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Posted: 9/7/2005 5:57:09 AM EDT
[#1]
FWIW, I really like my Lilja.
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Posted: 9/7/2005 6:00:11 AM EDT
[#2]
heh... your in search of pretty much the same thing i am...
however i'm going to try to help you get the barrel you want. You say you are getting this barrel for a RECCE build? What does a RECCE mean to you? Do you want a VERY accurate subMOA gun.... do you want a barrel that can take more abuse than normal? (longer life).... At what ranges will you be shooting your rifle... what optic are you going to place on the weapon system? after doing research up the wazzo... i find that optics and barrels are hand and hand on the AR system.... usally the optics dictate how much accuracy you want... maybe you just want to own anything from 0-200m.... or maybe you want to just own 75m-600m... its your call... --- also maybe think about what is practical... do you really need an AR that can fire head shots at 500m? Maybe for a fun gun.... but for more of a practical sense... it seems that most professionals that go with an AR need a small, light, reliable and carefree semi-auto system... accuarcy is important... but not 100% required (for most applications)... anyways... as a sum up... don't get lossed in wondering which barrel/option you want... figure out what you want to do with your gun... then design the barrel/optics/accessories... around that point... good day! and let me know what your thinking! |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 6:15:33 AM EDT
[#3]
No flame here, just sharing some observations: Shooting long range with a carbine is very challenging, which to me, is fun. I shoot my RECCE at 600yds a few times a year and I like that alot. With me behind it, it is a 1.5-2MOA rifle with me laying prone supported with a bipod only (wind is a HUGE factor on light weight bullets, which you don't see as much at shorter distances). While not a head shot by any means, it is pretty much MO-MAN. Good enough for me. For real operators, the mission defines the gear, not the way stuff goes on around here. If the mission requires a precision carbine to support ops, the RECCE concept has its place. I'm having trouble with the concept of any one gun being mission capable from CQB to 600yds+. I don't think that particular rifle exists. YMMV. Added a pic (sorry, it's huge): 
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Posted: 9/7/2005 6:24:05 AM EDT
[#4]
no offense taken, thats why i asked exactly what a RECCE meant to him... but 0-600m gun? something like this:
 
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Posted: 9/7/2005 6:50:25 AM EDT
[#5]
jar3ds:
I envision my RECCE build as being the ultimate GP rifle. A rifle that has the ability to be utlized from 0-500 m, but with significantly more precision. As for optics, it appears that the S&B Short Dot would be suitable for such an application. Or is this asking too much? Since this will NOT be a full auto firearm all three barrels should be able to withstand protracted semi-auto fire. From what I understand, Denny's barrel was meant to take the abuse encountered with full auto fire, but being a Rock Creek barrel I imagine accuracy will be decent. I totally understand your statement about the mission driving the setup of the rifle, but like I stated above, I'm looking to put together a very flexible GP rifle, albeit somewhat specialized at the same time, no? In addition I would like to have a robust and reliable system, which can be done as evidenced by MSTN's builds which are being used by real-deal, HSLD guys. I'm not a military type, just an AR enthusiast that happens to now have the extra funds necessary to explore a more serious build.
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Posted: 9/7/2005 7:56:50 AM EDT
[#6]
get them all!
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Posted: 9/7/2005 8:11:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Ah the wonderful Black Rifle Sickness! I too have this and also have been looking for the ultimate GP rifle. I tend to agree with Mongo in that I have yet to find one out there and dont think it exists. I just completed a build that is Recce'ish and it is sweet from 0-300 yds. At 200 I avrg a 1.5 moa consistantly with it but it quickly drops of after that. I used one of the Giffman buy barrels but have now been looking toward the "Operator" as a possible replacement or future build. As far as long range goes, I bought an upper from ADCO a ways back and that thing is a tac driver all the way out to 600yds. as far as CQB in a situation where you are being attacked by zombies from all sides, I think it would still remain the shiznit but im always afraid of over heating SS barrels, I mean you spend the money on a uber accurate barrel and you want it to stay that way for a long time. Just my .02
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Posted: 9/7/2005 8:15:48 AM EDT
[#8]
I used a Dennys Mid length. A specter block and a rifle length FF handguard. I dont have any Irons but it shoots 1 to 3 MOA with wolf (Flyers Disclaimer). I guess without the front block/sight it only qualifys as a plain Middy.
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:11:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Military usage means RECCE is reconnaissance, which to me would mean a short barrel. You're sneaking and peeking, and do not normally want to do any shooting. Light weight, and handy would be a good pick. Then again, here, RECCE may mean something else!
