User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/20/2007 6:00:33 PM EDT
[#1]
One exists and one doesnt.
Kinda makes the answer pretty easy, doesnt it? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2007 7:05:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Maybe he speaks of the out-of-production bushmaster 308??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2007 9:47:23 PM EDT
[#3]
DMPS incorporates the original AR10 mag, a provem design where other manufacturers are designing rifles around a non AR10 mag patterns. The most mags in circulation that fit the most platforms are the original AR10, SR25 and DPMS 308 units. The current DMPS mags are $35 ea and are plentiful. KACs seem to be comming down as well and if you want to go retero the waffles sell for ten more than the DMPSs. RRA will not get the FAL mag and AR bolt to function reliably, they continue shooting themselves in the foot with the failed attempt with Bushy and the trademark lawsuit. If they were really interested in kicking ass they would fall into line and adopt the original AR10 mag design making Armalite the odd man out. I also believe it is the quickest way to market since nothing would be new and untested. If you own mags that fit several rifles types you're bound to get each type also. Free internet opinion. AR10-Dan in Ga |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2007 9:58:00 PM EDT
[#4]
I gotta ask, why aren't you considering Armalite?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/21/2007 1:12:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Hammer, nail, head. Why any new 308 AR wouldn't be designed around the original AR10/DPMS/KAC/POF/LWRC/Fulton Armory mags is beyond me. The 308 AR is being standardized, and DPMS is probably getting uber rich from selling the shit out of their mags to both shooters, and the many other manufacturers that are now using their mags in their 308 AR's. There's a reason so many people prefer the original AR10 style mags too. Magpul needs to make a 308 SR25 pattern PMAG, and ARES needs to make a drop in piston conversion for carbine length and midlength 308 AR's. Two products I think would sell great in a 308 semi auto market that's growing leaps and bounds every day. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/21/2007 2:59:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Or Knight's Armament , tough to find but they're out there ? My SR-25 was flawless until I sold it for an obscene amount of money 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/21/2007 3:31:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Perhaps he is like me, can't see where the extra money is going, especially given the strories of broken lowers. I didn't consider the armalite for more then one second when I bought my DPMS. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2007 11:13:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Still have two AR-10's - .308 and .243 - and had two SR-25's which I also sold for an "obscene amount of money "!! All were great rifles and shot better than me. I'm interested in the RRA .,308 but still none have been delivered. T |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2007 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#10]
OK say RRA gets their rifle on the market. Someone correct me if I am wrong, it will be just like the Bushmaster? maby some changes to the bolt/barrel exstention?
Here is one thing I noticed working on some Bushmasters, most rifles were very picky about the mags. Some would not click in place, some were hard to get latched and some when latched would not come out without some major jerking and pulling. The FAL mag has been made by so many Countries and has quite a bit of diffrent tolerances from maker to maker. I knew one person who sent his rifle back 3 times for mag fit problems and it was never fixed. Somethink else I didnt like about the Bushy 308 was the extra length of the upper/lower, compared to Armilate/DPMS rifles it lookes weird. And the location of the mag catch release leaver ( leaver not button) was the final straw for me, I just didnt think I could have gotten use to it, nor would I wont to, I love the way the AR15 system feels and would not enjoy trying to get use to it after shooting my AR15s for so many years. I think the Bushy/RRA was a good effort during the mag ban days, but now there are far better mags to be had....................... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/24/2007 4:02:58 PM EDT
[#11]
I have the best....move on
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 6:33:40 AM EDT
[#12]
