Weight --Daniel Defense FF vs. Knights RAS FF

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Weight --Daniel Defense FF vs. Knights RAS FF

Posted: 5/23/2003 10:24:24 PM EDT

Out of pure boardom I decided to see how hard it was to take off my front sight base. Tap -- Tap and it was off. Now I'm interested in a FF tube.

I've never wanted to gain a bunch of weight to get FF so I didn't buy into the SIR or even the RASII. But the Daneil has always looked intersting because the barrel nut is alluminum and saves weight.

Is the KAC FF RAS barrel nut alum or steel?

Also what else differs between the two?

And don't tell me to hang on for the URX because I want to do this now.

Posted: 5/23/2003 10:33:16 PM EDT

[#1]

Inkaybee, I'll set you on the path, but you must walk it, my son. [;)]

[url]www.danieldefense.com/store/cart.asp?catid=3[/url]

[url]quarterbore.com/kac/kacffras.html[/url]

Posted: 5/24/2003 4:05:21 AM EDT

[#2]

Thats some pretty good reading NYpatriot. However, I did not see a gross weight on the Car lenght RAS FF nor did I see whether the barrel nut was constructed of aluminum or steel.

If anyone can answer one of these two questions please let me know.

Thanks
Kris

Posted: 5/24/2003 5:21:15 AM EDT

[#3]

I can't give you a gross weight, but the DD forends are definitely lighter than their KAC counterparts because the DDnut is aluminum & the KAC one is steel, like you thought. Contact Wes Grant ([url]MSTN.biz[/url]) & he may be able to get you some weight figures.

Posted: 5/24/2003 6:05:33 AM EDT

[#4]

Definitely contact WES as he has the best customer service going. Either he or Paul answered for me once that the DD is 3 ozs lighter than the same size KAC for the reason that spider mentioned; DD alum nut, KAC Steel nut. Thanks.....Chad

Posted: 5/24/2003 10:21:05 AM EDT

[#5]

Posted by CRS188...

Either he or Paul answered for me once that the DD is 3 ozs lighter than the same size KAC for the reason that spider mentioned; DD alum nut, KAC Steel nut.

View Quote

Which begs the question... is a 3 oz. weight savings worth the peace of mind that comes from knowing that your barrel is secured to the upper receiver by a nice big chunk of steel???

Posted: 5/24/2003 11:58:26 AM EDT

[#6]

[b]NYpatriot-Which begs the question... is a 3 oz. weight savings worth the peace of mind that comes from knowing that your barrel is secured to the upper receiver by a nice big chunk of steel???[/b]
________________________________________________

I don't see why you need a steel nut to attach to an aluminum reciever. The conection is only as strong as the alum. reciever threads anyway.

Edit to add:
Thanks for the help everyone.

Posted: 5/24/2003 12:10:17 PM EDT

[#7]

I too have NEVER been able to find the weight listings for these things, after much research. It's as if the manufactures don't want you to know???

Posted: 5/24/2003 1:57:26 PM EDT

[#8]

RAS 2 is lighter than my FF RAS.

Posted: 5/24/2003 2:07:21 PM EDT

[#9]

[b]DevL --RAS 2 is lighter than my FF RAS.[/b]

I just can't believe that. Are You counting the new FF Ras barrel nut but not counting the orriginal nut it replaces? Or put another way --Are you compairing the out of box weight or the weight of the compleate rifle after they are installed?

Posted: 5/24/2003 3:15:42 PM EDT

[#10]

An installed FF RAS is heavier than the installed RAS 2 because the RAS 2 uses the standard barrel nut which is small and light. The FF RAS has a HUGE and heavy barrel nut. After installation the FF RAS is heavier. I how ever chose the FF RAS because I wanted to mount a TA11 and the RAS 2 mounts it too far back due to the bridge covering some of the front rails. The barrel nut on the FF RAS is heavier than the whole rest of the FF RAS put together. It sure makes the set up feel solid though.

Posted: 5/24/2003 3:59:26 PM EDT

[#11]

OK I see. Now Daniel says its car lenght FF tube weighs 8.5oz (probably without pannels). How much weight would you estimate I'll gain (or loose) if I ditch the M4 hand guards, standard barrel nut, weld spring, C clip, and delta ring; then add the DD FF plus three Ras pannels.

I really wish I had something better to do with my Saturday afternoon.

Posted: 5/24/2003 4:36:35 PM EDT

[#12]

THE DANIEL DEFENSE ALUMINUM BARREL NUT IS INDEED UP TO THE TASK.

WE CARRY THEIR PRODUCT LINE, AS WELL, BUT DO NOT YET HAVE IT ON OUR WEB SITE. GOOD STUFF!

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 5/24/2003 4:49:18 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
WE CARRY THEIR PRODUCT LINE, AS WELL, BUT DO NOT YET HAVE IT ON OUR WEB SITE. GOOD STUFF!

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

View Quote

Cost for the DD M4 setup?

Posted: 5/24/2003 5:14:24 PM EDT

[#14]

THE DANIEL DEFENSE M4 HANDGUARD IS $345.

IT COMES WITH SHORT ERGO PANELS WITH THE DANIEL DEFENSE LOGO ON THEM THEY WILL ACCEPT KNIGHT'S PANELS, AS WELL, AS THEY HAVE THE PATENTED CUTOUT FOR THE LOCKING PIECE ON THE KAC HANDGUARD PANELS.

ONE THING FOLKS DO NOT REALIZE IS THAT THE DD FORENDS ARE A DIFFERENT CROSS-SECTION THAN THE KAC FORENDS. THE DANIEL DEFENSE FOREND IS NARROWER THAN THE KAC FOREND, AND DEEPER. WILL POST SOME PICS FOR COMPARISON.

