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Posted: 8/23/2017 8:20:17 AM EDT
I'm looking to acquire a new caliber for hunting deer, hogs, etc...something that packs a little more punch than a 556/223 round. Looking to stay in the AR platform.
With the PSA deals on their PA10, that's obviously one way to go to get myself into a 308. I've also considered 300 BO, 6.5G, and 6.8 SPCII uppers There are pros and cons to each of these. I like the idea of the PA10 to have a complete rifle but then I'm getting into a new mount, scope, etc which is fine I guess. Looking to talk through the options. Budget is flexible but not looking to spend more than 1k all in. I reload FWIW and already have .30 cal components. |
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I'm looking to acquire a new caliber for hunting deer, hogs, etc...something that packs a little more punch than a 556/223 round. Looking to stay in the AR platform. With the PSA deals on their PA10, that's obviously one way to go to get myself into a 308. I've also considered 300 BO, 6.5G, and 6.8 SPCII uppers There are pros and cons to each of these. I like the idea of the PA10 to have a complete rifle but then I'm getting into a new mount, scope, etc which is fine I guess. Looking to talk through the options. Budget is flexible but not looking to spend more than 1k all in. I reload FWIW and already have .30 cal components. View Quote It's all a personal choice, everyone will have a different suggestion. Try several! lol The 7.62x39 is nice here in Arkansas, 308 is a bit much for our deer. |
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What ranges will you be shooting? Brush or open country?
308s are nice with plenty of power but they are a bit heavier than the AR-15 variants. They can also be finicky to get running properly. I'm building one myself and I have been advised to use a heavy 10oz buffer. These buffers are expensive and add even more weight to the rifle. 300 BLK is fine with 110 or 120 grain bullets as long as you keep your shots to under 175 yards. 150 would be a better bet IMHO. They are also easily suppressed if you ever want to shoot suppressed. 6.5 and 6.8 are both great out to 300 yards. Past 300 the 6.5's better BC takes over and will shoot flatter. You'll still need to hold over though. You can now get steel cased 6.5 for cheep, just for practicing. The Big Bores .450, .458, .50 are really hard hitters and better for brush, but you significantly reduce your range and your magazine capacity. Not a problem if your shots are under 125 yards and the rifles sole purpose is hunting. Pick your poison. |
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What ranges will you be shooting? Brush or open country? 308s are nice with plenty of power but they are a bit heavier than the AR-15 variants. They can also be finicky to get running properly. I'm building one myself and I have been advised to use a heavy 10oz buffer. These buffers are expensive and add even more weight to the rifle. 300 BLK is fine with 110 or 120 grain bullets as long as you keep your shots to under 175 yards. 150 would be a better bet IMHO. They are also easily suppressed if you ever want to shoot suppressed. 6.5 and 6.8 are both great out to 300 yards. Past 300 the 6.5's better BC takes over and will shoot flatter. You'll still need to hold over though. You can now get steel cased 6.5 for cheep, just for practicing. The Big Bores .450, .458, .50 are really hard hitters and better for brush, but you significantly reduce your range and your magazine capacity. Not a problem if your shots are under 125 yards and the rifles sole purpose is hunting. Pick your poison. View Quote |
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I was in the same spot and chose 6.5 Grendel. To me, it's the ultimate hunting cartridge for an AR. The magazine capacity is still good, the ballistics are unbeaten, the factory ammo selection is awesome, and the components are becoming more plentiful.
