I am about to purchase my first AR-15 and am currently looking at the Olympic Arms line.  I don't see much mention of that company here so I wonder if they are good rifles or not.  I don't want to buy a rifle that has "known" problems or issues.  Can anyone that has an Oly please let me know or anyone that knows anything about them.

I have a couple of Olys and they are good rifles.  The only issue I have heard about is that the mag wells are tight.  Other than that, I have had zero problems with mine.  I also have two Bushmasters and they are all great weapons.

Olympic rifle is unlikely to have a chrome bore, an advantage in a general purpose rifle, especially under field conditions.

-- Chuck

True.  Bushmasters come with chrome bore and chamber.  Oly's are either 4140 steel or 416 stainless barrels.  Either one is fine but the chrome-lined Bushy barrels are better.  However, if you are not going full-auto or shooting gobs of shells the standard 4140 will last you a while.  Especially if you are just using it at the range.  I am a chairborne ranger so all my rifles are used to shoot paper and aluminum.  However, I have a M16 (full-auto) lower so I have to be a little more picky about my barrels.  Other than the barrel thing and the mag wells being tight, those are the only "problems" I know of.

Please tell me why a chrome lined barrel is (in your words) "better"?

When you do so, please quote your sources of this factual information, as well as defineing the word, "better".



Please define, "a while".

Not trying to start trouble, but I keep seeing peopl make the claims that chromed barrels are "etter", or that they last longer, but to date, no one has been able to produce any facts that support this widely claimed myth.

Do you have any facts or detailed statistics, or is this just something you have been told?

Awaiting your response...

Well, Zenif, chrome barrels seem to last longer, they don't rust, and some claim that they feed and extract better, because chrome has a lower friction coefficient.

Oly has my vote for performance, quality, lifetime warranty, and price. Mine shoots great.
The only problem is that they don't market them very well so not many people know about them. Mine does not have a tight mag well. Olyarms.com has an article from S.W.A.T. magazine that talks about chrome barrels. It says chrome doesn't do much.
In my opinion, the process of chrome plating leaves the barrel with small irregularities.

Oly also made the claim about laquered ammo.

Zenif,
Don't mean to start something either but chrome lined is what the military specifies.  I would suppose that if they use that in weapons used at least part of the time on full auto then it would serve very well indeed for those of us using semi auto only.

My AR doesn't have a chrome lined barrel, I have a Bushmaster M17 which has a chromed lined barrel, the chrome lined is a lot easier to clean.

I don't own any Olympic uppers but I do own two Olympic lowers (1 pre & 1 post) and both are excellent quality.  Their finish is nicer than a couple of my BIG name lowers. [:O]

Unless you are shooting a ton of rounds the only advantage to a chrome lined barrel would be easier cleaning.  I don't think I'd ever wear a barrel out so the only reason I like chrome-lined is because that is what mil-spec calls for.  I'm surprised no one has started the argument that non chrome lined barrels are more accurate.

You guys are starting to disappoint me. [;)]

Marc

Chrome is better because it doesnt rust. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Oly got CNC machines a couple of years ago, and tight mag wells and pin holes that didnt line up became a thing of the past. New manufacture Oly stuff is good looking stuff.

Okay, Okay.  Chrome linings can't be consistently applied in uniform thickness to the interior surfaces of the barrel, and therefore it is assumed that they are slightly less accurate.  A stainless barrel would give the advantages of corrosion resistance without uneven plating drawbacks.  

The gov't spec's are the bible for form, fit, and function and that go thru certification of being accepted for reliable military use. Only Colt and FNMI are under those watch dog certifications. You can buy a Colt, but not FNMI, so the next best thing is the next shelf, Armalite and Bushmaster, since they have been at it longer than the other non issue weapons, and experience is a good thing.
The Oly have been around for a number of years and would be about on the 4th, lower shelf, since they never pd. much attention to gov't requirerments. If the military went for looks we would loose wars. The Oly will shoot and make some happy, but when you want something more genuine and the ability to apply military components, attachments, etc. then go elswhere, IMHO!
Good Shootin, Jack

Zenif, as you seem to want me to do your thinking for you, here you go.  Lets get one thing straight first, I work on networks for a living but I did work in a machine shop while I was getting smart so I have a working knowledge of metal.  Anyway, accourding to the manufacturer's websites and the rifle FAQ here on ARFCOM Colt, Bushmaster, and the milspec DPMS barrels use 4150 steel.  Oly, Wilson, Shaw, Armalite, and pretty much everybody else use 4140 steel.  Lets take a look at the Rockwell surface hardness of a 1" rod (sounds like an HBAR, doesn't it).  Also, this information was taken from MATWEB.com and confirmed in my old shop manual.

