MARCH - 13,  2005

A Fellow AR15.com Member Needs a  -  EAGLE ARMS PREBAN   or a BUSHMASTER PREBAN  Lower Receiver  .  Has to have left the factory as a Complete Rifle Pre Sept 13 1994 .. If you have one please help Him Out ..  

here is his Post - NYPatriot    - Please contact him  if you can help him out

WTB: Verified Bushmaster or Eagle Arms Pre Ban Lower Receiver - click on link below

WTB Preban lower

Thank You in Advance

Eagle20
Dennis

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Hi All

I have been wondering why there is not alot more  - Colt  or  Bushmaster  Preban Lowers For sale on the EE Board  and at a reasonable Price ?  

Reasonable being $375.00 To $450.00 .. or less

There are SGW Olympic Arms , Essential Arms , DPMS preban receivers for  sale .. but not enough Colts or Bushmasters .  

There are so many free states out there that could help us members who are stuck in ban states .. In alot of cases we are living here or there ( Ban states ) not  by choice, but by necessity , because that is were the job is .. I am not aksing anybody to feel sorry for us members that are in the banned states , all i am asking is to help make us feel like were part of the free states , being able to  build a  Colt  or Bushmaster preban  rifle that is legal were we live !

So Come on Free State Memebers - Help us frustrated Memebers who are Stuck !!! Post Your Colt and Bushmaster Receivers on the  EE Board !!

Thanks For Your Time

Eagle20

[email protected]


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JAN  22,  2005

Good After Noon

I did not start this post to Insult or to piss anybody off or to  have the posting flamed because, i am Speaking for all of us who do have to live in a Banned state.

My Intention was to try to Strike up some enthuisiam to Help out AR15 Team Members and  AR15 members  and  guests that Live and Work in States  that are still under a Ban  ,  to be able to enjoy and feel the excitement  that those of you who do live in free states are enjoying.. such as converting your Post ban rifle into what it was intended to look like  with  - " those evils features"  . To be able to buy  a Bushmaster , Colt , RRA, Olympic Arms, Ect. - new production guns that have all  "those  evil features " on them .. To be able to buy a new production  stripped or complete lowers and build your own  "Evil Looking Gun " .  My thought  was that if any of you had a Colt or Bushmaster lower that you could sell that it would be nice to post them on the EE Board , for the Banned states.

As far as trying to change the state laws , I am Sure that of those who do live in banned states ,we  have gone to the polls and have  Voted against  those Political issues , but have been out  voted because of the political clout that rules some of the banned states .  There is one thing to keep in mind no matter what state you live in..today you could be a free state but tommorow  the next day , next month or next year your state leaders and laws could change and you could be in the same situation as we are in .- Being a Banned State .

Moving to another state - i would Love to - BUT -  i have to live here .. my wife , son and daughter live here ..my job is here  - for the last 20 years,  responsibilites  to my family are here ..  It has Nothing to do with - Liking it here or  < they just can't be bothered enough to move > . This is my life at the moment  and this is were I have to be to work and live, and it is not easy .. we all know that ..

I appreciate all the  Pros and Cons that have been posted .. i just don't want it to become an angry or frustating situation for  anyone .. so please post your comments and thoughts accordingly !

Thank You

Eagle20

[email protected]

deleted

to not offend anyone.

I have a Bushmaster complete lower with RRA M4 stock on it.  Excellent plus condition.  Verifiable  preban,  serial number LO3968x.   Originally came out of the facotry as a preban 20" heavy barrel.  It was unfired until 3 years ago.  300 rounds through it.  Email and pics sent.  Let me know if you're interested.
Jeff

What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe.
Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby.

email sent

Quoted: What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe. Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby.

+1

Quoted: Quoted: What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe. Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby. +1

Well, I would have tried to say it more gently, but in essence the above comments are accurate.