You can get Hornady SST ammo for less than a buck a round, and you can get wolf steel case ammo for less than 25 cents a round. With my 18" barrel it's capable of taking game to 400yds, and is very effective on animals. I have dropped 2 black bear and 2 mule deer with it. One bear was 300lbs and got dropped hard by 1 shot at 130yds. Attached File |
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Any of the AR-15 big bore cartridges are easily 200-250 yards guns. They are not as flat shooting or as accurate as some other cartridges mentioned so far but they will shoot close to MOA (certainly Minute of Deer Vitals) out that far easily and carry enough energy for pig or deer. With the plethora of scopes that have some type of bullet drop reticle it's pretty easy to work out the dope for the cartridge out to those ranges. View Quote swampie |
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I find 223 to be very affective. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/442866/IMG_0500_JPG-288147.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/442866/IMG_0631_JPG-288146.jpg View Quote swampie |
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Thanks for the replies. Shots will be mixed brush and open country, all under 300 yards but most at or under 100
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The .223/5.56 is very capable of taking pigs or deer, however; they are not legal hunting calibers in many states. swampie View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I find 223 to be very affective. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/442866/IMG_0500_JPG-288147.jpghttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/442866/IMG_0631_JPG-288146.jpg swampie Or I might just buy a Tikka T3X in 6.5 Creedmoor and call it good. |
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300 Blackout would be perfect in a smaller and lighter package than an ar10
I find ar10s a bit clunky for my taste |
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6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, 300 Blackout, and .308 Winchester were at the top of my list when I was looking into this. The 6.5 Grendel steel cased Wolf at $0.25 per round was the kicker. Lots of practice at the same cost as my 5.56 seemed like a no-brainer.
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Grendel will save room in the safe... There are some deals on Bear Creek uppers... PA just had a 20" railed upper for $300 last week. You can swap onto an existing lower. PA10 deals are also hard to pass up. $479 total for an upper and lower can't be beat. They also have the PX10 out which is a small frame dpms g2 knock-off from what I'm seeing that is running $800 I believe.
I'll be rocking a grendel myself this year. It is a great round and will probably be leaving my 556 builds to gather dust except for some range time now and then. If I were going to have serious longer shots though I would pick the 308 or 30-06 but grendel works for me down here in FL. |
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I'm really thinking I may go with the 300 BO. I won't need to take the longer shots often and I reload so will be able to keep costs down.
I have seen the Bear Creek brand but am not familiar with it. That doesn't mean much. I do have a 308 bolt action but it's more for bench shooting. Have some money tied into it and don't want to drag it through the woods |
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I'm really thinking I may go with the 300 BO. I won't need to take the longer shots often and I reload so will be able to keep costs down. I have seen the Bear Creek brand but am not familiar with it. That doesn't mean much. I do have a 308 bolt action but it's more for bench shooting. Have some money tied into it and don't want to drag it through the woods View Quote Steel case Grendel is $230 per 1k, and will easily out perform 300blk. Plus you're not handicapped with Grendel, if you have an opportunity to shoot longer range, it'll easily do it. |
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What will 300blk do better than 6.5 Grendel? How cheaply can you load 300blk? Steel case Grendel is $230 per 1k, and will easily out perform 300blk. Plus you're not handicapped with Grendel, if you have an opportunity to shoot longer range, it'll easily do it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm really thinking I may go with the 300 BO. I won't need to take the longer shots often and I reload so will be able to keep costs down. I have seen the Bear Creek brand but am not familiar with it. That doesn't mean much. I do have a 308 bolt action but it's more for bench shooting. Have some money tied into it and don't want to drag it through the woods Steel case Grendel is $230 per 1k, and will easily out perform 300blk. Plus you're not handicapped with Grendel, if you have an opportunity to shoot longer range, it'll easily do it. Too many choices. Which I guess is a good thing |
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That's true. I don't plan on suppressing or SBR so that eliminates some of the value of 300blk. For a hunting a rig a flatter bullet makes more sense, too. Too many choices. Which I guess is a good thing View Quote |
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6.5 Grendel opens up a lot of doors that are permanently closed for .300 Blackout.