MetalCrafty, have you actually worked on the BM-308 ?? I wouldn't buy the BM-308 at first because of no chrome lined barrel and later because of the problems. Finally, seems BM gave the project back to RRA. RRA has missed several delivery dates and still has not delivered, but I'm still interested in the FAL mag concept. A functioning .308 that USES FAL MAGS is about my only interest in the RRA gun. Do you have any idea of the percentage of FAL mags that worked/did not work ?? Any other thoughts on this platform ?? T |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:17:45 AM EDT
[#13]
If you are dead set on having a .308 AR that uses cheap mags then I recomend looking at the Cobb rifle with the G3 magwell. It is priced competitively and seems to be high quality. I'd have bought one myself if they were available when I built my DPMS. For what it's worth I had an Armalite and I think they are over rated/over priced compared to the DPMS.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:23:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Knight's or Armalite are the only two that qualify, IMO. mike |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:44:17 AM EDT
[#15]
This is the first I've heard of a lower breaking on a AR-10. It seems to me that the Armalite .308 lower would be less likely to break than the DPMS, since Armalite uses 7075 aluminum and DPMS uses 6061 (although I've never heard of a DPMS lower breaking). |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:56:57 AM EDT
[#16]
I have a 300 SAUM DPMS and the lower has not broke yet
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:42:17 AM EDT
[#17]
Agree with Knights as being the top... |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 9:55:55 AM EDT
[#18]
cs4895, don't buy into this tired old line of crap. There is nothing wrong with the design of the RRA .308 using FAL magazines. It is a myth probably started here, perpetuated and reinforced by teething pains experienced by some of BM's BAR-10's concerning the tail of the bolt breaking off. There was never any missing lugs on the bolt or barrel extension either - the major argument of the detractors of the BAR-10. There have been some issues with the quality of magazines, however, just as there is with the AR-15 platform. If you have ever used USA Magazines, you'll know what I am talking about. RRA's LAR-8 is hardly new and untested. Begining life as the BAR-10, the LAR-8 has had the distinct advantage of learning the weak points of a design already in production, and using that knowledge to improve/redesign their own product - all before going to market. RRA is a talented company, and when the LAR-8 finally hits the market I'm sure it'll make another great choice in AR-style .308 rifles. The question is: Do you feel like waiting to see what it offers? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 10:00:19 AM EDT
[#19]
I thought maybe it was just me but I too never heard of a broken ArmaLite AR-10 lower ???? |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 10:13:23 AM EDT
[#20]
If the RRA LAR-8 is tested, you must conclude the BM tests that you refer to were unsatisfactory. I'm tracking the LAR-8 and when it meets these 'modest' requirements I'll buy: 1) Works as advertised with a high percentage of FAL mags - both inch and metric. (This is my primary reason for interest.) 2) Has a reasonable track record for reliability. 3) Offers a carbine version with FF chrome lined barrel. The latest ship date is June 2007. Assuming that date turns out to be accurate, I guess I'm probably looking at late 2007/early 2008 before I buy. I presently have more guns than time to shoot so it's easier for me to wait than some. T |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 10:20:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Best? An ArmaLite AR-10 massaged by John Noveske or George Gardner.
If you are in to DPMS, more power to you. Both of those guys will make one for you on a DPMS base weapon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 11:04:02 AM EDT
[#22]
It isn't so black and white. You can't say the LAR-8 is untested and new, because it isn't - it's more of an evolution/refinement of the BAR-10. Does your AR-15 look like the original M-16 (w/o the FA goodies, of course), or has it changed and improved over the years? The BAR-10's marketing appeal was its ability to use cheap, available high-cap mags at a time when the AWB was still in place, and it was priced accordingly - quite a bit more than Armalite's AR-10. Unfortunately for BM, the sunset of the AWB gave its competitors the ability to manufacture compatible high-cap mags for their own rifles, essentially pulling the rug out from under BM's marketing strategy. Combined with the BAR-10's glitches and lackluster enthusiasm on BM 's part, it is no wonder they decided to stop production.
Why qualify it? If it works with a certain manufacturer/type and is readily available at a price you can live with, how is that different from any other gun? I don't buy USA Mags for my AR, I stick with brands I know will work.
Time will tell. Hopefully it will, since competition among the manufacturers works to our advantage.