AISI 4140 Steel, oil quenched, 25 mm (1 in.) round

As quenched hardness after oil quenching: Surface - 55 HRC, 1/2 radius - 55 HRC; Center - 50 HRC

AISI 4150 Steel, oil quenched 25 mm (1 in.) round

Post oil quenched hardness: 62 HRC surface, 62 HRC 1/2 radius, 62 HRC center

Just looking at the facts here will tell you that 4150 steel has a harder surface.  This will lead to less erosion and longer land life in the barrel.  I do not have numbers for chrome-lining, but from personal experience with the two non chrome-lined barrels I have (one Wilson 4140 and one Oly 4140) and the five chrome-lined (two 4150 DPMS and three 4150 Bushmaster) barrels I will tell you that it takes me about half as many patches to clean my chrome-lined barrels.  So....  That would be my basis in fact and personal experience that Bushmaster barrels are "better".  I do not have personal experience on barrel life but I quote Kevin (Canadian Tactical) that he has had Canadian Military 4150 chrome-lined barrels last past 20K rounds.  I guess my point was that for a casual shooter 4140 is fine, but in my case I wanted the strongest barrels I could get do to running them full-auto.  After discussing this with many SOT's (class 2 manufacturers) they all recomended chrome-lined barrels for reliability in full-auto use.

Thank everyone for your input, but none of you have answered the question with any proof at all. Simply things like, "it's better because I say so", or "it's better because that's what the military "specs" call for", or even , the whole, "its better because 4150 is harder than 4140" (something I already knew so no, you didn't have to do my thinking for me...).

Accuracy and reliability to not require "chome lining". The simple fact is, chrome fails. This is why the military is always seeking a replacement for the chrome lining, and is why many of the new M4 barrels are NOT chrome lined, and some are even made from 416 SS.

All I am asking for is this:

PROOF positive from an independant source that states that a chrome lined barrel lasts longer than a non chrome lined 4140, 4150 or 416 SS barrel. Stats and slec mean NOTHING until these barrels are set side by side, undet the same cercumstances, with the same number of shots fired under the same time costraints.

This proof simply does not exist because the plain fact is, a chrome lined barrel does NOT last longer because the chrome will fail, destroying the bore of a chrome lined barrel (seen it happen a thousand times) before the bore of a 4140, 4150 or 416 SS barrel will wear beyond acceptable service reliability and accuracy.

Until you have the paperwork that states different, the point, and any response to the point of "chrome lined barrel is better" is moot.

[b]First to get back to the original Posted Topic

A friend of mine has 8 Olyarms PCR's and he likes Olyarms but he did say that in his experience most shoot well but some are very poor shooters so I guess if you don't want a lemon and a lemon (in my thinking is a rifle that shoots poorly)-  

Play it safe- If you want accuracy get a RRA Ar-15 (my SS 1/8 DCM gun by RRA consistently grouped 4/10 inch at 100yds with the iron sights).  RRA doesn't make lemons.

In my experience gunwriters can't shoot rifles for shit and seem to shoot handguns with railgun-like accuracy.  Even with this being true I have seen 4 or 5 RRA gun reviews and all ar-15's grouped around or under 1 MOA[/b]




Zenif- I have seen people (including myself) unknowingly tread out into a post and get their ass handed to them but you seem to be really trying to accomplish that.

[b]Here's what I have experienced with chrome lined bores[/b]

1 Chrome lined bores do not shoot as well as non-lined bores

2 Chrome lined bores do make for smoother cycling.

3 Chrome lined bores Do not clean easily  (many of them will not clean without 50 patches).

4 Chrome-lined bores will take abuse (I've had 1200 rds in less than 30 minutes through my M-16 and the barrel glowing red from the front post to the flash hider [my rifle had a paq-4 and it was night fire familiarization with 15 firers firing my M-16 twice] and last time out I qualified (with God's help) a 37/40 in 20+ mile an hour wind. It holds about 3.5-4MOA not good but good enough.