There isn't anything performance-wise the .300 can do for hunting that the Grendel doesn't do better, and the Grendel exceeds the .300s performance even if you compare a 10.5" Grendel to a 16" .300 BO. You have the opportunity to choose something very compact that hits outside of its weight class. The main benefit of .300 BO I've seen is for certain units that do a lot of shooting inside the house and want to reduce the exposure of shooters to repeated overpressure within the walls of a building or enclosed space, by using suppressed subsonic. Once we venture into the supersonic realm, it's a very anemic cartridge compared to what's out there, but it will still kill things deader than dead within its capable engagement range for expansion. One major consideration for the layman is buying premium ammo meant to expand at .300 BO speeds, like the Barnes VOR-TX, which costs ~ $30+/box of 20. Cheapest I see brass-cased .300 for is 70 cents a piece for a hollow point, not too bad. There is a lot of remanufactured ammo for it, which I tend to steer way clear from personally. .300 BO allows you to use a shorter barrel for suppressed use if you want a really compact package with an 8" pipe and a lightweight can, since the muzzle pressure is lower, corresponding with the very small volume of case capacity. With Grendel, you have 48 original factory loads ranging from 23 cent steel case to premium hunting or TGT ammo. Depending on what you're doing, either will work for you. There are pros and cons to each. Some people see the commonality of magazines as a major pro for the .300 BO, whereas the list of forum members seems to be growing rapidly as to how many catastrophic failures they've had with .300 getting fired from 5.56 ARs and blowing them apart into fragments all over the range. That isn't happening with 6.5 Grendel since neither will fit in the other's chamber (5.56 & Grendel). |
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AR10, .308. Good for both hogs and deer. Lots of ammunition options and its readily available.
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Do I lose much velocity going with a 20" vs 24" barrel in 6.5? Thinking for hunting the 20 will be easier to carry. May lose some potential benefit at longer ranges but I could live with that
What's the general consensus of the Bear Creek brand being sold at Primary Arms? |
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That's true. I don't plan on suppressing or SBR so that eliminates some of the value of 300blk. For a hunting a rig a flatter bullet makes more sense, too. Too many choices. Which I guess is a good thing View Quote |
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Do I lose much velocity going with a 20" vs 24" barrel in 6.5? Thinking for hunting the 20 will be easier to carry. May lose some potential benefit at longer ranges but I could live with that What's the general consensus of the Bear Creek brand being sold at Primary Arms? View Quote Keep it short and light, but still has enough power to take game at 300+ yards. Ballistic Advantage is the best new thing right now. |
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Do I lose much velocity going with a 20" vs 24" barrel in 6.5? Thinking for hunting the 20 will be easier to carry. May lose some potential benefit at longer ranges but I could live with that What's the general consensus of the Bear Creek brand being sold at Primary Arms? View Quote A Friend and I conducted a chronograph test last year with our 6.5 Grendel AR-15's and a Magneto Speed Chronograph. The temperature was 76 degrees, overcast skies, Barometric Pressure 30.05, Humidity 78 %, Dew Point 68 Degrees at 350' ASL. We shot at paper targets set at approximately 110 yards. The first 6.5 Grendel was a 16" chrome moly 1:9 twist J & T Distributing CAR gas system with a Double Star lower, Double Star 6 position collapsable stock with a RRA LPK and RRA NM trigger. A E O Tech 512 mounted for the test. First hand load to test chronograph, 85 grain Sierra Varmint JHP, 29.0 grains X-Terminator, S/B large rifle primer fire formed mixed 7.62X39 brass. 