Hey again fellers,

I need your more-expert-than-me advice.  I've about got it narrowed down to one of 4... or maybe 5.<grin>

- Tac-Ord because it's nice and small.

- Troy Industries because it mounts partly over the barrel, so its "nice and small"

- Arms Tech because it's nice and small and has an interesting sounding mounting mechanism (on a G6 Vortex)

- Knight's because they sound like they might be the most durable

- SWR(maybe?) because everybody (so far) says they are super quiet

I will only be using it for semi-auto fire.  Most concerned with accuracy/durability and length.  Shorter is better - accurate is best. It will probably stay on the rifle most (if not all) of the time.  And last - I don't care if it's 30db reduction or 36db reduction, as long as it's accurate, short, tough, and easy to maintain.  Any pros or cons about any of these will be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

KAC, of the choices you listed.

AAC M4-2000 or GemTech M4-96D should be fine unless you are planning to shoot 200+ rounds in a short period of time. In that case, go KAC M4QD.

there is great info in this link

[url=www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=172604]SUPPRESSOR THREAD[/url]

Save you $ and buy a tough American Triple X suppressor from Mike Klos.

OPS cans are issued with the US spec ops SPR sniper rifles by choice of the operators.
Good shootin, Jack

***Well, or until someone actually puts their can up against an OPS unit in a real, MIL-STD test run at the same time.   :)
Might want to check this months Small Arms Review for the comparison between SWR and OPS 50BMG cans.  I've got an OPS .308 can... one of these days I'll have to toss it on the meter and compare it against some competing manfacturer's cans for my own knowledge.  I like Phil, and I'm sure it's a fine and good can, but the OPS gear rarely gets put up against the stuff you see in the rest of the 'free' U.S. - there's a lot of good, innovative thought in the suppressor business these days mixed in with all the smoke, mirrors, and dB lies. Be interesting to have an independent shoot-off with correct and equal measuring facilities, once and for all and grid the results in a length/weight/flash/sound/accuracy matrix.  You know, like the USMC M40A3 Suppressor trials results would make some interesting reading...


Kel

If you aren't shooting F/A, I wouldn't bother - it's not that quiet.  It is less expensive though, but you are going to give up a hell of a lot of dB suppression.

I'm also in the market for a can that meets the following criteria (in order of importance):

1. Available to civilians
2. Minimal maintenance requirements (can be left uncleaned for 1,000 rounds or more)
3. Durable - 30,000 rounds lifespan
4. Short - shouldn't add more than 4-5" past muzzle
5. Quick-detach
6. 28db suppression minimum (T) 36db (O)
7. Limited full-auto (maybe a 30rd burst once in a blue moon)

My suppressor knowledge is very, very limited. I've got some time on the MP5SD and that's it. I know nothing about the manufacture and almost nothing about maintenance of them. Are my goals unrealistic and if not, what products meet those criteria?

EDITED to add quick-detach criteria. Sometimes I abuse my toys and its nice to be able to remove stuff I don't want to abuse first.

***Not to toss my own hat in the ring, but have you considered the Gemtech M402?  It's 4.75 more than the gun's original length, 14oz., smaller diameter (helps with weight) than most of the comparable units out there, good for responsible full auto (it's not made for Knob Creek-sit-on-inflatable potty seat-hook it up to your minimi-and shoot 1000rd belts-of Malaysian-tracer-that's been stored underwater-since the last world-war, but 30rd mag dumps aren't a problem all day long... then again we haven't broken one for use either), they're $499 suggested retail, have never been tested less than 29dB (Guns & Weapons for LE magazine put it at 30dB). I haven't cleaned mine for two years, and it's been from Alaska to Afghanistan, shot by hundreds of cops, .mil folks, got 'traded' in a poker game to someone in the Norwegian special forces in Khandahar, somehow made it back to the U.S., and was left on open firing lines at .gov facilities across the country on many different M16 weapons of varying barrel lengths...  They are great durable little cans at a pretty darn good price.  There's a nice writeup in Special Weapons last year that the author said his accuracy increased something like 70% with subsonic ammo and 20 or 30% with standard ammo. Thread mounts, simple-easy, no fuss no muss on cleaning (immersion in common solvents like Slip2000 or Breakfree, MPro7, Ed's Red, etc).


Kel


[img]http://myweb.cableone.net/1934/MBA/CoyoteVltor2.jpg[/img]

I fingered one of those last week at my local dealer...I think it might be calling my name.  Do you experience any problems with it coming unscrewed?  That would be my only concern with a non-BiLock mount.

***Nah, I've never had it come loose. I usually put some green thread-wicking loctite on a lot of my cans (the weak stuff) just to ensure things don't go south... If you're doing a lot of high-temp full auto stuff, just put it on with some Rocksett, which has a superhigh temp, but is weak enough to break easily if you want it off the gun. The adhesive is just to stop the can from moving a little bit - you don't need to glop it on there, just prevent it from getting going.

I finally made the pic work! I don't know why I couldn't get that to not red-x on me... Amazing sign to start a good morning.  :)

Kel

Wes, the last I heard from Phil was that production wasn't moving out anytime soon. I admit, that's been almost a year and a lot can change in that time...

Anyhoo, have you heard different?

-Cap'n

If Phil wants the civilian comunity he better hurry up. Troy Ind. folks split off from his operation and they have incorporated most of the OPS design techniques into their cans.

I reccomend the Troy Ind CQB spec, best DB reduction of any and it can take a lot more full auto that a single 30rd mag.

The KAC Arms tech and Troy offerings are probably the best QD cans out right now that are on your list.

