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Posted: 6/9/2017 7:10:08 PM EDT
[#1]
I've never personally had issues in PSA's CHF barrels, but it sounds like you may have already tried that?
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Posted: 6/9/2017 7:16:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never personally had issues in PSA's CHF barrels, but it sounds like you may have already tried that? From a little reading, some are recommending nitrided barrels. At minimum chrome lined, as you mentioned. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:25:47 PM EDT
[#3]
I run steel through all sorts of Ar-15s and have no problems. Run hard and fast.
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:26:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I run steel through all sorts of Ar-15s and have no problems. Run hard and fast. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Never had problems running steel through a Delton, PSA or Faxon barrels.
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:31:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the secret? In my limited experience, just chokes after a couple to a mag of rounds. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:44:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Any good quality barrel with a 5.56 chamber will handle steel case ammo just fine. What is most important about good extraction is that the chamber is not rough as it was machined/reamed.
We have seen plenty of crappy rough chambers over the years. As far as what to buy, it just comes down to budget. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 8:44:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
May be more if a extractor issue than a barrel issue. WMD has barrels with NiB extensions if you feel that will help you with cycling issues. I've used BA and Faxon in the past. Who makes WMD barrels? Do they make their own? For this build I'll keep my eye on EE. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 9:16:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly I don't know what will help me. I just happen to have an extra everything except barrel, and lots of steel cased ammo. I've used BA and Faxon in the past. Who makes WMD barrels? Do they make their own? For this build I'll keep my eye on EE. I have always polished the ramps on my barrels. I like to think that helps. Have you upgraded the extractor springs? Could be a cheaper problem solver. I feel like it may be the issue. |
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Posted: 6/9/2017 9:17:23 PM EDT
[#10]
I think you must have had bad luck in the past? What kind of steel? I stay away from Tulammo and stick with Wolf brands.
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Posted: 6/9/2017 10:15:29 PM EDT
[#11]
I have run wolf and now tula with zero issues in numerous barrels.
As an example, I have a bear creek arsenal upper that has a simple m4 parkerized barrel, it's on a bumpfire gun. I have never had a single jam of any sort! I also have other BCA barrels, model 1 sales, PSA, bushmaster and more. I only ever had stuck cases twice in the same barrel (model 1 sales) and it was brass cased mil surp ammo. I ran a chamber brush on a cordless drill and put an o ring around the extractor spring. No problems in about ten years since then, that one is also a bumpfire gun now. I would look for a nitrided barrel with carbine gas for best odds of working right. They call nitride "QPQ" that stands for quench, polish, quench. That's why nitrided surfaces always look very smooth or shiney, so the chamber should be a lot smoother in a nitrided barrel. If I was you I'd look at the various methods of chamber polishing and get an o ring for your extractor and try the barrels you already have. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 8:39:20 AM EDT
[#12]
if I go with the carbine gas, is there a recommended port size? I mean for steel cased ammo?
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:22:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the secret? In my limited experience, just chokes after a couple to a mag of rounds. Bear in mind, steel cased .223 ammo has very different extraction characteristics over a brass case....in a nutshell, steel cases are torn from the chamber, while brass is extracted... both are still under pressure... but the steel cased hasn't shrunk back as fast as a brass case. As silly as it sounds... IMHO steel cased ammo needs a few milliseconds longer in the chamber to allow easier cyclic extraction. I have seen a detailed study some where. ...I will try to find it. Page 9 of 19... http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2016/armament/18293_Chaplin.pdf |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:26:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if I go with the carbine gas, is there a recommended port size? I mean for steel cased ammo? I cant say which barrels have large port sizes from multiple companies. Depending on the barrel length will change the port size. Usually they are between .060-.090 for Car length. To add there's no select port size for steel ammo. Faxon's Big Gunner (11.5) barrel has a larger port (.110). Its a mid-length gas system. This barrel is intended for suppressed fire, but is fine for unsuppressed. With a adj gas block, there's room to tune it. Could help with extraction. I think upgrading the O-ring/extractor spring should be done first. Try that and test the steel with the rifles you have. Since you're looking for a barrel anyways, find a barrel with QPQ finish. Maybe something with a larger port with adj gas block to tune it. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:43:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cant say which barrels have large port sizes from multiple companies. Depending on the barrel length will change the port size. Usually they are between .060-.090 for Car length. To add there's no select port size for steel ammo. Faxon's Big Gunner (11.5) barrel has a larger port (.110). Its a mid-length gas system. This barrel is intended for suppressed fire, but is fine for unsuppressed. I think upgrading the O-ring/extractor spring should be done first. Try that and test the steel with the rifles you have. Since you're looking for a barrel anyways, find a barrel with QPQ finish. Maybe something with a larger port with adj gas block to tune it. All the uppers I have in 556 are factory rifles. They run perfect with brass, and I am leaving them as is. They are my go to rifles and are perfect (his and hers). I have an extra lower and extra upper. The upper is complete except a barrel (I have the gas tube, block, etc). I'd like to use this configuration on the lower that I have, which is NOT registered as an SBR. I have built several 7.62x39 uppers and I (mistakenly) thought the steel cased ammo was the same in all calibers. Since then I have done much more shooting and reading to learn that there is a whole lot of factors in steel 556 that is not in steel 762. I also bought a bunch of steel 556 on sale, so there is that too. I don't have a barrel. I will get a QPQ barrel, I have those for my 7.62x39 and I will do the o-ring in the extractor. The o-ring is so easy and I have one. I suppose I've had issues with rims tearing, and I think all steel cased ammo is the same. I do have Tula, so that is the absolute reason (and I admit it). I'm just looking to optimize. If there is a recommended gas port size, I can with have that opened up a bit and put on an adjustable gas block. If required. The Faxon barrel I am looking at is 14.5 inches, carbine gas, and 0.068" gas port size. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:52:19 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know exactly what you are saying, but I don't think I was clear. All the uppers I have in 556 are factory rifles. They run perfect with brass, and I am leaving them as is. They are my go to rifles and are perfect (his and hers). I have an extra lower and extra upper. The upper is complete except a barrel (I have the gas tube, block, etc). I'd like to use this configuration on the lower that I have, which is NOT registered as an SBR. I have built several 7.62x39 uppers and I (mistakenly) thought the steel cased ammo was the same in all calibers. Since then I have done much more shooting and reading to learn that there is a whole lot of factors in steel 556 that is not in steel 762. I also bought a bunch of steel 556 on sale, so there is that too. I don't have a barrel. I will get a QPQ barrel, I have those for my 7.62x39 and I will do the o-ring in the extractor. The o-ring is so easy and I have one. I suppose I've had issues with rims tearing, and I think all steel cased ammo is the same. I do have Tula, so that is the absolute reason (and I admit it). I'm just looking to optimize. If there is a recommended gas port size, I can with have that opened up a bit and put on an adjustable gas block. If required. The Faxon barrel I am looking at is 14.5 inches, carbine gas, and 0.068" gas port size. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 10:09:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, you have shot steel through the 5.56 rifles you currently have and in those the the rims are tearing in not extracting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know exactly what you are saying, but I don't think I was clear. All the uppers I have in 556 are factory rifles. They run perfect with brass, and I am leaving them as is. They are my go to rifles and are perfect (his and hers). I have an extra lower and extra upper. The upper is complete except a barrel (I have the gas tube, block, etc). I'd like to use this configuration on the lower that I have, which is NOT registered as an SBR. I have built several 7.62x39 uppers and I (mistakenly) thought the steel cased ammo was the same in all calibers. Since then I have done much more shooting and reading to learn that there is a whole lot of factors in steel 556 that is not in steel 762. I also bought a bunch of steel 556 on sale, so there is that too. I don't have a barrel. I will get a QPQ barrel, I have those for my 7.62x39 and I will do the o-ring in the extractor. The o-ring is so easy and I have one. I suppose I've had issues with rims tearing, and I think all steel cased ammo is the same. I do have Tula, so that is the absolute reason (and I admit it). I'm just looking to optimize. If there is a recommended gas port size, I can with have that opened up a bit and put on an adjustable gas block. If required. The Faxon barrel I am looking at is 14.5 inches, carbine gas, and 0.068" gas port size. Thinking about it more, with a rim on a casing is tearing than the extractor has enough force to do it's job. And when you said after a mag +/- worth of steel, is when you start to have issues. It very well may be the lacquer finish. I think that may be the issue. I mean you have no issue with brass tearing or cycling. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 10:38:03 AM EDT
[#18]
You are correct. Brass is 100%. The rifles are factory Colts with the SOCOM barrels. Both have the same issue with tearing rims. On a clean gun, even the first shot sheared the rim. Sometimes after 5 rounds.