1. 2718 2. 2712 3. 2682 4. 2700 5. 2771 6. 2718 7. 2703 8. 2706 9. 2690 10 2696 Max 2771 Min. 2682 Avg. 2709 S-D 24.4 120 grain HP BT PPU lot # 23 15 02 1. 2409 2. 2397 3. 2383 4. 2391 5. 2380 Max 2409 Min 2380 Avg 2392 S-D 11.6 110 grain FMJ PPU lot # 19 15 01 1. 2501 2. 2499 3. 2527 4. 2516 5. 2507 Max 2527 Min 2499 Avg 2510 S-D 11.5 123 grain A-Max Hornady lot # 3110140 1. 2415 2. 2430 3. 2401 4. 2418 5. 2431 Max 2431 Min 2401 Avg 2419 S-D 12.2 123 Grain SST Hornady lot # 3140701 1. 2441 2. 2445 3. 2433 4. 2416 5. 2437 Max 2441 Min 2416 Avg 2430 S-D 10 Hand load 123 grain Nosler CC 31.0 grains CFE 223, CCI 450, Hornady cases. 1. 2448 2. 2444 3. 2446 4. 2448 5. 2460 Max 2460 Min 2444 Avg 2449 S-D 6.2 100 grain FMJ Wolf steel case lot # 23 IP 01 2015-01 1. 2515 2. 2499 3. 2486 4. 2509 5. 2528 Max 2528 Min 2486 Avg 2507 S-D 15.9 The next 6.5 Grendel we tested was a 18" Brownell's Liberty 1:8 twist stainless Steel barrel mid length gas system, RRA railed hand guard with Vortex 4-16 Viper PST, RRA NM trigger and RRA 6 position stock. 120 grain HP BT PPU 1. 2460 2. 2443 3. 2459 4. 2444 5. 2470 Max 2470 Min 2443 Avg 2455 S-D 11.4 110 grain FMJ PPU 1. 2544 2. 2580 3. 2550 4. 2585 5. 2591 Max 2591 Min 2544 Avg 2570 S-D 21.4 123 grain A-Max Hornady 1. 2467 2. 2451 3. 2488 4. 2453 5. 2461 Max 2488 Min 2451 Avg 2464 S-D 14.8 123 Grain SST Hornady 1. 2493 2. 2489 3. 2490 4. 2491 5. 2502 Max 2502 Min 2489 Avg 2493 S-D 5.1 100 Grain Wolf FMJ Steel Cased 1. 2583 2. 2576 3. 2575 4. 2567 5. 2555 Max 2583 Min 2555 Avg 2571 S-D 10.6 Hand Load 123 grain Nosler CC 31.0 CFE 223, CCI 450, Hornady cases. 1. 2459 2. 2469 3. 2479 4. 2484 5. 2468 Max 2484 Min 2459 Avg 2471 S-D 9.8 We next tested a 20" Shilen 1:9 twist SS barrel, Vortex Viper 6.5-20X50 scope, PSA upper and lower, Hogue free float tube, RRA NM LPK with PSA 6 position stock. 120 grain HP BT PPU 1. 2488 2. 2478 3. 2486 4. 2467 5. 2483 Max 2488 Min 2467 Avg 2480 S-D 8.3 110 grain FMJ PPU 1. 2611 2. 2609 3. 2617 4. 2627 5. 2612 Max 2623 Min 2609 Avg 2614 S-D 5.6 123 grain A-Max Hornady 1. 2497 2. 2505 3. 2514 4. 2510 5. 2500 Max 2514 Min 2497 Avg 2505 S-D 6.9 123 grain SST Hornady 1. 2521 2. 2503 3. 2506 4. 2504 5. 2522 Max 2522 Min 2503 Ave 2511 S-D 9.4 123 grain Hand Load Nosler CC 31.0 CFE 223, CCI 450 AA cases. 1. 2534 2. 2521 3. 2532 4. 2529 5. 2518 Max 2534 Min 2518 Avg 2526 S-D 7.0 100 grain FMJ Wolf Steel Cased 1. 2625 2. 2622 3. 2620 4. 2608 5. 2602 Max 2625 Min 2602 Avg 2615 S-D 9.8 107 grain Hand Load SMK, 28.5 IMR8208XBR CCI 41 Hornady cases. 1. 2650 2. 2664 3. 2666 4. 2665 5. 2648 Max 2666 Min 2648 Avg 2658 S-D 8.8 The last rifle we tested was a 24" Alexander Arms 1:9 twist 6.5 Grendel chrome moly barrel with Millet scope. 120 grain HP BT PPU 1. 2546 2. 2558 3. 2584 4. 2554 5. 2553 Max 2584 Min 2546 Avg 2559 S-D 14.6 110 Grain FMJ PPU 1. 2700 2. 2680 3. 2681 4. 2678 5. 2680 Max 2700 Min 2678 Avg 2683 S-D 9.1 123 Grain A-Max Hornady 1. 2574 2. 2563 3. 2580 4. 2557 5. 2570 Max 2580 Min 2557 Avg 2568 S-D 9 123 Grain SST Hornady 1. 2587 2. 2582 3. 2575 4. 2590 Only 4 shots Max 2590 Min 2575 Avg 2583 S-D 6.5 123 Grain Hand Load Nosler CC 31.0 Grains CFE 223, CCI 450, Hornady cases. 1. 2623 2. 2608 3. 2624 4. 2622 5. 2618 Max 2624 Min 2608 Avg 2619 S-D 6.5 100 grain FMJ Wolf Steel Cased. 1. 2691 2. 2684 3. 2697 4. 2701 5. 2702 Max 2702 Min 2684 Avg 2695 S-D 7.4 107 Grain Hand Load SMK 28.5 IMR8208XBR, CCI 41, Hornady Cases. 1. 2745 2. 2737 3. 2717 4. 2707 5. 2739 Max 2745 Min 2707 Avg 2729 S-D 16.1 123 Grain Hand Load, Nosler CC, 28.5 Accurate 2520 1. 2531 2. 2543 3. 2542 4. 2487 5. 2552 6. 2549 7. 2544 8. 2557 9. 2541 10 2555 Max 2557 Min 2487 Avg 2540 S-D 20.1 |