As much as I value all of our members, I don't see myself as being obligated to provide affordable ARs to those who choose to live in states that are controlled by the idiots of the world. You don't like NYs gun laws?  MOVE.dammit.

I left my home state of Massachusetts many years ago, and came to Georgia, precisely because I didn't like the way Mass. was heading---and not just about gun laws. High taxes, crooked pols, and increasingly snotty people, all played a part.  The company I worked for offered me a choice of San Fransisco, Chicago or Atlanta, and that's where government's attitude about firearms ownership did start to play a part---and it's a big part of why I chose Georgia.

More recently, as Atlanta has gotten more like the other  big cities, with horrible traffic, low life people, and increasingly higher taxes, I again got the hell out; and moved up to the Northwest part of the state, where you can buy a decent house for under 100k, the people you pass in the supermarket still smile at you and say "good morning", and good deer hunting is 15 minutes away

So if you want an affordable AR, get the hell out of that cesspool you live in!


(Edited to Add)Besides, even if I decided to sell my preban Colt, you couldn't afford it; since it's a class 3d SP1, and last time I looked, they were starting about $9k

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe. Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby. +1 You don't like NYs gun laws?

Or, start lobbying in your state for repeal of those laws. Run for political office and introduce proper legislation yourself. Get your fellow NY'ers on board or it'll only get worse.

I respect both sides of this issue, but look at this scenario:

You have a pre '94 Colt or Bushmaster complete rifle that you paid alot for in the dark days.  Someone from a commie state offers you, in an even trade or a trade plus a little $, a complete post '94 Colt or Bushmater lower receiver for your pre'94 Colt or Bushmaster receiver, all parts being identical, except the one offered to you is NEW and the one you own has some use on it AND you could be up, say $100 or so in the trade.

What have you lost??????  You have, in essence, changed the serial number on your rifle.  That's it!!!!

This pre '94/post '94 BS means nothing to those of us in the free states.  If the mythical "new ban" occurs, everything from the date of the "new ban" - back will be grandfathered, so the 1994 cutoff means nothing, so there is no reason to hoard pre '94 receivers.  

Unless your rifle has some sentimental or collector value, a lower receiver swap is a win-win for both sides, IMO.

Am I missing something or is there a law that will restrict them from banning back to the original date with new legislation. I am pretty sure there is nothing that says they "have" to grandfather new rifles in.

I see where the OP is coming from. If I had a pile of pre-ban ARs I would probably sell all but one at  a profit, i'm certainly not going to lose money on the deal. If the buyer could provide me with a lower of equal quality I would take that amount out of the price.

Quoted: Am I missing something or is there a law that will restrict them from banning back to the original date with new legislation. I am pretty sure there is nothing that says they "have" to grandfather new rifles in. I see where the OP is coming from. If I had a pile of pre-ban ARs I would probably sell all but one at  a profit, i'm certainly not going to lose money on the deal. If the buyer could provide me with a lower of equal quality I would take that amount out of the price.

I'm not sure about the legal ins and outs on this issue, but if they could go back and modify/reinstate laws, why not go back to any arbitrary date/law - say the NFA of 1934 or the GCA of 1968 and define and ban all semi auto assault rifles from those dates forward.  I'm thinking new legislation would have to be drafted and passed and the effective date for any grandfather would be the new enactment date.

As far as the grandfather issue, if they don't grandfather, everybody loses, pre and post '94.

deleted


to not offend anyone.

Quoted: What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe. Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby.

Come on.. What we have here is a brother reaching out for some help.  If I had what he wanted I would help.  If not to help him out but to stick it to the NY legistlators.

Quoted: But again. Move to a free state!

Why do you keep saying this? Could you just move at the drop of a hat? Let me point out that some people cannot move so easily. Did you ever consider the guys with family, job, or other commitments that make moving a hard proposition?

Quoted: Quoted: But again. Move to a free state! Why do you keep saying this? Could you just move at the drop of a hat? Let me point out that some people cannot move so easily. Did you ever consider the guys with family, job, or other commitments that make moving a hard proposition?