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:27:21 AM EDT
[#10]
now i don't have much experience with the S&B but i don't think its precise enough to deliever sort of what your thinking... i'd say a ta11 or ta31 would allow you to make 'crosshair' type shots at 500m... yet still be fast at close quarters.... but really... if you want accurate... your going to need a vari-magnifiied optic... i would really ask yourself... is:
what is significantly more precision? try to quantify this... is it 2moa @ 500m? etc... this will determine weight of barrel, length, profile, and material. |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 4:53:52 PM EDT
[#11]
My question is what barrel length? If you go to short and pay premium for a good barrel that seems a waste of money. Too long and youve just ruined the whole Idea!
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Posted: 9/7/2005 6:19:40 PM EDT
[#12]
I used ADCO's 16" SPR contour barrel with midlength gas and had Steve flute it between the barrel nut and gas block. It is uses a WOA blank with a Wylde chamber. It is a tack driver.
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:36:11 PM EDT
[#13]
i have dennys recon barrel and couldnt have asked for better.
great handling and great accuracy |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:44:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Noveske Afghan with a Short Dot.
If you want a rifle for 0-600 meters, this is it. The Short Dot has scored kills to 800 meters. |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:45:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Hmm, I gotta think about this more... |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:46:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the information. |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 9:55:36 PM EDT
[#17]
The Noveske 16.1" Recon barrel is at the top of my list as of now because the supply of Lilja barrels are getting low.
Noveske Rifleworks barrel webpage link |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 10:00:59 PM EDT
[#18]
this is definately on my list as well along with the pac-nor bbl. steve@adco offers
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Posted: 9/7/2005 11:46:26 PM EDT
[#19]
No offense, but I think you misunderstand what the short dot is. Its a 1-4x FFP variable. Its like an aimpoint when you have the dot on and the mag set to 1x, and like an ACOG at 4x, but with mil marks instead of BDC stadia lines. You can use it in 4x with the dot on or off. |
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Posted: 9/8/2005 12:17:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Combat_Jack: Seems like you and I are thinking along the same lines based on your posts.
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Posted: 9/8/2005 12:29:45 AM EDT
[#21]
16" Noveske RECON with a 12" LaRue rail, M93 or SOPMOD stock, MIAD, CMC trigger, Tangodown VFG, Surefire M962,Troy flip sights and a Short Dot in a LaRue mount. My plan for ONE AR. I don't need three--I'm selling the ones I have now to fund this one without dipping into my AI fund This one should handle everything I need to do from the muzzle to 600m, if I can learn to dope wind (I'd better get good at it!). Heavy beotch though, probably 11 pounds or more fully dressed.Gonna put it all together when I go home for the holidays. |
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Posted: 9/8/2005 8:38:12 AM EDT
[#22]
All your original choices are good.
A couple of thoughts: WOA barrels (whether Wilson's or Douglaus) simple kick ass. As a barrel snob and accuracy freak, Ive had to eat a lot of my words on 'cheap' barrels. Dont underestimate the accuracy potential of either - you'll end up looking stupid! The more AR variants I build for me the more Ive begun to appreciate light weight rifles. Unfortunitely, light weight and accuracy havent generally gone hand in hand. Enter ABS. I weighted an 18" SPR contoured barrel the other day and it was 8 or 9 oz lighter (postal scale) than a 16 inch Kreiger Recce. Accuracy is on par with the krieger (so's the price unfortunitely). Since the barrel starts as Mike Rock blank its hard to go wrong here. Just another option to help muddy the water. Its pretty easy to end up with a FF'd barreled upper and optics for very close to naked gun weights. Of course if your not carrying it - who cares! Good luck! |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 8:33:30 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 9/9/2005 10:45:33 AM EDT
[#24]
I ended up getting a Noveske Recon barrel.
Looks good. Can't wait to try it out at the range. Except I lost the Gas tube roll pin. Otherwise its done. After I get it I'll post pics and stats. |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 11:16:45 AM EDT
[#25]
WE HAVE BOTH NOVESKI 1X7" RECON 16" (MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM) AND LILJA 1X8" RECCE "MOD 1" (SAME AS NAVY RECCE VERSION, BUT MID-LENGTH GAS SYSTEM) 16" BARRELS IN STOCK, K-G COATED FLAT BLACK, WITH FITTED BOLTS.