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Thanks for all the data and posts. Lots to think about. Honestly I don't think there's a bad choice...though I do feel 300BO is at the bottom of the pile. I may just stick with my original PA10 .308. I handload and can build DOPE that I trust even if it does drop a bit. I wouldn't take any shot I wasn't comfortable with. I think it's between that an 6.5 Grendel. Though I like the idea of a new caliber and something in between 223 & 308. It would give me a new round to tinker with but probably the most expensive option
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I was in the same spot and chose 6.5 Grendel. To me, it's the ultimate hunting cartridge for an AR. The magazine capacity is still good, the ballistics are unbeaten, the factory ammo selection is awesome, and the components are becoming more plentiful. You can get Hornady SST ammo for less than a buck a round, and you can get wolf steel case ammo for less than 25 cents a round. With my 18" barrel it's capable of taking game to 400yds, and is very effective on animals. I have dropped 2 black bear and 2 mule deer with it. One bear was 300lbs and got dropped hard by 1 shot at 130yds. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/277473/20160928_184506_resized_2_-288143.JPG View Quote |
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Had the same thoughts and building a 6.5Grendal for a Deer and Antelope which will also be great for sod puppies, coyotes and hogs when I go south.
Most of my shots are in open country and out to 600yds and the 6.5 Grendel is fully capable of getting out there. |
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If you have kids the Grendel is a great starter round. I still have my .308"s but to tell you the truth I can't remember the last time I shot the AR10 and the 7400 was last used two years ago in the mountains to drop a buck in big timber. The part I think the .300 Blackout shines at is cast lead bullets. But for hunting I'm not impressed. I'd rather have a 6.8 or 6.5 grendel.
Oh I do like the Grendel with 95gr Vmax for coyotes. It puts a little more hurt on them than the .223 with a 50gr bullet. But makes about the same sized hole as the 75gr'ers out of the .223. Whatever you decide have fun. |
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What does that gun weigh as shown? View Quote 18" barrel, 15" handguard, 4-16x optic, and a SOPMOD enhanced stock that weighs 12oz. So it's not a tiny gun, but it's very efficient, very comfortable to use and very light for it's size. |
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Thanks for the replies. Shots will be mixed brush and open country, all under 300 yards but most at or under 100 View Quote Although I am going to be honest once you go with a big bore your probably will find anything smaller less than ideal. I have two Grendels one pistol and one rifle as well, but for under 200yds 450 bushmaster makes them DRT. |
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I would say that you don't have to pick the cartridge because its the best at any one or more or all parameter you want to measure. You can pick the cartridge simply because it's interesting, historic, unique or just because you think it is cool. So long as it is a legal cartridge for the species you're hunting go for it. Just understand the cartridge's strengths and weaknesses, hunt within those, and do you part to ensure you can put the bullet where it needs to be when it counts. I spent years hunting deer with a 410 slug gun because it was a challenge that interested me. I spent the past two years hunting deer with a revolver because that interested me. This year it will be 450 Bushmaster using my own reloads.