Aren't we grumpy today?

Ok Dinger!

You solve his problem.....................

Quoted: Quoted: But again. Move to a free state! Why do you keep saying this? Could you just move at the drop of a hat? Let me point out that some people cannot move so easily. Did you ever consider the guys with family, job, or other commitments that make moving a hard proposition?

if it is important enough, moving will happen.    back in the day, would you like to starve to death on moldy potatoes, or move to america?

face it, the folks in NY or other states like it enough that they stay.   Or politely- they just can't be bothered enough to move.

I made a swap with a NYer.  No reason not to...besides it pisses chucky and the hildabeest off.

Quoted: What have you lost??????  You have, in essence, changed the serial number on your rifle.  That's it!!!!

The only "preban" I have left is my Colt. I will not trade/sell it as it says AR15A2 on the receiver.
No new receiver says that. Plus, it shoots great.

I live in NY.

It is hard to Uproot your family, Quit your job, leave family and friends behind.
I would love to move to a free state. but I can't afford to.
as for the Pre ban for post ban.
we are not asking for anything free. just a helping hand so that we are able to
have/builed AR's that look evil.
I think eagle20 is just asking to see more of these for sale or trade.not asking for anyone to take it
in the ass. there are guys who would not mind paying  a fair price for a pre94 lower or gun.

look at it from both points of veiw

Quoted: Quoted: What have you lost??????  You have, in essence, changed the serial number on your rifle.  That's it!!!! The only "preban" I have left is my Colt. I will not trade/sell it as it says AR15A2 on the receiver. No new receiver says that. Plus, it shoots great.

Quoted: Unless your rifle has some sentimental or collector value, a lower receiver swap is a win-win for both sides, IMO.

Yep, something like that does have sentimental/collector value and I wouldn't likely part with one either.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But again. Move to a free state! Why do you keep saying this? Could you just move at the drop of a hat? Let me point out that some people cannot move so easily. Did you ever consider the guys with family, job, or other commitments that make moving a hard proposition? Aren't we grumpy today? Ok Dinger! You solve his problem.....................

My post was not meant as a flame and doubt anybody was offended by your suggestion. I just feel it is not a worthwhile suggestion. No offense to you, but just suggesting people move is unrealistic. My suggestion to Eagle20 is to watch the EE like a hawk and put a post in the WTB/WTT boards. You cannot just look on the EE once a week and find one for sale, it takes effort and searching.  I myself traded a preban PWA to a member from NY. I felt awesome to help out a fellow member.  

The problem is people need to take of their own.

I would not ask a New Yorker to help solve my state problems.

I am not saying this to say anything negative about them. Not at all.

If you live in a state that has a AWB in place.

Vote out the idiots that started it, and get in ones that support the Constitution.

During the election, I had my elected local officials over for a party. I had Mel Martinez's rep in my living room. I grilled them about gun ownership. I made sure they heard my voice on the matter.
That if they supported ANY laws that restricted my gun rights, I would not vote for them.


I do my part.


So I guess I take it to heart when someone is asking me WHY? I am not selling my 'pre-ban" lowers to them in a state that supports Liberal views.

I don't want to.

If I do I put them on the EE.

If you don't see mine of all the others out there listed, you can assume we want to keep them.


Ummmmmmmmmm K?

Moved  - To the second paragraph of  my begining Post ..

Thank You
eagle20

Quoted: Quoted: What have you lost??????  You have, in essence, changed the serial number on your rifle.  That's it!!!! The only "preban" I have left is my Colt. I will not trade/sell it as it says AR15A2 on the receiver. No new receiver says that. Plus, it shoots great.

Sorry but that is incorrect. You can still buy Colt lowers that say "AR15A2" with the name "Government Carbine" below it. You can buy it as part of a complete weapon (AR6520) or just the lower alone. You can also buy one that has "AR15A3 Tactical Carbine" stamped on it (AR6721) (which was what I preferred and bought...)



