For those that have used them, how did you like them?  Is there any problem using them with a receiver extension for a single point sling?  In general, is it a good stock or do you feel collapsibles offer more advantages?

btt

The Sully was good during the AWB, now I would go with one of the many collapsibles(LMT,VLTOR, MAGPUL.They do everything the Sully does and more.(adjustable legnth, better cheek weld, storage,sling mount options)

Quoted: The Sully was good during the AWB, now I would go with one of the many collapsibles(LMT,VLTOR, MAGPUL.They do everything the Sully does and more.(adjustable legnth, better cheek weld, storage,sling mount options)

First of all, thanks for your response.  I just recently heard about the Sully -- the thing that attracted me to it was its simplicity.  I'm not doubting that a collapsible isn't more verstaile, but when I examine my needs, I'm not sure I need all the versatility offered.  But I would like to pose some follow-up questions to your response:

Adjustable Length:  Not sure that's a big issue to me.  I'm not an operator, do not keep a truck gun, do not wear body armor.  But after reading some of Pat Rogers' stuff, I can see how my A2 stock is pretty long and I could see how it could be a problem if taking a carbine course or in a true, no-shit CQB scenario.  The shorter stock intuitively seems a better solution than the A2 so I'd like to go shorter, my only issue is A1, Sully (shorter yet) or collapsible.

Better Cheek Weld:  how do all collapsibles provide a better cheek weld?  From what I can see, the Magpul provides a nice, wide comb that doesn't change as the stock is collapsed or extended, so between a LMT, VLTOR and Magpul, the Magpul would seem the best in this regard.  But it seems to me the LMT and VLTOR would be lacking since cheek weld can change from the tube to the stock depending upon whether or not it's extended or collapsed (I always try to shoot NTCH).  In that light, MAGPUL and Sully get good marks, VLTOR and LMT get poorer marks.  BTW, I have a beard if that matters -- it just looks like a LMT or VLTOR would catch facial hair and it would be a pain.

Storage:  I didn't look, but I guess from what you're syaing, there's no trap door with the Sully.  LMT and VLTOR provide side storage for batteries, but there's no provision for a field cleaning kit, correct?

Sling Options:  This may be the biggest issue.  Sully attachment point looks like a std A2 which would allow std carry strap or a wrap-around 3-point (Specter-type).  Do you know if the Sully allows a receiver-mounted single-point type extension?  I've seen those mounts used with both a single-point mode and also an abbreviated 3-point mode where the connection goes from FSB back to the receiver instead of all the way back to the buttstock.  That setup seems to be a decent compromise between the speed and mobility of the single-point and the steadiness/security of the 3-point.

Quoted: Better Cheek Weld:  how do all collapsibles provide a better cheek weld?  From what I can see, the Magpul provides a nice, wide comb that doesn't change as the stock is collapsed or extended, so between a LMT, VLTOR and Magpul, the Magpul would seem the best in this regard.  But it seems to me the LMT and VLTOR would be lacking since cheek weld can change from the tube to the stock depending upon whether or not it's extended or collapsed (I always try to shoot NTCH).  In that light, MAGPUL and Sully get good marks, VLTOR and LMT get poorer marks.  BTW, I have a beard if that matters -- it just looks like a LMT or VLTOR would catch facial hair and it would be a pain. Storage:  I didn't look, but I guess from what you're syaing, there's no trap door with the Sully.  LMT and VLTOR provide side storage for batteries, but there's no provision for a field cleaning kit, correct? Sling Options:  This may be the biggest issue.  Sully attachment point looks like a std A2 which would allow std carry strap or a wrap-around 3-point (Specter-type).  Do you know if the Sully allows a receiver-mounted single-point type extension?  I've seen those mounts used with both a single-point mode and also an abbreviated 3-point mode where the connection goes from FSB back to the receiver instead of all the way back to the buttstock.  That setup seems to be a decent compromise between the speed and mobility of the single-point and the steadiness/security of the 3-point.

My answers are specific to my case. I was hoping Forest would jump in here because he uses a Sully.

Better Cheek Weld: I prefer the Sully to the M4 and CAR types. I also shoot NTCH and find the Sully to be the perfect length with the short buttplate. I also think it places my eye in a better position which is important to me because I wear bifocals.

Storage: None. It is solid which to me is not a bad thing. It feels more balanced with my carbine. YMMV

Sling Options: Sully (Greg Sullivan) believes in the 3-point sling. To quote him (from a thread here):

3-Point Slings give versatility, and offer at least 10 uses that come to mind at the moment. Single Point Slings are very limited. 2-Point slings are extremely limited, but are better than no sling at all. In simplest words, a shoulder weapon without a sling is like a handgun without a holster.

