Let's just talk "hypothetically".

"Hypothetically", if:

A company has been working the past few years developing a metal magazine for the LWRC SIX8 and other potential receiver sets to be made using said magazine, and they have the full support of LWRC, so that concern is out of the way.  Let's say they have finally successfully had said magazine designed by large magazine manufacturers and they have CAD's for 10, 20 and 30 round capacities on hand.

Let's say they designed two versions - one for the 6.8SPC case body, and one for the 6.5 Grendel case body.

Let's say this company brought a functional 3D printed model of this magazine with them to the 2019 SHOT show, met with some very large Ammunition and Firearms manufacturers, showed it to them, and all were supportive.  Let's say they have production bids and schedules from a couple large, well known magazine manufacturers.

Let's say that there are additional compatible receiver set manufacturers lined up and ready to produce receiver sets that are compatible with the new metal magazine, as well as the original Magpul SIX8 Pmag.  Let's say that these additional receiver set manufacturers have sets priced at $350 or less.  Let's say one company already released their version of the compatible receiver sets and sold out in a couple weeks.

Let's say that the nominal Cartridge Overall Length capability of the magazines is 2.390", and that the published COAL will most likely be 2.380" to account for manufacture anomalies.  Let's say that said company has developed a new line of cartridges designed to take full advantage of the new COAL, and has dropped hints sporadically over time eluding to such.

Let's say that many other existing cartridges like the 6.8SPC, the 224 Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, and 6.5 Grendel will all be able to take advantage of the increased COAL in some capacity (Load Long), without having to "window" mags, providing full mag capacity at the long lengths.  Let's say that if one (the large ammunition companies and individuals) were so inclined, using the parameters these magazines would provide by design, that a cartridge with 40 grains H2O case capacity running at 55k PSI MAP would beat current 6.8SPCII and 6.5 Grendel numbers by ~200 fps could easily be designed.

Let's say said company owns the magazine designs, that they are US Patent Pending, dozens of NDA's are in place and that production could start as soon as the tooling is paid for.  Let's say that we all understand what this new development is capable of turning into; how an entirely new family of cartridges would be developed to take advantage of it, and how it may have just a slight impact on the industry by providing rifles with the same weight, design, size, and ergonomics of an AR15 - using all AR15 compatible parts except the receiver set, the magazine and the mag catch, but with cartridges that none can compete with from a standard AR15.  Let's say that perhaps a company is considering designing an entirely new rifle platform around this metal magazine.

Let's say that these metal magazines will not cost much more (or maybe less) than the currently available Magpul Pmags for the platform.

Let's say that said company is currently discussing with and seeking additional distributors and dealers to solidify the supply chain.  Let's say that once the tooling is funded, magazines would be "on shelves" about 6 months later.  Let's say the company is considering crowd-funding the tooling, and providing those that contributed magazines at a discount for their contribution to get the project off the ground.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that all of the above were accurate.

Would you give this a "Meh", or would you give this a "I'll take a few"?

Asking for a friend.

That being said, if any fellow ARFCOM Industry Partners would like to contact us for more information or to get involved, please feel free to do so.

*SIX8 is a Trademark of LWRC International, LLC

Placeholder.

Magazine Manufacturers(s):

1) Company A (TBA) - Anticipated pricing for 30 Round magazine in either SPC or Grendel versions:  $XX.00, anticipated pricing for 20 and 10 Round magazines in either SPC or Grendel versions:  $XX.00
2)  Company B (TBA) - Anticipated pricing for 30 Round magazine in either SPC or Grendel versions:  $XX.00, anticipated pricing for 20 and 10 Round magazines in either SPC or Grendel versions:  $XX.00

Rifle/Receiver Manufacturers:

1) LWRC SIX8 - the original, parent of the design platform - various Rifles in SIX8 configuration available in 6.8SPC, 224 Valkyrie.  Receiver sets and/or builders kits sold via special run.
2) Sulzer Firearms - Receiver sets for $350/set - Billet, Cerakote
3) New Frontier Armory - Receiver sets for $275/set - Billet, Hard Coat Anodized - committed to manufacture in February of 2019, design and engineering ongoing, to be released soon.