AND LARUE FORENDS. AND LARUE GAS BLOCKS. AND PRI GAS BUSTERS. AND LES BAER CUSTOM PLUS DAN YOUNG'S NEWEST NAT'L MATCH BOLT CARRIERS. AND MORE DIFFERENT MUZZLE DEVICES THAN ANYONE NEEDS TO STOCK. WHEN I GET HOME THIS WEEKEND, I'LL WEIGH BOTH BARRELS. WES GRANT BARREL SNOB M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 11:33:32 AM EDT
[#26]
I vote for the Krieger "recce" barrels that JTAC is selling. The one I have can SHOOT!  
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Posted: 9/9/2005 12:56:58 PM EDT
[#27]
Would the Noveske 14.5" barrel considered be too short for the RECCE?
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Posted: 9/9/2005 1:08:48 PM EDT
[#28]
I dunno...Denny's is a Mike Rock with Cr lining..including chamber...
I would not want to miss out on this combo... But given your other choices...I don't see how you could go wrong on any of them- really... imo |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 1:17:49 PM EDT
[#29]
14.5 is the best length for a Recce, IMO. |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 5:00:00 PM EDT
[#30]
THANKS! Denny's OPERATOR BARREL is weighing in "At 2.5 lbs including A2 front sight, barrel nut and F/H." |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 5:03:26 PM EDT
[#31]
short dots 1.1-4x. mine is sitting on a M4 upper until my Afghan arrives.  "The S&B 1.1-4X CQB is flat out the absolute best tactical optic available, bar none. Period." -Pat Rogers |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 5:07:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Now, that is the kind of accuracy I'm looking for!
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Posted: 9/9/2005 6:01:05 PM EDT
[#33]
i think the S&B 1.1-4X CQB would do quite well with the larue SPR-E model.. am i wrong?
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Posted: 9/9/2005 6:22:48 PM EDT
[#34]
SPR or SPR-E. depending on your cheekweld, stock position and size. the reg SPR gives me perfect eye relief. |
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Posted: 9/9/2005 10:12:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Wheres the best place to get a S&B short dot? Whats the going price?
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Posted: 9/9/2005 11:14:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Premier Reticles sells them... i think they want 1800. |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 10:22:48 AM EDT
[#37]
And that is a good price as I was quoted an LE/Active Duty Military price of $1850. |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 10:30:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Hmmmm.... Don't know what civvies will have to pay. |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 10:44:23 AM EDT
[#39]
I think Premier Reticles site is down I cant get anything to come up.
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Posted: 9/10/2005 11:58:41 AM EDT
[#40]
Found this thread late but FWIW, my Lilja is the most accurate barrel that I have ever used. I am eyeing a JN 14.5" AFGHAN barrel for my next project.
BTW Wes, did you get my e-mail? |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 12:12:14 PM EDT
[#41]
had an excellent buying experiance with Matt Garrett, would highly recommend buying from him. [email protected] he offers Mil / Leo discount. |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 5:50:19 PM EDT
[#42]
BEEN ON THE ROAD. BEHIND ON EMAILS, BUT CATCHING UP.
LILJA 35.5 OZ NOVESKI 37.8 OZ WES |
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Posted: 9/10/2005 9:01:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Thanks, Wes!
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Posted: 9/10/2005 11:49:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Now THATS kick ass. |
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Posted: 9/11/2005 12:10:11 PM EDT
[#45]
You ain't kidding Lumpy! Week before last she was ringing steel out to 600yds every time I pulled the trigger (before the wind woke up).... if only it had a Leitner-Wise piston.  |
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Posted: 9/11/2005 2:58:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Just counting days for when the Noveske CL recon barrels get made
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Posted: 9/11/2005 8:01:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Between a 16.5" Recce Lilja barrel, 20" fluted Krieger barrel, 18" Douglass SPR barrel and a 16" MRP match barrel, the Lilja has been the best shooting. The MRP barrel is still very new and may need to be shot more to really tell, but so far the Lilja is clearly and consistently the best shooting barrel we have.
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Posted: 9/12/2005 6:24:12 AM EDT
[#48]
keep us posted on the MRP barrel's progress
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Posted: 9/25/2005 7:00:07 PM EDT
[#49]
A potentially expensive tag
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Posted: 9/25/2005 8:59:40 PM EDT
[#50]
My 16" SS 1/7 LMT MRP barrel is unreal, .4" (or less) groups with 75 gr TAP, .5" (or less) with 55 grain Ballistic Silvertips, and .8" with Q3131A all at 100 yards, all in the same day. Now this was under ideal conditions, bag rear, bipod front, no wind, Nightforce scope, and I was having a pretty good day. The BST and TAP rounds would do it even with a 10 round group, the Q3131A a slight flier about every 4-7 rounds. The benchrest guys were very impressed by this "gas" gun. |
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