You don't have to believe him but it is his stock and probably reflects his thinking. That being said, I see no reason a fixed stock single point attachment could not be used.

With 16" carbines, I run Sully stocks by choice; they are rock solid.  I use Daniel Defense single point sling adapters with both Sully stocks and collapsible stocks.  

I previously always used the Wilderness Products single point Giles slings and still like them when not wearing armor, but with armor, the Blue Force Gear "BICS" slings are the best I have used.  The VTAC two point slings are also great.

The Sully is a good KISS stock.
I prefer the LMT SOPMOD for myself.
1.Longer than other collaspables
2.Smooth surface, doesn't pull facial hair like VLTOR
3. I can extend it out for prone shooting(w/ magnified optics)
4. I  can collapse it for NTCH style shooting.At the first notch, it's about the same length as the
   Sully.
5. Rubber, no slip pad
6. The shape of the LMT/VLTOR gives your cheek more support/area (better cheek weld)
7. Small Storage Tubes, I keep batteries and C3 paper work in mine.
8. More Sling mounting solutions.I can use a number of single point or three point sling mounting
   attachments/postions(too many to discuss)

I" think" you could use an A2 single point sling mount made by Daniel Defense.

If I was still affected by the AWB, I would use a Sully.
See this for pics and better explainations
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=188153

Thanx everyone for your inputs.

Jmart, I have several Sully stocks, I prefer them over collapsible. I think the biggest advantage is that it is a weighted stock. Better rifle and carbine balance, that makes handling better.  4weelin

Sully is a cop, and runs his on a dissipator with an A2 upper. Its a simple, and solid carbine for entry work. Nothing to rattle or move, and a solid and consistent cheek weld.

Quoted: Sully is a cop, and runs his on a dissipator with an A2 upper. Its a simple, and solid carbine for entry work. Nothing to rattle or move, and a solid and consistent cheek weld.

I'm not sure it's a dissapator, does the dissy use a carbine or rifle length gas system?? IIRC Sully said he uses carbine length gas systems.

I played around a little bit durringa break in a class with his gun. I like it a lot. I still prefer the collapsable stock, but if I wanted a fixed length stock for a rifle, the Sully stock would be it. I've never felt a rifle that balanced as well as the one he had at that class. It is a thing of beauty.

ETA: Maybe he'll ppo in here, I know he has two clases he's giving this weekend(that I should be taking, but noooo I can't, I'm stuck at work, well it didn;t help I couldn't get the money together either but still)

Quoted: The Sully Stock is solid urethane through out.  This was done on purpose, as I wanted a stock that was tough enough to with stand all the rigors that we can put them through.  I am a firm believer in fixed stock.  Collapsables and adjustables are available.  Stocks are really a matter of personal preference.  I prefer fixed for the basic reasons of a better cheek weld where collapsables are a little lower as you will be directly on the receiver extension, fixed stocks will never collapse when firing or a sling rubs against, they don't pull moustache hairs, and don't need to be adjusted under rapid deployment situations like coming out of a police cruiser.  There are no storage compartments, this was done for strength, as well as our thinking is that the standard CAR/M4 style don't have storage so cleaning gear is carried elsewhere, and I believe that if you are going to have proper cleaning gear that it starts with a quality 1-piece cleaning rod.     We did build them with a standard A1/A2 style sling mount, which works well with a standard 2pt sling or a tac sling.  I have used the GG&G and GRSC single point mounts with our stock and it works well.   I run several rifles at work.  My favorite is a light weight 16" Dissipator style that is on an A1 upper receiver, I am not an A2 fan as I do not adjust my sights once they are zeroed.  Many people that attend our training courses get to try out one of my rifles and many like the feel and balance, of which also works the same on M4 style guns that sport our stock as well.  For those that like our stocks, just wait until you see what we are working on now!!! CY6, Greg Sullivan "Sully" Chief Instructor TheDefensiveEdge.com

Pics?

Quoted: Here is a link to a picture of one of our rifles: Sully Rifle Picture I will post more soon, especially once someone helps me figure out how to post pictures, as if you you haven't figured it out by now I am computer challenged. CY6, Greg Sullivan "Sully" Chief Instructor TheDefensiveEdge.com

Sully,

Public Service Announcement ~ Quick primer on "How-to" post pictures

Courtesy of hepcat85.

Thanks for the pictures.

Justin

Pic of Sully's Gun