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 5/24/2003 5:52:31 PM EDT

[#15]

I weighed the standard carbine handguards. Single heatsheild, nut, delta ring, clip, and cap(everthing that is replaced by a freefloat tube).

I came up with 6.7 oz total for the standard handguard. The M4s with the double heatshield would be a little heavier, but probably not 8.5 oz.

Posted: 5/24/2003 7:07:53 PM EDT

[#16]

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.

Posted: 5/24/2003 7:33:17 PM EDT

[#17]

THERE'S MORE THAN WEIGHT TO THINK ABOUT:

[IMG]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12620[/IMG]

[IMG]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12621[/IMG]

[IMG]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12622[/IMG]

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 5/24/2003 7:54:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Which is which? [:\]

Posted: 5/24/2003 7:57:01 PM EDT

[#19]

wes I'll be ordering a DD ff as soon as I figure out what length I want. I got a wild hair to move my 16 incher's front sight base forward and put on a new gas block under the hand guard. The new Smith gas block is on order. If I can make this work I'll want a mid length. Do you stock em?

Posted: 5/24/2003 8:35:31 PM EDT

[#20]

Posted by Wes...

THE DANIEL DEFENSE ALUMINUM BARREL NUT IS INDEED UP TO THE TASK.

View Quote

That may very well be the case. I have no doubt that Daniel Defense makes a quality product.

My only point was that if the likes of Eugene Stoner & Reed Knight deem a steel barrel nut desirable, that's good enough for me.

Make mine steel, thank you.

Posted: 5/24/2003 10:25:23 PM EDT

[#21]

Which is which? [:\]

View Quote

The tan one is the DD version & the OD green one the KAC.

Make mine steel, thank you.

View Quote

picky picky

Hey, Wes, did you do the custom paint jobs yourself?

Posted: 5/24/2003 10:28:23 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I too have NEVER been able to find the weight listings for these things, after much research. It's as if the manufactures don't want you to know???

View Quote

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Give the man a prize!

Posted: 5/25/2003 7:49:30 AM EDT

[#23]

Looks like the DD is a shade higher than the KAC. Is the top rail of the handguard the same level as a flat-top when installed?

Posted: 5/25/2003 11:17:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Looks like the DD is a shade higher than the KAC. Is the top rail of the handguard the same level as a flat-top when installed?

View Quote

Exactly my thoughts. Wes, can you give us professional answer?.

MN

Posted: 5/25/2003 12:41:42 PM EDT

[#25]

IT IS SOMETHING OF AN OPTICAL ILLUSION. THE KAC AND DD FORENDS HAVE THE EXACT SAME TOP RAIL HEIGHT AS THE FLAT TOP UPPER RECEIVER WHEN MOUNTED ON THE WEAPON.

THE KAC FOREND HAS SLIGHTLY LESS "BELLY" TO IT. OR, THE DD HAS SLIGHTLY MORE, DEPENDING ON YOUR POINT OF VIEW. THE DD FOREND IS ALSO MORE NARROW.

DD DOES MAKE A MEDIUM LENGTH AND IT IS IN STOCK.

THE TAN AND O.D. ARE THE RESULTS OF SOME K-G COAT EXPERIMENTS OUR COATING SPECIALIST HAS BEEN DOING FOR US. SO FAR, WE ARE VERY PLEASED WITH HIS RESULTS. LAY 'EM ON THE GROUND AND THEY TEND TO "DISAPPEAR"!

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 5/25/2003 12:48:18 PM EDT

[#26]

Does the DD install with a standard FF wrench, or do you need a special tool?

Posted: 5/25/2003 6:49:34 PM EDT

[#27]

STANDARD WRENCH.

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 6/1/2003 8:24:53 PM EDT

[#28]

Wes,

Does the fact that the more narrow and deep DD forend come out to equal the same rail dimensions as the FF RAS have any effect on the way it feels while firing? ie. in the end do both the KAC and DD equal the same diameter with panels on etc.?
What do you think about trying out a DD forend on my 10.5" crane upper your baby sitting for me. I was leaning toward the FF RAS but this may be something fun to try out.
ps. Hopein to have the paperwork for the upper back within a month....

Posted: 6/1/2003 8:40:20 PM EDT

[#29]

THE DANIEL DEFENSE FOREND ENDS UP BEING MORE NARROW SIDE-TO-SIDE THAN THE KNIGHT'S, BUT SLIGHTLY DEEPER IN THE BELLY. WHILE THE KNIGHT'S FORENDS FEEL "ROUND" IN THE SUPPORT HAND, THE DANIEL DEFENSE FORENDS FEEL MORE LIKE A SHOTGUN FOREND.

PAUL AND I LIKE THE ERGO LADDER PANELS ON THE DD FORENDS. MAKES 'EM REALLY SLIM. AND TO ME THIS MAKES THEM "POINT" WELL. YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT AS A PURE-BRED SOUTHERN BOY, LOTS OF MY SHOOTING OVER THE DECADES HAS BEEN WITH A SHOTGUN [AND NO SIGHTS]. SO HOW THINGS "POINT" IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

IF YOU HAVEN'T TRIED CLAY PIGEONS OR SIMUNITIONS WITH YOUR AR', YOU WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND.

WES GRANT
[URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL]

Posted: 6/2/2003 6:14:03 AM EDT

[#30]

What about that great southern pastime, pass shooting dragonflies with a 1911? It's one of my favorites! (I can't hit 'em with a AR, swings too slow).

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Weight --Daniel Defense FF vs. Knights RAS FF

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