To be clear, I'm not talking about those rifles. In all other regards they are 100%. I don't want to mess with them. Edit. The other rifles I wrote about have been sold. I could go a mag and then some. Nothing really consistent. Second edit. Do you think this is because I'm using Tula instead of Wolf? |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 10:44:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are correct. Brass is 100%. The rifles are factory Colts with the SOCOM barrels. Both have the same issue with tearing rims. On a clean gun, even the first shot sheared the rim. Sometimes after 5 rounds. To be clear, I'm not talking about those rifles. In all other regards they are 100%. I don't want to mess with them. So the old Tula used lacquer. The newer stuff supposedly uses polymer now. I know wolf uses polymer, so you may want to try that brand. If you still are gonna use steel case, mind as well expect this issue as a norm..Faxon is good to their customers. I'm sure they have no problem with expanding a gas port for you if you so choose. Maybe a larger port/more gas will help push out those casings. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 11:26:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No sir, have not. My ARs in 556 are all factory. I know that is odd since I've built 545 and 762x39 uppers. From a little reading, some are recommending nitrided barrels. At minimum chrome lined, as you mentioned. I'd only recommend a chromed chamber for steel. I shoot A LOT of steel case ammo through BCM, Colt and DD barrels without any issues. I did have one case stick in an old Colt 6520, but that was about 6,000rds ago. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 11:28:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the secret? In my limited experience, just chokes after a couple to a mag of rounds. Between this morning, yesterday and last weekend I've fired close to 1200rds of Wolf Classic 55gr steel case through a Colt and FN Scar. Zero problems / no cleaning. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 12:14:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Now you guys are just taunting me with your successes.
I know I'll get it nitrided or chromed. My goal is to have his rifle work 100% (obviously), however baring that I want to start with the greatest possibility of success. That's all. What barrel should I get? I don't need a sub MOA, something adequate but with good extraction properties. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 12:34:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know I'll get it |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 12:50:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never had problems running steel through a Delton, PSA or Faxon barrels. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 12:55:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a Del-Ton middie that I bought way back in 06 or 07 for the sole purpose of shooting steel cased ammo. It has been 100% reliable, even when using brass cased. It turns out it's pretty dang accurate. I'm thinking of scoping it and promote it from brass blaster to serious shooter. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 2:09:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You must be a low volume shooter if its 10 years old, and still giving good groups? |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 2:12:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never had problems running steel through a Delton, PSA or Faxon barrels. Edit: spelling. Fat fingered IMO they are the best of the budget blasters by far. That gun just runs. As others have said they are surprisingly accurate. |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 2:50:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Here try this.
@RogueNathan I'm sure Faxon can answer / help. . |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 5:43:06 PM EDT
[#29]
The problem is that you never know with a new bbl. I have 2 Model 1 Sales 1 in 7 twist chrome lined chamber and bore bbls (I use in full auto firing). 1 has NO problems with steel cased ammo (11.5" bbl). 1 has failures to extract factory steel cased ammo (20" bbl). Both have upgraded extractor systems with O-rings and chambers cleaned with a chamber brush after each outing. Both are flawless with brass cased ammo.
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:13:13 PM EDT
[#30]
This thread made me head back to the range (second trip today). Another 170rds of Wolf thru a 14.5" BCM.
Zero issues. I'll try to remember to upload pics when I get on my laptop (using my phone now). |
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Posted: 6/10/2017 9:59:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Buy a bear creek arsenal m4 barrel for $65~ direct or from classic firearms. If it doesn't work you aren't out much. I have 3 of those barrels (m4, 1/9, 223 wylde, parkerized) that have actually never had a single stoppage and I run steel almost exclusively. I have other bca barrels in SS and parked, in 10.5, 7.5 and 16". All run tula all day long.