To me, that is RRA's biggest drawback - their backorder time. They should work on getting it down to less than a month. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 11:52:03 AM EDT
[#23]
After examining the interface between the bolt and barrel extension, I don't believe any magazine designed for center feed will be as reliable as the original military AR-10 left/right feed magazines.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 12:02:49 PM EDT
[#24]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 12:59:24 PM EDT
[#25]
The FAL mag design worked so well Bushy abandoned it, that was three years ago, tired of waiting yet? It will never work reliably because of inheirent defeciencies of the center feed mag design. The real question is do you want a rifle that exists, shoots and feeds every time based on design features decades old, are you so cheap you'd bet you life on a $5 FAL mag now that the AWB is gone? AR10-Dan in Ga |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 7:07:16 PM EDT
[#26]
You're new around here... ain'tchaboy? Ain't ever heard we got our own farkin' E.F.Hutton. And it ain't you. Ever heard of Troy? No, not the BUIS company. They just use his name because he's so kewl. Now, go over in the corner and play with the broken BM .308 bolts. Yes, you can put them in your mouth like a dominatrix felatrix. Won't even ask ya to spell ARMALITE. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 8:01:37 PM EDT
[#27]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/25/2007 8:52:04 PM EDT
[#28]
I think he is talking to cs4895....I think....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 7:07:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Well if the mags feeding and being affordable is what you are looking for, Cobb's 308 that uses HK91/G3 mag is the one to go with. There are millions of mags, they work good and about a buck or two a piece.
The one I shot did sub-moa with Fed-GM308 match ammo. My 2cents worth cobb MCR 200 |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 8:51:06 AM EDT
[#30]
MetalCrafty, have you actually worked on the BM-308 ?? I wouldn't buy the BM-308 at first because of no chrome lined barrel and later because of the problems. Finally, seems BM gave the project back to RRA. RRA has missed several delivery dates and still has not delivered, but I'm still interested in the FAL mag concept. A functioning .308 that USES FAL MAGS is about my only interest in the RRA gun. Do you have any idea of the percentage of FAL mags that worked/did not work ?? Any other thoughts on this platform ?? T2 Yes I have worked on a number of the BAR 10 rifles, I must say the rifles were not having function problems and I never had anyone bring me one with a broken bolt, I know one of my customers who is in love with his BAR10, I instaled one of my brakes on it, instaled a JP trigger, FFt tube, adjustable gas block and carbide weighted carrier. It is a moa rifle and he is spankin but in 3 gun matches in major power. He is using inch pattern mags which seem to be made to a closer tolerance British/Ausarila mags at least, and the 30 rd bren mags work great in it also. All I know about the mag problem is if RRA does not do something diffrent than the BAR10 rifles there will be mag problems with some of the metric surplus mags, I have seen it first hand. Had one rifle that when you clicked some mags in it it was almost impossible to get them out, strang thing they would click in with ease. I never worked on it as it was new, he sent it back to BM. I had a chance to shoot these rifles some and they were accurate and functioned well, I just dont like the mag catch issue and the diffrent location of the mag release. If we were still in the mag ban era I would have bought one and fixed the problems and lived with the mag release location. I relly like the DPMS rifles and the stoner designed mag it uses, it just make sense to me to have a larg caliber to go with my AR15 platform that has the same controls location and a AR10 type mag (orignal AR10 designed mag) |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 12:44:43 PM EDT
[#31]
MC, thanks much for sharing your thoughts.
There's a very long post in the RRA Industry Forum and somewhere in there RRA Steve mentions that he has some primo 'INCH' pattern mags tucked away. Steve certainly does not say metric mags don't/won't work but I did note he preferred inch to metric. Again, thanks very much. T |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 2:42:41 PM EDT
[#32]
da-da-Dan, I was poking the stick at Hanover_Fists. da-da-damn, ya hurt me, man.  
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 5:50:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Sorry, you know, excitable boys.
 AR10-Dan in Ga |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/26/2007 7:50:31 PM EDT
[#34]
I have a BM BAR10A4 20". Ive set it up as a "precision" rifle. It certainly likes 168gr Match loads. I have had NO PROBLEMS with this rifle.
Ive got an SWFA SS10X mounted and recently installed a Magpul PRS. I plan on dropping a RRA NM trigger and freefloating the barrel soon and then I will have a damn good SASS clone. I test fit FAL mags and buy the ones that insert, lock in, hold the bolt open and pull free correctly. Ive talked to RRA employees face to face at Knob Creek the last 3 times I've attended the Shoot. According to them, with one of them being one of the main .308 rifle builders, Bushmaster only licensed the BAR from RRA. RRA was doing all the building of the line on receivers marked Bushmaster(of course) and supplying the finished rifles to BM. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 6:58:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Where in the heck did I put my porn dictionary..................
