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Posted: 6/16/2003 7:54:52 AM EDT
[#1]
I THINK IT WILL HELP.
ONLY ONE WAY TO FIND OUT... WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 6/16/2003 4:32:01 PM EDT
[#2]
We have already had one member with short stroking problems fith a Fat Boy on an M4 barrel. This was with a Bushmaster barrel and PRI front sight. He offered to sell it to me very cheap. Since I was also going to use a Bushmaster barrel and PRI front sight I asked MSTN if they could guarantee the Fat Boy to work on an M4 barrel (which has a smaller gas port than the Colt 10 and 11.5" barrels) and they said no. I decided not to chance it. I am sure you will shortly be offered a used Fat Boy for less than half the original price by IM. [;)]
If you get it please let us know how it works out. Perhaps I was too skiddish. I dont know, but the similarities in our barrels and fron sights and his short stroking problems with that combo made me get a regular gas tube. |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 4:34:09 AM EDT
[#3]
DEVL, LET'S PUT A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.
I TAKE THE TERM "GUARANTEE" RATHER SERIOUSLY. YOU ASKED IF I WOULD "GUARANTEE" THAT AN UPPER WOULD RUN 100% RELIABLY WITH A FAT BOY. YOU TOLD ME ZERO ABOUT THE UPPER, ITS CONDITION, THE AMMO OR MAGAZINES BEING USED, ETC. NO, I WOULD NOT "GUARANTEE" THAT A SINGLE COMPONENT, THE "FAT BOY" GAS TUBE, WOULD MAKE A COMPLETE UPPER OF TOTALLY UNKNOWN ORIGIN WITH TOTALLY UNKNOWN AMMO RUN. WILL I GUARANTEE THAT A "FAT BOY" WILL WORK? WITH COMPONENTS AND AMMO OF KNOWN QUALITY, YES. EXAMPLE: TAKE A NEW COLT 11.5" OR 14.5" COMPLETE UPPER. INSTALL A FAT BOY GAS TUBE. WILL I GUARANTEE IT WILL RUN? WITH THE COLT BOLT CARRIER GROUP, DECENT MAGAZINES, AND AMMO OF A KNOWN RELIABILITY, PROPERLY CLEANED AT REGULAR INTERVALS... ABSOLUTELY! AND IT WILL RUN WELL, AT A SIGNIFICANTLY SLOWER CYCLIC RATE THAN WITH THE STOCK GAS TUBE. ANOTHER EXAMPLE: TAKE A "GUN SHOW" 10.5" UPPER MADE FROM AN M16, COMPLETE WITH A "GUN SHOW" BOLT CARRIER GROUP THAT SERVED TWO TOURS IN VIETNAM. THROW IN A SACK OF COUSIN VINNIE'S SPECIAL RELOADS. BUY THE CHEAPEST MAGAZINES OF UNKNOWN HERITAGE POSSIBLE. WOULD YOU GUARANTEE IT WOULD RUN? WOULD ANYTHING MAKE IT RUN? WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 4:44:38 AM EDT
[#4]
[buttkick]
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Posted: 6/17/2003 1:29:38 PM EDT
[#5]
I have a chance to pick one up used so I may try it and see. If I get it I will let everyone know how well it works.
IPSC_GUY sends P.S. It is going to go on a 14.5 inch BM 1-9 barreled M-4 with a variety of parts. The gun runs flawlessly at the moment so if there are any big differances I will see it. |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 2:15:41 PM EDT
[#6]
I have put the PRI GAS BOY in two 14.5" guns.
I heartly recommned them, and cannot thank Wes enough for clueing me into them -> Kinda like the PRI Gas Buster. While I would suggets you notice the most improvement in F/A and suppressed use, it is not detrimental to a properly built 14.5 gun. I have one in a LE6921 and have had not problems since - In fact it solved a few ejection issues with soft brass rims (Federal) getting torn. As for Wes's guarantee - I think many here have seen what he can do with AR variants, and if HE sells a completed gun he will guarantee it. How can one guarantee the fit and function of an unknown? -Kevin |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#7]
So are you saying if I use the Fat Boy on a Bushmaster 14.5" M4 1/7 twist barrel with the PRI front sight and KAC FF RAS you sold me with a direct from Bushmaster flat top upper, bolt and carrier (factory staked) Bushmaster AR15 carbine buffer and spring in Magpul M93 stock using Sanchez green follower magazine firing Black Hills 75 grain SAAMI or 77 grain NATO pressure ammo that it will work 100% and if the thing short strokes on me after install but the regular gas tube does not I can send it back to you for a refund?
If so I have yet another order to make... sheesh Im geeting poorer all the time. [:(] |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 4:29:54 PM EDT
[#8]
KevinB
Do you notice any reduction in recoil over a regular carbine length gas tube? In video taping myself during high speed drills, the M-4 exhibits a fair bit of recoil compared to the cats I am shooting against, who are mostly running float tubed, comped JP 20 inch guns. The amusing thing is I can usally run times and scores in the top three in the rifle stages with these guys giving me a hard time about my shorter barrel. Hopefully the Fat Boy will shave a bit of this recoil off giving me a slight amount of recoil reduction. I am going to try it and see. Range reort to follow IPSC_GUY sends |
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Posted: 6/17/2003 6:35:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Dev, who will be assembling all these pieces? You, or Wes? Who will be providing regular matinence on the gun? You or Wes? If the answer is you, do you realize you are asking him to gaurantee your craftmanship, your work and your regular maintainence?? How can he possibly do that? How could anyone (other than yourslef) do that? You are asking and expecting too much and then complaining when you dont get it.
