I was at my LGS yesterday and they had a lightly used older DPMS M4 configuration for $499. 16” M4 profile 1/9 twist, chrome bore, A2 front sight tower, removable carry handle A2 rear sights. The bolt, carrier and CH had been swapped out to Ruger. Overall, very clean. Almost no wear on bolt, no brass marks on Brunton bump, nothing to indicate abuse or improper care. Has shitty tacticool handguards I’ll ditch for standard M4 plastics.

Given that I have a bunch of nice AR’s and plenty of quality parts laying around, would you grab this for a cheap beater KISS platform given the price?

You have to ask? Id jump on that. A lot of ars in that price range are only phosphates or have bad nitriding.

Give us a range report.

Never has a problem with DPMS rifles or parts. @$499 its probably already gone.

Rule #1
When you run across a good deal, buy it then because it will be gone when you go back for it tomorrow.

Ahhh....but it's on hold for me through Monday evening. No charge.

You should definitely go for it. I know that I would.

Definitely. Buy and ask questions later

Psa upper and EPT trigger lower with magpul furniture and midlength option are hard to beat for $450 total so I usually pass on the other budget rifles at that price. It's still good if you want the DPMS logo.



Today's $500 ARs are pretty much the $89 sks and $279 AKs so if you pass on it just remember you will regret it in a couple decades most likely. Hopefully ARs will always be cheap though.

Never a bad idea to have one AR or other rifle that you are willing to consider a "truck gun of moderate not high value".  Particularly if there are AR's and other rifles in the collection with thousand dollar optics on the that would be painful to risk beating up.

Absolutely! I grabbed one for $400 cash at a pawnshop a few years ago and this is exactly what I use it for. It's a AP4 police trade-in, the quality one, all mil-spec, not the cheapo dmps. It even came with a eotech 553 with a shattered front window but it still turns on and the reticle even still works.

No, for me I would save the cash until I had enough for one of the new shot show announced blonde AK's from Century Arms or PSA. To me a well-rounded firearm collection is as important as a well-rounded diet to one's physical and mental health. That is taking in to account no current deficiency in any needed percentage of FAL, HK91, or other recommend collection allowance. Embrace diversity.

Oh Lord…I have plenty of diversity. No more AK’s for me.

Living the full life is so rewarding. If DPMS complements the truck that's where it belongs.

AKs, even the US made ones are too damn expensive to be considered truck guns today.

At the prices of today's trucks? I think not.

I ended up nabbing it.

It does look to be the older police style guns. Seems solid and mil-spec without stupid panthers branding everything.

I’ll be taking it home for a good detailing. Will get a quick zero tonight and put it through its paces next weekend.

Pics later.


A couple years ago I bought a police trade in older Bushmaster for $389 with mags and Pelican case. It was a mid-length carbine with fixed A2 sights and heavy barrel. Took me hours to clean it up and get the outside scratch free. That thing was a tack driver. Sold it to one of the police officers who works our campus and have always regretted selling that rifle.

Hopefully, this will be a worthy replacement.

I’d grab that.

If turns out not to be  reliable as a trunk gun you could easily sell it again with minimal loss

It's an AR. Any reliability issues can be easy fixed with a few upgraded parts or adjustments.

I wouldn't touch anything from them as they've always been on the lower end of anything.

For $500, I'd have invested in a PSA Premium CHF kit and a $50 lower.

You stated you already have a few AR's.

I would pass, even though it is a good deal, and use that $500 toward a platform you don't already have... a downpayment on a nice long range precision rifle, or a B&T rig, or add to your ammo fort.

Yep.

Just got back from the range to get a rough zero and check function. Perfect. No function issues and accuracy was excellent with PMC M855. Only shot 20 rounds total at 50 yards using Revised Improved Battle Sight Zero. Took almost no time to get a good initial zero and had several three round groups touching at 50 from a bench. I think that's good enough until I can stretch it out a bit next weekend. I think it will serve my purpose satisfactorily and if I have a breakage, no biggie...I have lots of spare parts. And, I'm not going to get my feels hurt if this one gets beat to Hell. Took the POS Chinese faux rail system off and tossed on some skinny Colt 6-hole hand guards. Will probably replace them with something less "collectible" later.

ETA: This one is an A-15 lower with a two letter and six digit serial number. If my research is correct, this was built in 2020. Barrel is marked on the underside: DPMS 5.56 1-9 and on the top near the sight tower it is stamped: CHROME-LINED. Everything is tight, straight, and the tolerances and finish are good. Commercial buffer tube and stock, but I'm ok with that because its a cheap commercial gun.

Here it is with my tactical puppy. She approves.