The only negative (for me anyway) is the LEO stampings on the other side of the receiver but some people consider that a plus.

Edited to add - While I agree people living in Commie states should move out (I moved out of NJ) I'd still be willing to help out those guys if I had any pre-ban lowers. You guys claiming that you will loses money are smoking crack, expecially if it's a BM lower that you're holding on to. A Colt owner would only have an aurgument if it was attached to a factory complete rifle\carbine that had some real collectors value (pre 94 status does not make it a collector item.). Just my $.02

I posted a WTB on another board for a preban Bushmaster lower.

I had 4 responses.  3 were in the $400-500 range.

The fourth was for $1,000 for a lower.

I wrote the 4th guy back with a few choice words on what I thought about his offer.  

This is MY rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Go get your own.

All the new LEO marked stuff is marked AR-15 something

Personally, I wont sell my preban stuff because I dont want to part it out and then have to put it on a newer reciever to make it a Parts Gun
I would rather sell it as a whole but then I have a bad habit of not selling anything

Quoted: You guys claiming that you will loses money are smoking crack, expecially if it's a BM lower that you're holding on to. (pre 94 status does not make it a collector item.). Just my $.02

+1

Shortly after the ban sunsetted I traded my pre-ban Bushmaster lower to guy in a banned state for a brand new Bushmaster lower, even up.  I still came out with a Bushmaster lower but instead of it being 14 years old it was brand new and unfired.  If I had more I'd do the same with them as well.  You get to hook up another arfcomer, it pisses "the man" off and you replace that old, tired lower with a brand spanking new one.  It was a win-win for both.  It should be noted that I don't care what is stamped on the side of the lower or how sentimental it is...to me it's a tool so I have no problem trading them off for one that functions equally.

Hi Cvg69

Here is a pic i found of a Colt 6520 receiver - as you stated   Here is a Colt  AR-6520  stamped Colt AR15 A2 that can be bought /sold or traded .

Was going to post a pic  but  i see YardDogOne  has taken care of that..  Thanks YardDogOne

Thanks
Eagle20

I guess I've got a preban lower...Colt marked Sporter Match HBAR 001XXX I could sell..

I had Kurts turn the DD Big Hole upper into his Kurtsgewehr (Dissy)
Bushmaster Govt Barrel turned down to 16" with the gas port opened up..

I had Kurt Moly coat both the Daniel Defense upper and Colt lower (olive drab)

I did not have the original carry handle upper moly coated..and like a dummy I sold off
the 20" 1in7 barrel years ago..

I can probably just sell the big hole upper separately..or along with the Dissy barrel

I will try to figure out a price and put her up on the EE tonight

Quoted: pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL366/498052/5478468/77425848.jpg pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL366/498052/5478468/77641159.jpg pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL366/498052/5478468/77641169.jpg pic11.picturetrail.com/VOL366/498052/5478468/77642373.jpg All the new LEO marked stuff is marked AR-15 something Personally, I wont sell my preban stuff because I dont want to part it out and then have to put it on a newer reciever to make it a Parts Gun I would rather sell it as a whole but then I have a bad habit of not selling anything

SWEET! Who sells those and what is the price for lowers?

Quoted: All the new LEO marked stuff is marked AR-15 something

Thanks for the pics but that statement is not correct either. I couldn't find a pic (didn't look that hard ) but the 6920's are not marked AR15. They are simply marked "Law Enforcement Carbine"

Quoted: SWEET! Who sells those and what is the price for lowers?

Last I checked, you can get either the AR15A2 or AR15A3 lowers from Saw LE Sales. I think maybe the 9mm lower too?

