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Posted: 1/1/2003 8:13:14 AM EDT
[#1]
1. No.
2. Not unless you have an [b]AR15 [i]pistol lower[/i][/b] or registered [i]Short Barrelled Rifle (SBR)[/i]. Other than play value these are literally just .22 pistols if used for social purposes. -- Chuck |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 11:02:14 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm not really interested in it, I agree, it would be a big pistol (i.e.,Tec-9). But, assuming you had an AR pistol lower (making it a complete gun), would the whole thing become illegal if you also had an AR15 rifle? I'm not saying putting the pistol upper on the rifle (I know that is illegal without SBR status), but just having a rifle (and the capability to do so)in the same location.
Hopefully this makes sense. |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 11:27:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Generally, if you have not actually assembled something illegally, AND you have a means of using it LEGALLY (like, in this example, having the pistol upper on a pistol lower or SBR lower), then you're fine. Where you get into trouble is buying the pistol upper WITHOUT a pistol or SBR lower.
Note that the AW laws make it almost impossible to make a legal post-ban AR-based pistol, because one of the restrictions is that the gun must weigh no more than 50oz. Post-ban AR pistols also cannot have flash suppressors, threaded muzzles, or any kind of forward grip or heatshields (so the handguards have to go). You can get around this by permanently affixing a magazine to the lower, but otherwise you'd need to customize a lot of parts. Those uppers are really only useful for folks with preban AR pistols (rare), or who have machineguns or SBRs. And as Chuck pointed out, they are equivalent to a .22LR in terminal ballistics, so as a weapon, they are pretty worthless. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 1:45:11 PM EDT
[#4]
There is a gas tube called the moderator that is like a fat boy tube (only this one is obese)
and it is supposed to lower ROF and make a 7.5in shoot reliably. So if you pay I think $50 these will fire reliably. |
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Posted: 1/1/2003 4:10:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks guys. As mentioned, I'm not interested in getting one, just had a question on the legality of owing a pistol like that and having another AR laying around. Thanks for the answers.
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Posted: 1/1/2003 4:41:48 PM EDT
[#6]
FWIW I have one of these on my M-16 (a MG may have a short barrel).
Agreed it is nearly usesless but it IS a lot of fun!! Mine runs reliably. |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 10:53:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: And as Chuck pointed out, they are equivalent to a .22LR in terminal ballistics, so as a weapon, they are pretty worthless. At muzzle you get 2000-2300 FPS. for 7.5" barrel using 55gr .223. Quite a bit better than a .22LR, I would suggest, but not as good as what comes out of 16" or 20" barrel. Oly's OA-93 uppers, work very reliably in my expierence. They use a pig-tail gas tube, which improves cycling over just straight gas tube. |
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Posted: 1/2/2003 11:51:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: You can get around this by permanently affixing a magazine to the lower, but otherwise you'd need to customize a lot of parts. -Troy Troy do you know what is the correct method to permanently affix the mag? Pinning? replacing the mag release button with a nut. Also I asked in another thraed, but did not get a definite response. If I buy a stripped lower to build a postban pistol, can I later turn it into a rifle ( postban rifle with a 16" plus barrel ) I think I could, since ther are kits for Glocks, 1911 that turn the pistol into a carbine. I would like to build such a pistol strictly for range fun. I can't see myself paying $ 1500 to 3K for a range toy. I have other ARs and rifles for defensive use, and breaking open the pistol to load does not bother me. I got lots of parts to make the build inexpensive enough. Thanks Ariel |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 12:07:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Replace the mag catch button with a bolt, and pin the mag in place, and you should be good to go.
Yes, you could later make a pistol into a rifle. When you buy the lower, you'd need to make sure it is transferred to you as a pistol, following all pistol-related laws. This will probably confuse your FFL, so be prepared to explain it to him. It MUST be papered as a pistol from the FFL. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 12:10:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: And as Chuck pointed out, they are equivalent to a .22LR in terminal ballistics, so as a weapon, they are pretty worthless. At muzzle you get 2000-2300 FPS. for 7.5" barrel using 55gr .223. Quite a bit better than a .22LR, I would suggest, but not as good as what comes out of 16" or 20" barrel. The velocity is higher, yes, but [b]terminal[/b] ballistics with most ammo will be identical. A deep "icepick" profile hole. Even the 100gr ammo that was being tested needs to be at 2300 fps to be effective, and it won't be close to that out of the short barrel. AR pistols (well, .223 ones anyway) are great range fun, but they are lousy weapons. -Troy |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 12:37:30 AM EDT
[#11]
put it on a Tannery Shop 80% lower, for a semiauto the BATF says it has to be under 50oz unloaded, have NO handguards, no threaded Barrel.
Or pin the magazine in place, which sux, or find an expensive RARE preban pistol lower. Its doable and legal on a Tannery 80%!, the hard part is the weight. |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 9:45:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Replace the mag catch button with a bolt, and pin the mag in place, and you should be good to go. I would be cautious about this method. I know the BATF required a LOT more of Oly when they did their OA-96. They ruined a lower in the process of verifying that the magazine was permanent, I was told. Also based upon the word permanent from personal response from a tech branch query that I did a while back, permanent means more than not easily removed. Torch cutting to remove something is a sign that something was permanent. Having to break or heat up considerably (1100 degree silver solder) is considered permanent. Blind pin is also another ruler to use. My 2 cents from my expierence. It MUST be papered as a pistol from the FFL. I have never seen it written that it MUST, but it is desirable. I have not seen it written in the CFR's. Care to share where you have seen this written up? |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 10:03:50 AM EDT
[#13]
I have never seen it written that it MUST [be a pistol lower], but it is desirable. I have not seen it written in the CFR's. Care to share where you have seen this written up? That part is from the NFA rather than the crime bill. You can't convert a rifle to a pistol by removing the stock and shortening the barrel. It's still a rifle, and it would become an illegal short-barreled rifle. If you know of some way to legally convert a rifle receiver to a pistol receiver, I'd love to hear it.z |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 11:34:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Replace the mag catch button with a bolt, and pin the mag in place, and you should be good to go. I would be cautious about this method. I know the BATF required a LOT more of Oly when they did their OA-96. They ruined a lower in the process of verifying that the magazine was permanent, I was told. Also based upon the word permanent from personal response from a tech branch query that I did a while back, permanent means more than not easily removed. Torch cutting to remove something is a sign that something was permanent. Having to break or heat up considerably (1100 degree silver solder) is considered permanent. Blind pin is also another ruler to use. My 2 cents from my expierence. All that trouble when the mag is loaded by breaking the action. If I do it it will be by replacing the mag button and pinning the mag in two places. |
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Posted: 1/3/2003 1:57:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: That part is from the NFA rather than the crime bill. You can't convert a rifle to a pistol by removing the stock and shortening the barrel. It's still a rifle, and it would become an illegal short-barreled rifle. If you know of some way to legally convert a rifle receiver to a pistol receiver, I'd love to hear it.z OK. Where in NFA regulations does it say that a receiver must be logged out to a person as a pistol? The ruling says that a rifle cannot be converted into pistol. One can log a virgin rceiver out as a receiver and then the end user can choose to make it a pistol or rifle. It is suggested by many, that to show a paper trail, that the FFL should log it out as a pistol. No where in the regulations have I seen where it says it must be logged out as a pistol or rifle when selling a virgin receiver. If you know where it is, please educate me! |
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