That Gemtech Pirhana sounds good if small is more important that QD and high DB ratings.

[b]I don't know much about the Arms tech though it looks like it would bind with carbon to me (no carbon grooves and a smooth FH mount), I would call them and make sure it was a fool-proof mechanism before buying.

The Arms Tech would probably provide the best accuracy with it's vortex mount (my G6 vortex mounted M4 does 1/2 MOA and it has seen a lot of abuse)[/b]

Like this, wes?
[img]http://sniper.rsvs.net/LTRSD.jpg[/img]

it shoots about 1/4MOA better with the can mounted.  It's a .5 MOA or better gun.

That is a Remington 700 LTR accessorized with:
Leupold M3-LR Vari-X III Illuminated Mil-dot scope in Mark 4 rings and 1 piece Mark 4 base
Gemtech TPR-S suppressor on Bi-Lock mount
Harris 'pod
Eagle stock pack containing red LED light, boresnake, and Mildot Master behind it
Camo by me
Custom Kenton Industries BDC knob
I use Federal 168gr GMM on the civilian side, and M118LR when I shot it for the military.  I also run TTI Armory 170gr subsonic for those special occasions.

Here's another pic:
[img]http://sniper.rsvs.net/LTRFall.jpg[/img]

It is 1/2 MOA accurate.  I used it to place third in the regional ARNG sniper match back in August.  I made a 960 yard unknown distance shot on a 20"x20" iron maiden, first round hit.

***Aha.  I *thought* that can looked familiar!  (But I always keep my mouth shut because we also make branded cans for other manufacturers that look a lot like ours...)




***How are you liking that TTI ammo? We did a bunch of Gemtech-TPRS-equipped Savage rifles for a federal agency deal last year - they were shooting TTI and EBR and liked both, don't know what they ended up standardizing the program with.  They did a LOT of shooting and had good things to say about the terminal ballistics of the system, but I never got which ammo they ended up with after the tests...



***Good man! Thanks for making our gear look that good!

Kel

ps: What, afraid to paint the darn can too?  :) Hit that sucker with some Krylon - it'll just MEK right off if you want it pretty again... Nice paint job on the rest of the system.

I like the TTI fairly well so far.  It's about 1 moa ammo, but that's ok considering 150 yards is about it for subsonic 170gr bullets.  I haven't Krylon-d the can yet because I do use it on my AR carbine, and I was thinking it'll probably turn black with the heat.  Do you know?  That's good to know about the MEK...maybe I'll go ahead and paint it if it'll come off that easily.

Very happy..good stuff.  Great service, too.

If you look closely - very closely - you'll see that the ammo in the two rear loops of the Eagle pack has black cases.  That's the TTI subsonic.  

Generally, if you're after reliability & dB reduction performance, think [u]volume[/u] (particularly for reliability). The KAC is the only one w/ an NSN#, & has proven itself in the field.

Gemtech's have a good rep, but the mounting system gets fouled & gummed after extended use. Since it employs springs & rubber seals (of a type), those eventually have to be replaced (q ~15K rounds, I believe).

I've been curious about the Troy offering, but they don't show the mounting design, just say it's QD. If it's as good as Seberger's/OPS are purported to be, then it's a serious contender.

i don't know about an NSN #, but john tibbetts has sold his suppressor to the navy for use on M4's. [url=]www.johnsguns.us[/url] they use his QD suppressor.

i also thought surefire had a marine contract.

What about AAC?  From my research the m4-2000 looks promising.  Anybody used one?

-Spaceman

The mount is an A2 FH looking device that has a built in Barrel collar (It is actually the blast baffle of the system and a muzzle break not a FH) It should make the rifle more accurate just like the OPS Inc System, and with very little if any zero change.

But if you give them a call they will let you know, they exaustivly[SIC] test their stuff and they won't BS you.

I have 3 SWR cans and love them. I have shot my dad's Gemtech can a lot and like it also.  I have friend with a AAC, good can also.  Of all the cans I have shot, I like the SWR the best and put my overdraft where my mouth is.

[url]http://www.swrmfg.com/video/omega1.asp[/url]

Ops Inc, right?  BUT people who don't wear a uniform for a living can't get it.

damn Kalifornicators... rassin-sassin-frassin commies(in my best Yosemite Sam voice).

***The USMC M40A3 suppressor trials ended in a wash... None of the vendor's suppressors sent for testing were chosen, none passed the accuracy tests. There was no downselect at SYSCOM, and there is no official M40A3 suppressor.

This was a problem in the testing / procurement protocol, not the suppressors.  The USMC was rushed in this attempted procurement, and next time will have the time and knowledge to 'do it right'.

There were a bunch of vendors that submitted cans, including Gemtech, OPS, SWR, TacOrd, SoundTech (I think), and few others I can't recall.  Most have suppressors already in duty use in the military, all have good track records for accuracy in their .308 cans on similar guns. I personally saw four of the barrels the cans were mounted on (two different vendors cans), and the mounting was done wrong, which led to the accuracy problems.

Simply put, they put more time in selecting a drag bag for the gun than they did something that lives on the muzzle of the rifle.  The M40A3 is an excellent piece of work and reflects the dedication of the men (including one now retired) that care about the system.  The shopping guys were hamstrung and couldn't let the vendors have the barrels or guns to thread/mount the cans themselves, gauge for accuracy, etc.  We all sent the cans in blind, and the results reflect this.


Kel (wanna buy a used M40A3 trials can?  :)

Was wondering when you were going to get here Kel.