Pick something interesting! |
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http://i.imgur.com/dOBrPZW.gif The Grendel fanboy are out enforce in this thread I see... But I won't argue the merits of that cartridge here. Its a good cartridge but I really really don't care. It holds zero interest for me personally. I would say that you don't have to pick the cartridge because its the best at any one or more or all parameter you want to measure. You can pick the cartridge simply because it's interesting, historic, unique or just because you think it is cool. So long as it is a legal cartridge for the species you're hunting go for it. Just understand the cartridge's strengths and weaknesses, hunt within those, and do you part to ensure you can put the bullet where it needs to be when it counts. I spent years hunting deer with a 410 slug gun because it was a challenge that interested me. I spent the past two years hunting deer with a revolver because that interested me. This year it will be 450 Bushmaster using my own reloads. Pick something interesting! View Quote Life is too short not to have an assortment. Variety is the spice of life . I think I've settled on 6.5 Grendel. It sounds like the right fit in most aspects. I will have to acquire reloading components, including brass (300 BO or .308 would have allowed me to use existing brass) but that's life Feel free to continue the conversation though as I may be swayed |
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I was in the same quandary awhile back and I went with the 308 in an AR platform, I have since gotten a second one so both me and my boy have one. I have never dissatisfied with the 308, I have with the other calibers.
I recently went on a pig hunt and used a Grendel. I had good shots on pigs, but never a one and done shot as the pig soaked up several shots where I believe my 308 would have been one and done. I did like the Grendel and am interested in that being my next rifle, but it won't make the 308 a safe queen. 308 ammo is easy to get and it does the job! |
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http://i.imgur.com/dOBrPZW.gif The Grendel fanboy are out enforce in this thread I see... But I won't argue the merits of that cartridge here. Its a good cartridge but I really really don't care. It holds zero interest for me personally. I would say that you don't have to pick the cartridge because its the best at any one or more or all parameter you want to measure. You can pick the cartridge simply because it's interesting, historic, unique or just because you think it is cool. So long as it is a legal cartridge for the species you're hunting go for it. Just understand the cartridge's strengths and weaknesses, hunt within those, and do you part to ensure you can put the bullet where it needs to be when it counts. I spent years hunting deer with a 410 slug gun because it was a challenge that interested me. I spent the past two years hunting deer with a revolver because that interested me. This year it will be 450 Bushmaster using my own reloads. Pick something interesting! View Quote |
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That's true. I don't plan on suppressing or SBR so that eliminates some of the value of 300blk. For a hunting a rig a flatter bullet makes more sense, too. Too many choices. Which I guess is a good thing View Quote |
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The only thing funnier than a "fanboy" is someone that will cry about it and then admit it's a good choice all in the same paragraph. We know it's a good choice, that's why it's being suggested. If his goal was to pop hogs at under 100yds and be as quiet as possible, then I would suggest 300blk. If his goal was to use a cartridge that is expensive, abusive on the shooter, and has lots of drop at his expected ranges, I'd suggest a big bore. It's all about the right tool, and the Grendel fits the job perfectly. Not one person is out shooting coyotes and hogs regularly with a big bore, it's not the right tool. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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http://i.imgur.com/dOBrPZW.gif The Grendel fanboy are out enforce in this thread I see... But I won't argue the merits of that cartridge here. Its a good cartridge but I really really don't care. It holds zero interest for me personally. I would say that you don't have to pick the cartridge because its the best at any one or more or all parameter you want to measure. You can pick the cartridge simply because it's interesting, historic, unique or just because you think it is cool. So long as it is a legal cartridge for the species you're hunting go for it. Just understand the cartridge's strengths and weaknesses, hunt within those, and do you part to ensure you can put the bullet where it