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Another great post! Tack it
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Life's a garden, dig it!
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If Ekie gives me the ok, I'll tack this. Excellent post as always! Thank you Ekie! |
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OH-58 AERO SCOUTS........"Un-armed and un-afraid!"
AR15.com "Retro Forum" and "Maintenance & Cleaning" Forum Moderator |
Sure, a tack would be fine. Did not get to finish it up last night, decided to post what I had done. So expect a major edit on the text.............
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I've never built an AR before, so I am confused about one thing. How can you tell the barrel nut is installed improperly on the camo'd carbine in the pics above?
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Better to have and not need than need and not have
كافر |
Ekie, Again, I am impressed with what you do here. Great info that really helps set this forum apart.
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The nut is on past TDC. One tooth is in contact with the gas tube, and there is a gap on the other side. The tube on this carbine would bind with the gas key on the carrier. The bind was sever enough to cause malfunctions. Have observed an alarming percentage of Colt's with improperly installed barrel nuts going back to 1998. |
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How do you get all these cool uppers to play around with? I mean, if its not an original 601 upper, its an XM177E2!!
I hate you so much! |
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Ahh...I see. Thanks for the info. Great pics BTW. |
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Better to have and not need than need and not have
كافر |
Got the XM177E2 upper as a mutt. Got it on trade for a spare 653 upper and some cash. It had a home done riveted front swivel, a late CH upper, etc, but did have an original grenade ring. I restored it with 1968 era parts, save the upper receiver which is a CK forge code upper circa 1971. Am hoping to find a correct upper for it one of these days. The 653, 723, and 733 uppers are factory originals I found on WTS ads on Buddy's and the EE. I have the receipt for the 727 upper, it was purchased factory direct by some Navy War something or the other as a upper and barrel in 1989 or so, and completed with some parts they must have had on hand. It was purchased from that guy with the ACR parts on Buddy's board. I restored it with take off parts from a 733 from the same era. Colt M4 uppers are common, no explanation needed there. The 933 upper is a 1995 or so 6721 upper with a 733 barrel swap. Also replaced the bolt carrier. The feed ramps don't mate up quite right in that the 6721 had modern M4 ramps, but it is close. |
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Very nice work Ekie.
Elvis |
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E.D.I.M.G.I.A.F.A.D.
W.R. Georgia, Proud home of R.A.F.B. |
Awesome work Ekie !
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These threads are the best. Great stuff Ekie.
Wouldn't you love spending a few hours with one of the old salts down at the Hartford plant? Surely they have a showroom, or quasi-museum.............right? |
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Ekie for President!
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The 733 is still being produced, in its current iteration with the 4th gen "enhanced" stock and A2 rear sights. From what I've seen it, like other early 700 series had a number of transitional variations. We've talked about this, so are these just what you're considering the "standard" configurations?
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[Arnold]Excellent![/Arnold]
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"You anti-union trolls are getting weak. I suggest you organize." CavVet, 8-27-06
Check out Ginger's blog: http://livingwithmelanoma.blogspot.com/ |
"Standard", maybe, but do consider them to be the following:
Even though the 733 is a cataloged item, am unaware of any recent US Military use. |
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Ah, alright, missed that, sorry.
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How about slings? (please )
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Does anyone know if mottled furnature (pistolgrip/handguards) was ever found on XM177E2s?
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Am missing the first Colt sling, so am waiting to find one of those.
Have not really got started on grips, so not sure, but I would not be afraid to use one on a clone. |
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Question - I thought 723's had lightweight profile barrels??
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=279416 |
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Which is why I duct-tape my AR to my body every night before I go to sleep. - DK-Prof
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Some do, there is a picture of the barrel marking of a pencil barreled 723 in the guide. Sorry that was not clear. |
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Did 733's use lightweight barrels? 11.5" right?
BTW, check your email, Ekie. |
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Where do the 977 and 777 carbines fit in? Are they just variations of the 921?
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I've seen pictures of 11.5" carbines that I believe are 733s with the pencil barrels. What I've always wanted to know is if the current production uses gov't profile ones. |
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The nut is on past TDC. One tooth is in contact with the gas tube, and there is a gap on the other side. The tube on this carbine would bind with the gas key on the carrier. The bind was sever enough to cause malfunctions. |
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They are commercial/export variants of the M4/A1. |
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Thanks for clearing that up. :)
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A friend encountered this on his M16. The gas tube was improperly aligned to the gas key. We removed the handguard and slightly bend the gas tube and dropped the bolt/bolt carrier until we didn't encounter binding between the gas key and tube. |
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Did the XM177E2 have Colt proof marks in front of the ejection port door?
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Yes |
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Thanks to ranchhand, we now have Edition III.