Stripped = $250
Complete w/o stock = $350
Complete w/6 position Stock = $500

Quoted: Quoted: All the new LEO marked stuff is marked AR-15 something Thanks for the pics but that statement is not correct either. I couldn't find a pic (didn't look that hard ) but the 6920's are not marked AR15. They are simply marked "Law Enforcement Carbine"

You are correct but I was responding to this statement

Quoted: Quoted: What have you lost??????  You have, in essence, changed the serial number on your rifle.  That's it!!!! The only "preban" I have left is my Colt. I will not trade/sell it as it says AR15A2 on the receiver. No new receiver says that. Plus, it shoots great.

Here is a 6920HB, same as the 6920

Sounds like you guys either need to vote the anti's out of office or you need to move to a "red state"

ETA: +1 on Specialized Armament

Quoted: Quoted: SWEET! Who sells those and what is the price for lowers? Last I checked, you can get either the AR15A2 or AR15A3 lowers from Saw LE Sales. I think maybe the 9mm lower too? and AR-15 Lightweight Stripped = $250 Complete w/o stock = $350 Not assembled, they will sell you a $125.00 LPK for $100.00 when you buy it with the lower, they do not assemble it without a charge for that service Complete w/6 position Stock = $500 Again they do not assemble it, they will sell you the stock kit at a discount when you buy the reciever and LPK

Fixed it for ya

For EVERYTHING Colt, Specialized Armament

Not cheap but they have everything you need or want,

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SWEET! Who sells those and what is the price for lowers? Last I checked, you can get either the AR15A2 or AR15A3 lowers from Saw LE Sales. I think maybe the 9mm lower too? and AR-15 Lightweight Stripped = $250 Complete w/o stock = $350 Factory assembled Complete w/6 position Stock = $500 Factory assembled Fixed it for ya I fixed it back to the way it should read For EVERYTHING Colt, Specialized Armament+1 Not cheap but they have everything you need or want, +1

If you pay for either the $350 or $500 option, they come pre-assembled. Judging by the way it mine came packaged, I'm thinking it was factory assembled but I can't swear to that. I have to talk to Tina on Monday anyway so I will verify that with her.

BTW - You are Johnny on the spot with those pics! Thanks

If someone in a non free state wants to arrange to send an AR15A3 marked Colt lower with the 6 postition Colt stock from sawlesales.com to  my ffl dealer. I will gladly send to their ffl dealer my Pre-ban Colt AR15A2 Govt carbine marked lower.Each will pay shipping and it will have to be next day air.

I wonder how easy it would be to live in VA but commute to baltimore to work.

Quoted: What ???   What fool ??? You are one right ??? I will exlpain it for you. I have 17 AR's in my safe. Three are Colt pre 94. I paid 1200 or more for  each of them. They shoot great. Most of us who have them don't need to sell them for 40 or 50 percent less than we paid for them. Most of us don't want sell our guns anyway and are not pressed for cash. They are still worth at least replacement cost, and replacement cost is still high. If the market price in your area is still high for pre 94 AR's why do you expect someone to take in the ass to provide you with a gun ? Its not a cheap habbit/hobby.

Listen, those who don't want to part with their prebans are not required to.  But don't knock the idea of helping out other AR enthusiasts stuck in bad states.  Personally, I think most of the AR lowers made today are preferable to prebans.  If I were in a free state, I'd be upgrading all my older lowers as long as it's a break even deal (lower for lower, not value).  Let's face it, prebans are no longer worth what you paid if you bought high.  Might as well upgrade for the following reasons:

Colt - large hole lowers, then the sear blocks, shaved bolts carriers, and oversized FC pins.

BM - PURPLE!  Early ones were cast?  Cost you more to refinish it than replace it, IMO.

Essential Arms/DPMS - cast, funny looking raised fence, no A2 reinforcements, minor fitting issues.

Pac West - not bad, but shiny black finish.  Why I don't know.

Olympic - I have had some fitting issues with their lowers.

SGW - these I actually prefer.

It's not like you will be out a lower when said and done.

Quoted: I wonder how easy it would be to live in VA but commute to baltimore to work.