needs to be when it counts. I spent years hunting deer with a 410 slug gun because it was a challenge that interested me. I spent the past two years hunting deer with a revolver because that interested me. This year it will be 450 Bushmaster using my own reloads. Pick something interesting! Hunting is a recreation and I will be damn if I feel any need to try to find the "prefect" cartridge. I hunt with the gun and cartridge I want to. Sometimes I pick the inferior choice because I want the challenge. Sometime I pick the overkill because I want to see what it will do. I did not realize 6.5 Grendel fan boys were so sensitive. I have a hard time thinking any of the big bore AR-15 compatible cartridges as abusive to the shooter but maybe I am not as delicate. Don't be so serious have some fun with it. |
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Chill fanboy. The cartridge can be good and I can still get annoyed by its fanboy champions. I hunt with a 10mm handgun and yet will rib all the 10mm fanboys every chance I get to. Hunting is a recreation and I will be damn if I feel any need to try to find the "prefect" cartridge. I hunt with the gun and cartridge I want to. Sometimes I pick the inferior choice because I want the challenge. Sometime I pick the overkill because I want to see what it will do. I did not realize 6.5 Grendel fan boys were so sensitive. I have a hard time thinking any of the big bore AR-15 compatible cartridges as abusive to the shooter but maybe I am not as delicate. Don't be so serious have some fun with it. View Quote People that whine about "fanboys" are just that, whiners. He asked about variants that fit in an AR15 that are worthy of taking game to 300yds, he's getting answers for that. Just because your favorite thing hasn't been posted doesn't mean you need to come in here and shit on other peoples suggestions. We're all here for the same goal, no need for animosity. Sorry for swaying off topic OP, I'll ignore the trolls now. |
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I see any more comments about 'Fanbois' or other stupid shit expect to get a ban.
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For the record, I have decades of trigger time with 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester in substantial volumes, not even including the belt-fed weapons, so I have a very acute awareness of what the .308 is capable of, and what penalties come with it.
From that perspective, people might wonder why I no longer use it, and am completely satisfied with the performance of 6.5 Grendel in comparison to it. The twist rate of the Grendel might be one of the most overlooked factors in its performance on game, but to be honest, an 85gr+ projectile with proper construction hitting medium game through the vitals or CNS at more than twice the speed of sound is going to kill them. It's easier to get those hits with 6.5 Grendel than it is with .308 Winchester. Practical performance, as you can see from the videos I posted between the 2, is similar, seems to actually favor the Grendel. There were a lot of hogs that ran after getting hit in the neck and behind the shoulder with a .308 though. Go watch it and see. I can build and buy whatever I want exactly how I want it. So after decades of experience with many different cartridges, why do I choose not to shoot .308 Winchester anymore? |
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edit - sarcastic comments removed
The 375 SOSOM sounds really cool. As does the 35 caliber wildcat based on the 7.62x39 that a member did previously. Both would be expensive to feed, but fun. |
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The only thing funnier than a "fanboy" is someone that will cry about it and then admit it's a good choice all in the same paragraph. We know it's a good choice, that's why it's being suggested. If his goal was to pop hogs at under 100yds and be as quiet as possible, then I would suggest 300blk. If his goal was to use a cartridge that is expensive, abusive on the shooter, and has lots of drop at his expected ranges, I'd suggest a big bore. It's all about the right tool, and the Grendel fits the job perfectly. Not one person is out shooting coyotes and hogs regularly with a big bore, it's not the right tool. View Quote OP, 6.5 G probably suits your needs the best. |
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.458 is most definitely a hog round. OP, 6.5 G probably suits your needs the best. View Quote It all boils down to what you'll be doing with it. |
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I do like my grendel and my 308, even my 6.8 but the latter two get a lot less range time when cheap ammo is readily available when you just want to have fun at .24 cents a pop. Hunting wise it all costs about the same if your not a reloader.