[b]SS experience[/b]

1 THESE barrels are accurate (under an inch at 100yds with all manufacturers even wilson)

2 these barrels clean easily (3-10 patches to a clean bore

3 these barrels heat slowly

4 these barrels retain their heat longer than 4150

5 I've never put more than 100 rds through SS in less than a 1/2 hour so I wouldn't know how they stand up to the fullauto torture tests.


[b]Here's what I experienced with 4140barrels[/b]


NOTHING they are cheap and I don't put cheap shit components in my rifles the Ar-15 is a rifle that demands more from its barrel than most rifles (like bolt actions) you will fire it more between cleanings, keep it hotter and abuse it more.

Get Chrome lined (if your pourpose is to play RAMBO) or SS (if you like to varmint hunt or match shoot).

The Oly lower I bought just over two years ago is so out of spec that the bolt hits the feedlips on an inserted mag.  Do you think they've fixed that (large) problem with their new equipment?  Oly claims to have a lifetime warranty, so maybe it's worth fighting them again to see if I can get them to fix it.z

"Well, Zenif, chrome barrels seem to last longer, they don't rust, and some claim that they feed and extract better, because chrome has a lower friction coefficient."

Uh, dude, STAINLESS doesn't rust, either.

I have three rifles with Oly stainless barrels, and they feed and shoot well.

There is NO downside to the Oly 416F stainless barrels.

I am not going to go into a lot of detail but I purchased a 300/221 upper from Olympic about 5-years ago and they were no help at all when I asked for help.  I later sold it off and I have not bought anything from that company sence NORE do I have no plans to do so in the future as I have learned my lesson and I spend my money elsewhere!

In my oppinion, there are better manufacturers out there and I would say that an Eagle Arms or DPMS for about the same money would likley get you a better product, but you know I am biased!  Better still would be something like a Bushmaster, Colt or Armalite but we could write a book on what rifle is the best for a specific niche (cost, political history, warrenty, company history, technical aspects, etc).

Good Luck with what ever you decide and welcome to the world of AR-15s.  ARs are much more of a habbit than a hobby as there are more parts, options, calibers, cartridges, etc that can used with an AR-15 then any other type of weapon in the world!  Best of all, people are always comming up with something new that works with the AR-15 platform!

Greeno,

Thanks for the response, but it is useless.

What you have generated in all of your lengthy typing is just another personal opinion with no facts to back it up.

I am NOT trying to be the a**hole, BUT, my point is this: All we ever hear from people is that "chrome lined is better because it does not rust, it lasts longer and it does not hurt accuracy". BUT NO FACTS TO BACK IT UP!! All we get are opinions after opinions after opinions based on NOTHING. Where are the facts from some independant gun writer or testing lab that support the "Chrome lined is better" house of opinions?

Bottom line: There is none.

Here are some problems that your side of the argument must address with factaul reproof:

1. Test after test by CNavSurWar (SopMod testing house) have proven time and time again, that chrome linings FAIL consistantly, and many after only 600 rounds of full-auto fire.

2. Chrome does not hurt accuracy.
If this were true, and barrel/throat errosion were minimized by the use of a chromed bore, every thousand yard benchrest shooter in the country would have a chrome lined barrel. In reality NONE do. Why? Because chrome lining decreases the potential accuracy of a barrel. This is fact also supported by the SopMod testing.

3. A properly treated, and properly broken in  bore will clean just as quickly as a chrome lined bore (especially before the chrome lined bore has sustained high remp firing). The use of a barrel treatment such as FP10 (Muscle Products Corp, Butler, PA), oe Tetra Gun will treat a bore in a manner that will allow for easy cleaning and extra barrel life. It will also decrease shot string deviations in velocity significantly. A button rifles bore will clean as easily, if not easier than a chrome lined bore, a broached barrel will clean even easier. Once the chrome strts to go in a rifles bore, cleasning becomes more and more difficult. Remember, often times 600 rounds is all it needs to damage chrome line bore permanantly.

4. Chrome is an excellent conductor of heat. Chrome lined barrels heat up no slower than any other barrel. Any deveated opinion to this would require supportng scientific proof.

5. Chrome rusts. Period. Yes, it is more resistant to rust than non-chrome lined 4140 barrels, but no less than 416 SS. Ever see a bumper on a car rust? Why do you think there is a million dollar business in chrome polishing equipment and polishes? It's not because chrome does not rust.