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Man I really regret selling that barrel.. But a 601 clone was born because of it so... |
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I love this site...I just learned a lot more today...I'm getting into the retro build
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Ride it like you stole it....L.E.O. GUAM
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Ekie, do you have any plans on adding info for the XM607?
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Don't see any possibility that I will find a real XM607 barrel or buttstock, so no. |
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Good thread. I was issued a CAR-15 (653) when I got to my unit in 86. Later that year we switched over to M16A2s, but those that were issued carbines kept the A1s because the A2 carbines were not available. We got the 753 with the M203 stepoff a few months later in early 87. They were still referred to as CAR-15, at least informally. During the transition, while the majority of the battalion had M16A2s, we were issued the new ammo. When we would zero the older carbines at 25m, they could not stabalize the ammo and it was common to see a hole in the target that looked like a sideways profile of the bullet. I am glad I did not have to use that combination of rifle/cartridge in combat.
RTLW 1/75 86-89. |
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Great info. That should have been a 727's you guys got in 87, with A2 rear sights. Did you just get new uppers, or new complete Carbines? |
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Definatly not 727's. I remember thinking it should have had the A2 sights. I have a picture of myself in Jordan in 89 and I am carrying a CAR-15, but I dont know how much detail is in the pic. Let me see if I can find it when I get home. We got all new carbines. |
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We have this pic of a Ranger with a 653:
And these with 727 Carbines, or 727 uppers on 653 lowers: You describe a 723, would be great if you had pictures of those in service with the Rangers. Am planning on adding who used which Carbine/Commando to the guide, but this information is hard to get in that save the M4 and the XM177 series none of these are standard issue. Pretty much have to go by pictures. |
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The SGT in the first pick was before my time. (I think I may know who it is but am not sure, I will check with some contacts) By the scrolls he wears, that picture was taken after Grenada (Oct 83), But before the Regiment formed in 84. Good chance he is a 90mm Recoiless rifle gunner (another Ranger is carrying one in the background). Until I left in 89, Rangers that carried CAR-15s were mortar and 90 asst. gunners along with RTOs and some medics. I think some M60 AGs might have carried them but am not sure. For the 90 crews, they would switch off carrying the 90 and when the gunner switched off, he would carry the carbine/rifle of the AG or ammo bearer. A few 90 gunners I know carried a carbine along with the 90, but it wasnt standard. If you have the carbine slung patrol style, and are carrying the 90, the carbine will swing back and forth. That is why alont of gunners just carried the 1911A1/M9. I carried one while serving as a FDC RTO, 60mm asst gunner and FDC Cheif /RTO (we were short-handed so I ws my own RTO). I never saw them assigned by rank and I never saw support MOS people carry them that did not rate one. It was given to those that already had a ton of weight assigned to them to carry.
The others pics are after my time. We did not have the same type of body armor and I dont remember ever seeing a .50 cal in 1st Batt. |
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Have posted this pic a few times. And awhile back there was a guy that knew who he was. Said that he died of cancer awhile back.
Yes, those are circa 1993. |
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Minor update.
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Learn something new everytime I check this thread. Here is a question for you Ekie, one I have had for a long time. Component part names & numbers manufactured by Colt lists the M16 & the XM177 upper receiver both as 62306, while the M16A1 upper reciever is listed solely as 62278 and the XM177E2 upper receiver as XM7306. Why a different name/number for the Commando's forward assist upper? Can you shed any light on this, & if an XM177E2 upper was found on the loose, how would you ID/recognize it? Thanks Kenneth
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I see you are paying attention. Did notice the different part number, but don't know what it means.
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Ekie, great thread, very helpful. Would you know if all Colt CAR stocks (the middle one in your photo) are marked with 1's or N symbols? I've got an almost identical stock off a Colt and it has no markings at all, it came off a Colt and I'm beginning to question its authenticity. Thanks!
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No, and "all" is best avioded when talking Colt's. |
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Ain't that true. Thanks. |
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I've been promising Ekie for a while that I'd post some photos of the 607 in the Oregon Military Musuem collection. Actually, I really don't like that factory model number and prefer the Military designation, GX-5857. This SMG is in about new condition and is left over from the 1960s Infantry Board tests at Fort Benning.
Sorry the images aren't a bit better but conditions weren't too favorable in the vault for quality photography. Hopefully, some will be adequate to add to the variation guide. Handguards. It's not that apparent from the photo, but I think the gage of the sheet steel used in the rear retainer ring is heavier than what is normally seen in the reproductions. Not by much but maybe .010 or .015. I'll try to verify that later. Barrel markings. Note that the barrel is new enough that the dab of black paint is still present to cover the bare metal in the proofs. Suppressor Better view of the receiver markings. Stock Buttplate and latch. |
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