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I would agree that it's very well suited for taking hogs, but most of what I see is shoot one hog, then blast away at running hogs. With 458 Socom your mag capacity is very low, price per round and recoil are very high (relatively). It just doesn't seem like an efficient choice for that task. It all boils down to what you'll be doing with it. View Quote Tony |
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FWIW, the .375 SOCOM has half the recoil of the 458 and has a good 100 yards of extra range on it, not to mention WAY more knock down power than the 6.8 or 6.5. I can't imagine needing more than 15 rounds in a typical hog hunting situation. Additionally, factory ammo is readily available from MidwayUSA. Tony View Quote For some guys none of those may matter to them, which is just fine. But that stuff is important to most people I'm guessing. |
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I have been switching from 308 to the Grendel, its a fun little round. I noticed that my 16" grendel with optic,sling and loaded 10 round mag was only about a half pound heavier than my Ar10 empty without optics. I think a 16" 6.5 would be perfect for what you are looking to do.
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FWIW, the .375 SOCOM has half the recoil of the 458 and has a good 100 yards of extra range on it, not to mention WAY more knock down power than the 6.8 or 6.5. I can't imagine needing more than 15 rounds in a typical hog hunting situation. Additionally, factory ammo is readily available from MidwayUSA. Tony View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would agree that it's very well suited for taking hogs, but most of what I see is shoot one hog, then blast away at running hogs. With 458 Socom your mag capacity is very low, price per round and recoil are very high (relatively). It just doesn't seem like an efficient choice for that task. It all boils down to what you'll be doing with it. Tony Before I run the numbers, I'm going to say pretty confidently that the .375 SOCOM does not have the retained energy of a 6.5 Grendel at 200yds. It might have more at 100yds though. It won't have the point blank range, and the expansion difference between the two won't be drastic since Grendel has so much ogive length to peel/mushroom. This is just my off-the-cuff guess based on the physics, not meant to be inflammatory at all. When I ran the ballistics against .450 BM and .50 Beowulf, I was surprised as well. OK. I'll see what the numbers are now. I find that the 200gr Sierra Pro Hunter has a .195 G1 BC at that speed, so it's going to shed energy terribly fast and drift, with slow Time of Flight for movers. 200gr Sierra Pro Hunter .375 SOCOM 16" AR15 0 2200fps 2149 ft-lbs 25yds 2097fps 1953 ft-lbs (devastating energy right there) 50yd 1998fps 1773 ft-lbs 75yd 1902fps 1606 ft-lbs this is still ~2x the muzzle energy of the hottest Buffalo Bore .357 Magnum pistol load I can find and just about what the Grendel has at the muzzle) 100yd 1808fps 1452 ft-lbs 125yd 1718fps 1311 ft-lbs (4" of drift and point blank limit with a 200yd zero) 16" Grendel 123gr Factory SST 2450fps 0 2450fps 1639 ft-lbs 25yd 2404fps 1578 ft-lbs 50yd 2358fps 1519 ft-lbs 75yd 2313fps 1461 ft-lbs 100yd 2268fps 1405 ft-lbs 125yd 2224fps 1351 ft-lbs The 200gr Sierra Pro Hunter fired from a 16" AR15 has merely 47ft-lbs more energy at 100yds than the Grendel, then is overtaken for retained energy. Grendel has more momentum from the start, faster ToF, and almost twice the no-hold zero/Point Blank Range of the .375 SOCOM. (16" Grendel/123gr SST has 225yd PBR with 200yd zero) What kind of expansion are you getting with that bullet? We see between .50 cal to .60 cal expansion, about 20" of penetration, with 81% weight retention average at 125yds with the 123gr SST. The .375 SOCOM has pretty impressive energy at 75yds still, which might be a consideration for someone hunting something big at close range in the brush. If expansion is in the .750 caliber region, that's a pretty brutal permanent wound channel, tearing a temporary stretch cavity with it. I know a lot of the .375 bullets are meant for higher pressure magnum cartridges, so what kind of expansion are you seeing across the impact spectrum? Any terminal ballistics like that being done? |
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