Existing Cartridges that could benefit from a 2.30"-2.39" COAL:

SPC-case:

224 Valkyrie
22 Nosler
6.8SPC/6.8SPCII
6 WOA
6mm PDK
6mm Hagar
22 GPC
24 GPC
25 GPC
26 GPC
27 GPC
28 GPC
30 GPC
6x6.8
22x6.8

Grendel-case:

6.5 Grendel
22 Grendel
6mm Grendel
257 H&H/(25 Grendel)
7mm Grendel
30 ARX
30 Major
35 Grendel/358 Gremlin
338 Grendel
6mmAR Turbo and Turbo 40

Picturing the possibilities is the secret sauce.

It could be simple, pre-order mags through a crowdfund campaign... say you buy 4 mags at a discount, those funds go to the tooling and product and you get your mags once funded and done.  Crowdfund campaign would run a couple months, then around 6 months to produce the magazines.

Dont know if "the company" will need to do that though if enough investors line up and go straight to a distribution model.  Let's see what people think before whoever executes either.

A lot of people have been saying for a long time they want this, and here it is.

Receiver sets will only get cheaper if this takes off, not more expensive.

They can't be named yet, but the manufacturers that are engaged are known for making the best 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, and even 7.62x39 (hard to develop a reliable AR mag in x39) mags available on the market combined.

This is being done to (help) enhance the capabilities of already existing cartridges like the 6.8SPC, the 6.5 Grendel, all of the variants made from both AND open the door for new, made-for-platform cartridges to be made that are true intermediate cartridges between the AR15 and AR10 platform.

Doesnt work like that here. The receiver sets all use standard AR15 parts except the magazine and magazine catch.

Well they should be available by the time you're ready then, as long as we see it is worth the investment!

Ha, agreed, but - you do not get yourself into a super-charged Mustang for the price of an Escort!

Receiver set prices come down as demand rises and supply follows.

They do indeed.  All standard AR15 parts except (the receiver set), magazine and magazine catch.

Come on man, I'm already overloaded.

Sounds like a good idea from a purely mechanical point of view. But it's a niche inside of a niche in terms of market share.

@mike_nds

Hey Mike love your receivers... my 277 Wolverine Tantal is built on one of them.

It's only niche within niche because no one did it yet... then it moves to just 1 niche and then when a company like Hornady or Federal launches a cartridge for it, it's full-blown mainstream.

If you want to know how easy it is to make the receiver set, just let me know!

Thing is, you can already load to about 2.4" in most bolt guns so it wouldn't be a stand-alone in that regard.

AK's used to be a niche... but those of us that knew better, knew better.  Lots of potential!

Gotta start somewhere!

Yes, a niche can be turned into something pretty big, we did it with AK receivers and the Retro program.

I'm not an advanced handloader, so correct me if I'm wrong. Wouldn't this also require barrels with longer throats to take advantage of the longer bullet seating?

And to make it appeal to a broader audience you will have to get cheap factory ammo in the pipe because not everyone handloads.

Performance vs size has always been the quandary with AR-15's.

Yep - it just take someone to step up, invest, communicate and take the risk.

The 6.8SPC guys have wanted a way to "load long" for years... there is plenty of freebore in the SPCII to load out to 2.4" with some bullets.... which increases accuracy for some, velocity for some.

There's a few threads around town about loading the Grendel long and what you can do there with some bullets... even using some that they could not use before due to mag length restrictions.  All that goes away.

But, yes as well - in some cases with certain cartridges if you don't increase your freebore you will only be encroaching on the lands with certain bullets.

Cheap factory ammo is up to the big boys... we met with a couple at SHOT and they will support the endeavor any way they can... including considering new cartridge options or specific loads for the platform.  They just want to see it get launched before they invest, which is fair.

See you are correct and that's the point.  This will benefit existing cartridges like the 224 Valkyrie, the 22 Nosler, the 6.8SPC, the 6.5 Grendel...