Good price for a beater in the truck. My truck gun is a $125 Marlin 1894S in 44 Mag I bought back in the early/mid '90s from a coworker.

Good deal. The legacy DPMS was much more stingy about chrome lined barrels and didn't offer them on all models.

Nice carbine, should serve well.

Sure, I picked up a Oracle for $380. It’s my beater / .22 CMMG host.

Do it.

I have had a DPMS m4gery (do we still say that)  since 06.

Was my only rifle for a long time.  Well over 5000 rounds and on malfunction I can remember.

I've never heard that before.  When I had a job interview there they told me that they supplied a handful of other companies with small parts.

Only problem I ever had was an old cast preban lower had an out of spec rear takedown pin hole.

Cdnn had chrome lined Dpms uppers on clearance last year before the crazy for like $170.  I grabbed one but haven't shot it yet.  

20 round Pmag FTW.  

No for me.

I’d just use one of your better ARs.  I never understood the “my good gun is a safe queen, but I’m going to defend my life with a subpar gun” mentality.

I’ve owned at least 6 DPMS years ago.  They’re on par with Olympic. Just buy a better product and use it.  Colt 6920 should be considered the minimum standard at this point.  They’re $850 if you look around.  $400 more isn’t that much money.

If you ever need that truck gun I bet you’ll never remember the $400 difference .

Keep the carry handle and sell the rifle to the next “bargain hunter”.  Buy a 6920 and install the carry handle or just use one of your better guns.

Nothing wrong with less expensive ARs.

Nice score.  



Olympic always was sketchy.    DPMS was founded to make M203, M14 and M16 parts for U.S. military contracts, and later started making AR rifles.  They were eventually bought out by  Remington/Freedom Group in 2007.  

I have owned several DPMS and Bushmaster rifles, and they all have functioned 100%,  despite the disgust of brand snobs.

I think that depends on how you use them, and how lucky you are regarding YOUR rifle having all the right quality parts and QC.  Those factors, quality parts and QC, are what distinguishes companies like Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT, and KAC from most other vendors.  You have a very high likelihood of getting a quality product that will stand up to use (and some abuse).

At this point in the AR game (I have owned them for 38 years) I can say there is a difference between a $500 AR and $1000 AR .  Once you cross over $1000 you're starting to pay for specialization or innovation.

Brand snobs may exist, but it is probable that many of them have EARNED their opinion by having experience with "lesser brands".

There will always be the "participation award" mentality in the gun world.  To YOU it may be "just as good as" but to someone else with more experience it probably isn't.

Some people get budget ARs, run them hard, and have zero issues.  Some people get budget ARs and have nothing but trouble.  Very few people buy a Colt, DD, LMT or KAC and have any issues no matter how hard or long (round count) they run them.   That extra money isn't exclusively for the rollmark on the lower.  It is quality materials, parts testing and inspections, and QC during assembly.

The real difference shows up when you actually high-round-count your guns.  For example, I have fired 50-55,000 rounds of 5.56x45mm through various ARs over the past three to four years.  When you shoot 10,000+ rounds a year you learn a lot about QC.  Try running 5-6,000rds through your DPMS or Bushmaster without cleaning it.  I did this with a Colt 6920.  Zero malfs.  I ended up sonic cleaning it and sold it through consignment at a local shop.  0 cleaning. 0 malfunctions.  It sold with full disclosure (I put my range records with it at the shop) for $675 ($625 to me and $50 to the shop owner) when a new 6920 was $800-850.

Having said all that ... I'm glad you're happy with your purchases.

My son's Colt 6920 went tits up at 500 rounds. Replaced the BCG with a PSA BCG and it's been perfect ever since. Teir 1 manufacturers have crap slip through QC just like budget manufacturers do.

Ask if they have the Ruger with the DPMS BCG in the back. Buy both.

I have an old Bushmaster 14.5 factory P/W in that exact config(well, was until I made it an M4gery).  I'm really considering putting it all back to factory as I still have all the parts.  That basic configuration is a great lightweight, no-frills setup, then build out a new upper/lower I already have as my quad-railed M4.  

I think I paid like $300 or $400 for it about 3 years ago.

I never said "just as good as", I said no malfunctions.    I bought a Bushmaster in 1995, and a DPMS in 1998 and still own both.   No malfunctions.  

I fully under understand precision manufacturing processes, and QA, I have 30 years as a skilled Machinist and 10 years of QA in an Aerospace Manufacturing shop.

I do not disagree that high volume shooters or people whose job description include carry an AR daily should have top grade stuff, but I have a box full of C stamped parts, and a drawer of gunsmith tools, that I have never needed for malfunctions in either rifle.

I appreciate all the replies.