If you still have problems, I've hear heavier buffers and heavier recoil springs can help. Normally its an over gas issue, but that's odd because steelis generally underpowered. When you say you bought a bunch of steel and several guns wouldn't function with it.... I'm wandering if you got one bad lot of ammo? Have you gone out and bought fresh tula and wolf locally? I buy tula at Wal mart, never a problem. Maybe you got defective ammo. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 6:35:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy a bear creek arsenal m4 barrel for $65~ direct or from classic firearms. If it doesn't work you aren't out much. I have 3 of those barrels (m4, 1/9, 223 wylde, parkerized) that have actually never had a single stoppage and I run steel almost exclusively. I have other bca barrels in SS and parked, in 10.5, 7.5 and 16". All run tula all day long. If you still have problems, I've hear heavier buffers and heavier recoil springs can help. Normally its an over gas issue, but that's odd because steelis generally underpowered. When you say you bought a bunch of steel and several guns wouldn't function with it.... I'm wandering if you got one bad lot of ammo? Have you gone out and bought fresh tula and wolf locally? I buy tula at Wal mart, never a problem. Maybe you got defective ammo. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 6:35:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread made me head back to the range (second trip today). Another 170rds of Wolf thru a 14.5" BCM. Zero issues. I'll try to remember to upload pics when I get on my laptop (using my phone now). |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 11:15:32 AM EDT
[#34]
I've run thousands of rounds at a time suppressed through my Daniel Defense. It's a woodchipper. No issues.
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Posted: 6/11/2017 11:45:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've run thousands of rounds at a time suppressed through my Daniel Defense. It's a woodchipper. No issues. 
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Posted: 6/11/2017 3:09:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I literally hate you people for this. 
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Posted: 6/11/2017 3:18:01 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 6/11/2017 3:19:05 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 6/11/2017 4:46:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy good parts...get good results. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 5:25:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd consider 2 Colt 6920 SOCOM rebuilt by specialized armament to be at least decent ... I've got factory Colt, BCM, DPMS, Armalite, PSA, and Del-ton uppers, on home assembled Aero and Anderson lowers that all run trouble free on steel case ammo. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 5:28:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Get them running on auto? That's my end goal.
I'll buy a barrel this week or next. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 7:47:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well if they choke on steel case, I'd consider otherwise. I've got factory Colt, BCM, that all run trouble free on steel case ammo. Auto or not...they should run or something is amiss. |
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Posted: 6/11/2017 9:54:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the secret? In my limited experience, just chokes after a couple to a mag of rounds. What brands of steel cased have you tried? I see you bought a bunch of Tula, is that your only source? If so you might have a bad batch of ammo. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 9:49:37 AM EDT
[#44]
A retired marine / active duty firefighter I shoot with has occasional problems with Tula 9mm in his Glock 19. I've avoided Tula, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if all the Russian ammo is being manufactured by a couple of firms. I have always bought Wolf, but have read Tula was once one of their suppliers. (Wolf is a distributor not a manufacturer - someone correct me if this is not accurate info).
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:12:43 AM EDT
[#45]
buy a DILLON XL650, bulk LC brass, bulk hornady bullets
steel cased ammo is shit . |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 10:13:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I have a spare everything except a barrel. I want to use it as a truck gun, beat it up, and (most importantly) shoot cheap steel cased ammo. I don't care if it doesn't completely cycle and feed a new round (I can work on that). I need it to extract. Any particular barrel you all recommend that will be best in helping to extract steel cased ammo? My experience is that it gets stuck and the extractor rips a small divot from the rim when the steel casing gets stuck. Yes, I have a lot of steel cased ammo. I do NOT run steel in my nice ARs. At this point I don't run steel in any AR since it doesn't run well with anything I own. The only additional cost for me is a barrel. The key for steel cased is the timing of the weapon system. Generally speaking, you will get much better results from Mid and then Rifle length than gas. We run it all the time through our barrels and have not seen issues. Likewise, many customers here run it without trouble. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 2:56:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
buy a DILLON XL650, bulk LC brass, bulk hornady bullets steel cased ammo is shit . |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 4:50:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The key for steel cased is the timing of the weapon system. Generally speaking, you will get much better results from Mid and then Rifle length than gas. We run it all the time through our barrels and have not seen issues. Likewise, many customers here run it without trouble. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 7:24:00 PM EDT
[#49]
I'm a systematic guy. So far the first round feeds perfectly into a rifle. Then the rim shears. That's where I am. Once I get great extraction then the gas tuning via gas block, or buffer, etc start to have. I'm still stuck at the beginning.
I bought a POF with their E2 extraction chamber. Supposedly a cousin to the fluted chamber of HK (and others). Supposedly helped with extraction. Choke. I do agree, it could be this batch of ammo as well. |
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Posted: 6/12/2017 7:33:28 PM EDT
[#50]
As pointed out by Faxon, successful cycling of steel is seems to be in the timing primarily. I have a PSA SS mid length and it cycles Wolf, Silver Bear, and Hornady Steel Match just fine. It ejects steel at 4 o'clock.
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