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 7:14:26 AM EDT
[#36]
Southern Paw, I too have heard the BM/RRA deal was a license deal. On "test fit FAL mags", do you see any trend where inch or metric work best ?? Any idea, of the mags you test, what per centage work ?? Thanks !! T |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 8:53:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Im not sure what the factory FAL mag it came with is, metric or inch. It works fine. I ordered 12 of the "Israeli" FAL mags from Sportsmans Guide a year or so ago and they all worked fine except for 2. I called their CSD and they sent me 2 more that worked fine. I test fit FAL mags at a gunshow and bought 8 that worked correctly. Im not sure which they are, metric or inch. Sorry that isnt much help. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2007 9:26:11 AM EDT
[#38]
More than I knew before and thank you. T |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 6:28:46 PM EDT
[#39]
To hell with the FAL mags. Sounds great but not proven. Like one poster said, if you want to chew on bolts or something to that extent buy an old bushy. I had one. Gave it up for a DPMS. I live on a ranch and the thing has never let me down. I have an AP4 that amazes me with the with my shot patterns with a 16" barrel. I have too many hogs at the place to give up. I trust my life with this rifle and until it let's me down and I will continue to do so. Save some money and buy a good rifle from a company that supports our troops and performs further than my expectactions!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/29/2007 9:33:44 PM EDT
[#40]
+1 Prices in the stratosphere take KAC out of the fight for most of us mere mortals. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 12:03:31 PM EDT
[#41]
That could be any one of several companies that make AR style rifles. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 12:22:22 PM EDT
[#42]
I haven't seen DPMS .308s in the sandbox... don't mean it ain't so. BUT, I have seen oodles of AR-10 [that means ARMALITE .308s for you in Rio Linda] pics being used in the sandbox ON THIS WEBSITE. BTW, Hi guy. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 1:15:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Here are some Canadians with their AR10s in Afghanistan:     They use the Badger Ordnance handguard on theirs. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:16:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Hey Dave,
DMPS does have their 308's in the field. I had to wait a great deal of time to recieve mine due to their shipments to IRAQ. I know that other armories support the troops, however I find it a little disturbing that everytime another manufacure comes up with a rifle and names it any closely to the AR-10 a lawsuite is on their way (nothing against Armalite, maybe they should adjust their prices). My rifle functions flawlessly and maybe some companies are charging too much because they have a trademark. Bushy beat them and could not perfect the weapon with the FAL mags. However, it delays alot of good honest people the right to a good firearm. Mine is about to go out in 15 minutes to regulate the hog population on my ranch. Take care, Aaron |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:35:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Maybe this will make sense, maybe not: What if Ford purchased a small Korean or Chinese truck company who made small boxy SUV's with round lights, soft tops, and rigid front and rear axles, and then imported them all here to the US..... Should Ford be able to advertise, market & sell them under the name "A-Jeep"? Or do you think that might be some sort of problem? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:35:56 PM EDT
[#46]
FAL...it's kinda like the AR, only completely different.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:38:35 PM EDT
[#47]
I know I'm going to get flamed for this but it seems that Colt Kool aid drinkers have nothing on the Armalite Kool aid drinkers.
I had an AR-10 A2 that I replaced the upper with a 10T and the trigger with a JP. The factory 10 round mag would fall out every time the gun fired, and with the 10T upper it was unreasonably heavy, and the accuracy was good, but not spectacular. I eventually sold it and put together a DPMS. Even if the Armalite was under a grand I would still choose the DPMS, and if I were to do it all over I would probably try a Cobb. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:40:48 PM EDT
[#48]
.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:52:56 PM EDT
[#49]
KAC and DPMS ARE the only AR types that work worth a crap IMO if I'm allowed to have opinion that is. I may try one of the new AR10s tho to see if they have there "issues" worked out.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:57:45 PM EDT
[#50]
.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
