and don't recall the NDS on them. So I just looked: You have to get the ones that say 'USGI Contractor' to not have the NDS on them. https://www.fulton-armory.com/upperreceivera1usginofanocd-2-1.aspx Now I gotta check mine to be sure. Nothing against NODAK (I has some of your parts and they is nice) but if I ordered USGI and I got NDS, I'd feel that the product was misrepresented. Kudos to NDS for keeping an eye on these threads. |
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Posted: 9/12/2019 8:18:57 AM EDT
[#42]
I don’t think this is very cool. To the untrained eye or less knowledgeable folks, kids that are looking to build a retro style gun this could be sold for much more than that $60 price. Thanks for sharing with us.
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