Still awaiting (and waiting, and waiting....)for supporting proof to your opinons.

"Uh, dude, STAINLESS doesn't rust, either."

Uh, dude, yes it does, just not as quickly.


Zenif-  If you like a non-chrome barrel, then use it.  Heck, you could line a toilet paper roll with feeces and mount it to your AR if it made you happpy.  Why do you care what other people think?

Back to the original question, I have had very good luck with Olympic Arms.  The prices seem right and the products I have used have been well built and dependable.  Are you looking to build or buy off the shelf?

I built up a kit Oly 16" with a SS barrel.  It never failed.  No misfires with Georgia Arms 55gr .223.

Then I decided I wanted a longer free floating barrel with a bipod, and changed out the upper.  Still zero problems.  Great rifle.  Great gun.  And mine was a kit, built from Oly parts with a stripped Oly lower.

I would like to thank everyone for their responces...although I don't know how the whole crome thing got started...but I am planning on buying one off of the shelf at first and tinkering with it first befor trying to build one...thanks everyone

I just bought a brand new Olympic arms barrel. Finally receive it, unwrap it and it is covered in dirt and rust. I call Olympic arms and the guy trys to tell me that Chrome Moly barrels cannot rust! (*&^%$#@

Then he said to just hose it down with WD40. After 30 or so patches, Hoppes #9. brake cleaner, boiling water the thing started to clean up. I am sending it back. What kind of BS is that? You order a NEW barrel and you get a rusty one, then you call them on it and they tell you a lie. I have barrels that are 10 years old that are in better shape than that one, seems like piss poor quality control to me.

Was it a guy named Skip?

Who cares? Those guys are trying to break the rifle, it's torture testing. He who shoots full auto runs out of ammo first. Death often follows. IIRC, the Mil-spec requirements are there for a reason, and this particular requirement is due to the high-humidity problems encountered in Nam, amongst others.
Again, who cares. Military general issue rifles arent required to be tack drivers, and the need for chrome lining ovverides the accuracy degradation.

Where's your proof? If you dont like chrome, dont buy.

Yes, I doubt a very then chrome lining in a rifle bore will make a difference in heat conductivity. Once again, who cares?
I have a ten year old Stainless Gerber Multi-tool that I can compare to a ten year old chromed bore, guess which one has no rust? Again, the crome lining is there for several reasons, due to the rifle being a general issue military product, which are often subject to neglect and shitty conditions.

I think the years of testing done by the govm't which still requires all the evil things you dislike proves my point, much better that you've done with yours.

Not sure who i talked to. But for someone to tell me that Chrome Moly cannot rust blew me away! Stainless can even rust, especially since there are varying grades of stainless. Sending my barrel back to where i bought it and I am getting a DPMS. The chamber was so rusty that i had to run a 9mm brush through it to make it smooth enough to cycle. Not what i expect from something brand new. Dirt is one thing, but a pitted bore due to rust will foul out in about 10 shots, so whats the point of keeping it?

This degraded into an interesting discussion on barrels.  I've got a Colt with Chrome lined, a Bushmaster Varminter, plain ChromeMoly and am building my next AR.  I am undecided which barrel to get and am looking for facts also.  

It's like the break-in procedure for my Varminter - is there any proof published that you need that break-in procedure?  Seems like a pain and when I posted on the Bushmaster forum, they never responded.  I'm a lazy guy and would rather shoot than do the laborious break-in and perhaps that is why I've enjoyed the Colt - just shoot and then clean at the end of the day - no break-in required.

Ran an Oly for about three years.  Good gun, no complaints.  Shot better than I did.  Eventually sold it to finance a RRA CMP rig.  

Posts about Oly's typically degenerate into a flame war.  I was quite satisfied with mine.

And no, I didn't lose any sleep over not having a chrome lined bore.  

Hmmm...  Olympic has been around since 1976.  How long has Bushmaster been around?  [}:D]  Oly has been around longer the Bushy, so if longevity is the key...

If you want some help getting it fixed, drop me a line and I am sure it will be fixed in the near future.

I like my Oly rifle. I keep it indoors when I'm not shooting and clean it a few times a year. When I clean it, I go over the whole thing with a little CLP, then wipe it down with a clean rag. Even though I live in the Pacific NorthWest, I have never had a problem with rust or corrosion, unlike several of my blued weapons.