And I understand where folks are coming from. I’ve owned dozens of Colts over the years and still have several. Currently own a factory SBR and a couple others…plus a full LMT, FN, and a small herd of Colt and FN uppers on a variety of lowers. My primary competition rifle was 20” Govt profile CMMG upper on an old Rock River lower. It has tens of thousands of rounds through it and earned me five Governors Twenty tabs for rifle. Never had an issue with it. In fact, aside from one out of spec lower, I can’t recall an instance where I had reliability issues with any AR.

That said, I do subscribe to the notion of Colt, FN, LMT for serious work and regardless of make, the rifle has to be flawless at the range or its a "no go". So here's an update. Despite that fact that I wanted a cheap AR for a truck gun, especially given the likelihood of theft over wear and tear, this rifle will be going back to the dealer who provides a 90 day refund policy on used weapons. I've found that either the lower and/or the bolt catch are out of spec. Unlike some of my other rifles that engage the bolt catch EVERY TIME a empty magazine is inserted, this rifle doesn't do that. The bolt catch misses the follower on a variety of mags about 70% of the time. Now, it worked fine when shooting and locked back on an empty mag...probably due to the rearward movement of the bolt against the mag or follower. BUT if it doesn't function as it should in a controlled environment then it is going to go back. I realize I could simply buy and install a new bolt catch, but I don't want to do any parts swaps as that would negate the return policy and there's no guarantee that it is the bolt catch that is the culprit instead of a potentially out of spec lower. Honestly, it is kind of a shame, because the rifle was actually surprisingly accurate.

Live and learn.

FINAL UPDATE.

I took the DPMS rifle back to the dealer and showed them the out of spec receiver and/or bolt catch. Given that they have a 90 Day Full Refund Policy on used guns I decided that I'd rather get my money back than mess with replacing the bolt catch and hoping it worked. While there and assessing my options I asked if they happened to have any of the Colt chassis rifles in stock. Remember the ones that are $749 but have no furniture or trigger guard? Unbelievably, they did have one in stock so I figured rather than them taking a total loss on the DPMS and me still not having my truck gun, that I'd go ahead and buy the Colt along with a trigger guard and roll pin. That way they make a little bit of money from my upgrade and I get a new rifle. I asked if they'd be willing to sell me the detachable A2 carry handle from the DPMS and to my surprise, the manager simply took it off the rifle and gave it to me!

So my cheap truck gun ended up being a brand new Colt M4. Let's do the math...
$500 for the DPMS (applied towards Colt)
$250 more for the Colt
$1.99 for the trigger guard and roll pin
Minus an A2 Carry Handle (square forge) sight worth approximately $100.
I already owned a Colt carbine stock and Colt 6 hole skinny hand guards.

Grand total: $651.99 for a new Colt Carbine. That my friends...is a good deal!


So, I guess the moral of the story is that yes there are good reliable AR's out there, and we've probably all owned one from time to time. My CMMG upper and old Rock River Lowers are a perfect example and they've never let me down despite thousands of rounds. But, in this day and age one must tread carefully. There's always been the mil-spec vs. the commercial or consumer quality debate, but I think now we've entered a period where anyone and everyone is making AR parts or complete rifles of questionable and sometimes nefarious quality. At every gun show there's the guy who wants to be the next Noveske, but ultimately selling a bunch of foreign made crap and trying to convince me his $399 AR is every bit as good as my Colt, LMT or FN. Guess what...it isn't. And sadly, companies such as Bushmaster and DPMS who once had a reputation of generally reliable albeit cost-cutting renditions of the venerable AR, simply don't make things the way they used to. Thus, my takeaway from this little experiment is simply, as others have stated, if you are buying a gun and intend to defend your life or that of your loved ones, why on earth would you cut corners? I will not employ a weapon in a self defense role unless I am 100% confident that it will function as intended and that I have tested extensively to ensure that it will. Can I count on this Colt to do that? I don't know yet. But, I'd be willing to bet that at the end of the day it will perform longer and more reliably than 87% of the stuff on the market today.

I like happy endings

Nice!

Nice! M4 marked too!

Story book ending!

So my cheap truck gun ended up being a brand new Colt M4. Let's do the math...
$500 for the DPMS (applied towards Colt)
$250 more for the Colt
$1.99 for the trigger guard and roll pin
Minus an A2 Carry Handle (square forge) sight worth approximately $100.
I already owned a Colt carbine stock and Colt 6 hole skinny hand guards.

Grand total: $651.99 for a new Colt Carbine. That my friends...is a good deal!

My math says it cost you $751.99
Still a good deal.

AIRBORNE!!!!!

Damn. Truth. Never was good with math!