The receiver sets are easy to make.  You don't "copy" the LWRC set, you take a receiver set and make it work with the metal mag (and therefore also Pmag), whichever way you want to look at it.  Sulzer Firearms did this and they are a smaller firm... and sold out of their first run.  All you need to do this is broach the new magwell, accommodate the magazine in the upper receiver, and replace the mag catch.  The mag catch can be tricky but it isn't hard either.

There is a third manufacturer in the wings ready to go as well once we formally announce the launch/program.  They are not small, and are known for making awesome receivers in many cartridges and platforms.  Take a look at New Frontier Armory's C4 Receiver set.  Now just picture that made to fit the magazine.

Yes 5.56 versions and ".308 case" versions are possible, too.  Seriously, it's a slam dunk.  The first ones to be made will be 6.8SPC case and 6.5 Grendel case because those two platforms offer more case capacity than 5.56, and, cartridges like our "Fat Cats" are not as mainstream yet.

2.390" in either 6.8SPC case-body or 6.5 Grendel case-body to start... 10, 20 and 30 rounders!

Just kidding!  It's ok, we understand your position.  But, once we are able to say exactly who is making the magazines, you may change your mind!

So with the extra .130" of COAL what kind of performance gain can you expect in a 6.5G with 140gr bullets?

I don't have a 6.5G currently, but I love the Swede and having the same capability in an AR is intriguing.

Well I can't answer that because I don't even own one... but I am sure any of the Grendel aficionados would be happy to let you now.  I can tell you that in the SPCII, you can velocity and accuracy using the Berger 130's and similar.

I can also tell you that we have a cartridge drawn specifically for the mags/platform, that holds 40 grains H2O and can push a 123SST or 123 ELD-M about 200 fps faster than the Grendel, which is only about 200fps slower than the Creedmoor.

I don't know what the gains with the Grendel would be with a 140 grain - it is a heavy-for-caliber bullet... and I am not experienced enough with the Grendel to say which bullets will take advantage - but there is a thread here I posted inquiring.  I'll try to find it.

We moved the front rib on the mags forward some so they ride on the cartridge necks, not the neck/shoulder junction.  This way, longer case-bodies can be used as well as accommodating the original parents (6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel).

So, the opportunities for more cartridges with more case capacity and loaded longer are all there my friend.

here is an estimate for a long loaded grendel with a 140 sst from a 24" barrel

@mike_nds

Thanks B.

Will your upper receiver work on an LWRC lower?  Not my receiver sets, we are just getting the mags done.  To answer though, the upper receivers are generally thicker, like Billet - to accommodate the portion that gets milled out to accept the larger magazine.  The spec on material to be removed remains the same - to accommodate the magazine is all you need to do.  One of our guys took an upper (Bear Creek side-charge I think?) and milled a little out and it runs great.  so, the spec to accept the magazine is the same.  We cannot control whatever anyone else does in the marketplace though.  Again we are just getting the mags made and we develop cartridges.

Will your lower receiver work with an LWRC upper receiver?  Same as above but lower vs. upper.  As an FYI the LWRC has a lot of doo-dads on it, and I don't think the newer less expensive sets will accommodate all their doo-dads (technical talk).

Will your lower receiver work with LWRC/Magpul six8 magazines?  Yes - the metal magazines have the same outer dimensions as the Pmags, so they both will fit in any gun that accepts them.

Will your metal mags work in the LWRC lower receiver?  Same as above, yes, vice-versa.

Sorry if you covered this in the op.  No problem, happy to help.

the lwrc lowers will take standard uppers but they are not milled for the mag. until others are out it is hard to say, the only issue i had when milling the upper out to fit is th lwrc has ambi bolt release and i had to mill the upper to fit. i will check the sulzer to see if it fit the lwrc

There's always this if you are looking for something in 6mm.  Factory 6.8SPC next to our 24 GPC.  There's a thread on our GPC line here, too though... the difference is immediately noticeable.

I did shoot a note to PSA... nothing substantial back yet, but I just did it today.  I think it will take end users contacting them more so than me.