Basically, I live in Virginia Beach and commute to Bethesda Maryland

Quoted: It's not like you will be out a lower when said and done.

nah, but my prebans are NIB.    i'm not gonna butcher up some rifle just for a commie state gun liker.

Quoted: If someone in a non free state wants to arrange to send an AR15A3 marked Colt lower with the 6 postition Colt stock from sawlesales.com to  my ffl dealer. I will gladly send to their ffl dealer my Pre-ban Colt AR15A2 Govt carbine marked lower.Each will pay shipping and it will have to be next day air.

Since i got no reply I guess they dont want those lowers so bad after all.

Since the ban ended - I have swapped out five AR lowers for pre-bans.

I placed one DPMS cast lower on EE and got a bunch of tire kickers. Complete for $200!!!!

Yeah, I hate living in a commie run state and will be leaving as soon as I can - but I love those Yankee dollars!

Quoted: If someone in a non free state wants to arrange to send an AR15A3 marked Colt lower with the 6 postition Colt stock from sawlesales.com to my ffl dealer. I will gladly send to their ffl dealer my Pre-ban Colt AR15A2 Govt carbine marked lower.Each will pay shipping and it will have to be next day air.

raptor660r,

Maybe with a little more time somebody from an AWB state will pick up on your proposal. It seems reasonable to my mind.

Quoted: Hi All I have been wondering why there is not alot more  - Colt  or  Bushmaster  Preban Lowers For sale on the EE Board  and at a reasonable Price ?   Reasonable being $400.00 To $475.00 .. or less There are SGW Olympic Arms , Essential Arms , DPMS preban receivers for  sale .. but not enough Colts or Bushmasters .

I was always taught by my Grandmother, "It aint what you want that makes you fat, its what you get".

Your like or dislike based on name snobbery, is leaving you without an AR. Want in one hand........

Sounds like fair market value is moving them higher than you guys want to pay, since they are not coming at your buy price.

I see two options. Offer more incentive to get them to your place or buy whats out there at the lower prices.

Quoted: Quoted: Hi All I have been wondering why there is not alot more  - Colt  or  Bushmaster  Preban Lowers For sale on the EE Board  and at a reasonable Price ?   Reasonable being $400.00 To $475.00 .. or less There are SGW Olympic Arms , Essential Arms , DPMS preban receivers for  sale .. but not enough Colts or Bushmasters .   I was always taught by my Grandmother, "It aint what you want that makes you fat, its what you get". Your like or dislike based on name snobbery, is leaving you without an AR. Want in one hand........ Sounds like fair market value is moving them higher than you guys want to pay, since they are not coming at your buy price.

Isn't there an old saying, "beggars can't be choosers"?

Quoted: Sounds like you guys either need to vote the anti's out of office or you need to move to a "red state" ETA: +1 on Specialized Armament

Hell will freeze over before that happens in NY.  The NYS Legislature is controlled by the liberals in NYC, it looks like the Republicans might lose ground in the NYS Senate and the final nail in the coffin is that NY will probably end up with antigun Eliot Spitzer as Gorvernor.  The handwriting is on the wall and we intend to get out.  We hope to be headed to TX or AZ this summer.  I have had enough of living in the NE.  BTW, I would have to agree with CavVet and it is the marketplace that will dictate the price.  If you want it now, the price is high though someone may throw you a bone if you are willing and patient enough to wait.    

Quoted: Isn't there an old saying, "beggars can't be choosers"?

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Peopel are helping you out. You should be glad. Not whining cause "we want  something better".

See also: "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"

I moved from my home state of MA to VA to avoid this crap. I also paid $2K for a very nice preban Colt carbine back in 2000 - and it shoots great. It would take a lot for me to give it up.

If any of you would like to either arrange for delivery to me of a new LE6920, or pay me the $1500 or so I would need to buy one right now without shopping around, then we can talk.