Trying to remain on the topic here, I just got my Oly 16" A3 SUM upper. It is first rate. This is no '4th tier' piece of equipment. Without shooting it yet, the fit and finish are better than my Colt.

I ordered my Oly upper with a .223 chamber and stainless barrel not 5.56 and not chrome lined because I will not be shooting mil surplus ammo in this gun and it will never be rapid fire for more than a single 10 round clip.

Insofar as milspec being 'the' standard, keep in mind that is for military application. There must by design be some leeway for irregular cleaning. All military arms are not usually considered 'tight'. I can tell you that my Oly upper is. It fits better on my Colt lower than the upper that came with it.

The proof is in the shooting. That will take place soon.

As usual this is turning into a flame war as stated above...

My humble opinion

Got several...

Shoot great...

Quality great...

Warranty the best...

Service great...

How does this end up that rifles that don't come with chrome lined barrels are second rate??

Hmmmm some people.....

As far as I'm concerned, the chrome chamber debate ends here, written by someone who lived through the growing pains of the M16 in Vietnam:

[URL]http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/index.html[/URL]

The chrome bore I don't have strong feeling for either way, here is another argument (from Bushmaster):

Q. Is a Stainless Steel barrel any better than a chrome lined?

A. Stainless steel is better at preventing erosion than regular 4140 steel, but we use mil. spec. 4150 ordinance steel. Then, our barrels are chrome lined and a chrome lined barrel will easily out-last a stainless barrel. A very good article on barrel manufacturing can be found in the '96 Shooter's Bible (Pg. 33). A typical stainless barrel is made from 416 stainless steel and then broach rifled. This process has been around for about 100 years. Our chrome lined barrels are made from 4150 ordnance steel and then button rifled - a process that's been around for about 50 years. This same process has set virtually every record for the National Bench Rest Association (NBRA). Shilen, McMillan and Browning barrels all use the same process but not the same steel. Mil. spec. calls for 4150 steel - same as used in aircraft machinegun barrels and all military small arms barrels. It costs more but we think its well worth the price. The button rifling process work hardens the bore - making tough steel even tougher. Then, after the barrel is fully machined, it is chrome lined, making it even tougher yet - and virtually impervious to rust or erosion. This chroming process isn't like car bumper chroming. It actually welds each chromium molecule to the steel bore. This chrome lining is far more resistant to wear than a bare steel bore and it gives slightly increased velocity due to the lubricity ("slipperiness") of the chrome. And, you'll see less fouling and easier cleaning with a chrome lined barrel - all in all, a superior product.

Armalite makes a good summary:

ArmaLite's Chrome Moly barrels have excellent internal surface finishes, and offer excellent accuracy for a reasonable price. Chrome lined barrels offer excellent corrosion protection and slightly longer life expectancy, but are more expensive than unchromed barrels. In addition, the process of electro polishing the barrels, and the chroming process itself, tend to reduce accuracy somewhat. Stainless is easy to process to fine surface finishes, and provides moderate corrosion resistance.

Chrome Moly is thus used for Eagle Arms' standard rifles, for good accuracy for beginners at a low price. ArmaLite A2 and A4 rifles, in either .223 or .308 caliber normally are produced with chrome lined barrels for hard service use under adverse conditions, with stainless steel as an option. All ArmaLite match grade rifles, the Ts and National Match rifles, are made with stainless steel barrels for superior accuracy and decent corrosion resistance

For what it's worth, does your chrome wheels on your rusted out old chevy have any rust on them????   Just a thought?

Over the years, I have had three OLY "Ultramatch" uppers. They have all shot under 1/2" at 100 yards right out of the box.
I wore out my last one shooting prarie dogs with only about 5,000 rounds through it. It was a 1-8.5 twist.
Oly no longer offers that twist. The closest is a 1-8"
I got one from them and the best it would shoot is 1 1/4" at 100 yards. I called them and they had me send it back. They told me they had a bad batch of barrels.
So far, they have supposedly replaced the barrel 4 times with no better results. It is back in for the fifth.
I used to swear by OLY "Ultramatch" barrels, but, after almost two years of screwing around with those people, and having been lied to by all three guys I've talked to out there, I will never buy another Oly.
If you do---GOOD LUCK!!