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Posted: 6/17/2003 7:52:13 PM EDT
[#10]
IPSC_GUY
Never occured to me to check - but cannot say I recall any real change. The new KAC FH/Comp would be a better way to acheive more control (if they release it commercially) -Kevin |
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Posted: 6/18/2003 7:54:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: IPSC_GUY The new KAC FH/Comp would be a better way to acheive more control (if they release it commercially) -Kevin I'm hoping this new FH will be part of their suppressor package that I eagerly anticipate purchasing soon. Not to mention getting a couple spare FH's. |
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Posted: 6/20/2003 4:31:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Well I managed to get to the range after work today to test out the Fat boy Gas tube. WORKED PERFECTLY, no fuss no muss and the recoil feels slightly less than before. Not a huge amount but It was noticable. Dbl taps seemed smoother as well and that right there is worth it. Getting it in the upper was no small feat and my Knights RAS did not fit around the forward portion of the gas tube so a bit of filling to open up the front of the RAS was needed. Also because it is thicker it is harder to manipulate around in the upper. Took a good 20 mintues to get it installed but it was worth the hassle. My M4gery is a PWA lower, a RRAs upper, a colt bolt and carrier, BM M4 14.5 barrel with a KKF long FH. So for me there were no short cycling problems others have reported. So all in all I would give the Fat boy Two thumbs up if for nothing else peace of mind that I don't have to worry about extraction problems anymore.
IPSC_GUY sends Oh yeah DEVL if the guy who had the problems with his Fat Boy doesn't want it I will by it. |
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Posted: 6/20/2003 5:16:42 PM EDT
[#13]
[b]Oh yeah DEVL if the guy who had the problems with his Fat Boy doesn't want it I will by it.[/b]
Sorry it's no longer available. I'm giving it a try in another upper. So far so good. |
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Posted: 6/20/2003 7:36:29 PM EDT
[#14]
SEE?
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Posted: 6/23/2003 9:37:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Hmmm.... well that is just horrible. Now I have to buy one after my next paycheck and I just got a new gas tube installed at Brouhaha's this past weekend.
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Posted: 7/4/2003 8:00:18 AM EDT
[#16]
For the guys that have installed the gas tube themselves, was it required to remove the front site tower? I talked with Wes and he mentioned that it had to be removed, but reading this post it almost sounds as though it is optional to remove the sight tower. If the sight tower does have to be removed- how hard is it to accomplish? Thanks in advance.
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Posted: 7/4/2003 8:06:04 AM EDT
[#17]
I did not remove mine but it was a tight fit to get in. If you do remove the front sight base you have to drive out the tapper pins to remove the base. The difficult part is getting the pins out and you usally gurrr them up pretty good so I would suggest getting new ones. But Like I said I did not remove my front sight base. By the way My roomate claims that the recoil reduction is noticable. About equal to his M4 with his gemtech M4-96 mounted. All I want is reliablity and I believe the Fat boy gives it. Stronger extractor springs heavy buffers and such are fine but The root of the problem is the gas hitting the bolt sooner than a 20 inch barrel.
IPSC_GUY P.S. The M-4 ran flawlesly through a three gun this last weekend |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 11:41:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Great info, if there is any way to get it in there without hurting anything and without removing the sight tower- I'd like to go that route. Anyone else-KevinB or inkaybee????
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Posted: 7/4/2003 12:50:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Maybe I am a retard, but I had to cut a small notch in my handguard cap to get it in. It would only slide back into the upper far enough to clear the front sight but it would not clear the cap. So I just turned the hole in the cap for the gas tube into a notch. then it slid right down the notch into the gas block. Cuttting on my gun is no big deal to me, but I know it makes other sick to even think of such things. I have never heard of anyone else having to do this.
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Posted: 7/4/2003 3:10:29 PM EDT
[#20]
My Barrel is a BM 14.5 M-4 barrel and now that you mention it the gas tube would only go in so far. I was able to turn the hand guard cap 180 degrees and get it in through the cut out. I had to file on my RAS however to get it around the front of the gas tube with its larger diameter. My roommate shook his head saying something about filing on a $300.00 part so that a $50.00 part would fit.
IPSC_GUY sends |
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Posted: 7/5/2003 5:14:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Tapper Pin removal is much easier and safer with the right tools. Although one can usually "horse around" a carbine gas tube enough to get in installed with the front sight base and handguard cap installed, I always wondered if I had actualy bent the tube in the process.
Brownells now offers a Stareting Punch with a "cup" face that matches the round headed tapper pins. This helps a lot to keep the punch from slipping off and marring the front sight base. I also recommend supporting the underside of the front sight base, while hammering, with a chunk of lead to help concentrate the force of the hammering to the pins. If you do this enough, pretty soon the lead block takes on the shape of the front sight base/barrel, also, there are several ways to "accelerate" this "mating" process. When re-installing tapper pins, try to set them as simultaniouly as possible. Tap each one in a little at a time so they have a chance "mate-up" with their individual bore's. |
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