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Posted: 6/1/2021 12:38:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Sorry about your issues man. Acquisitions take time. I can say that before they were Master of Arms they were called Next Intent Tactical. I was in constant contact with them back in 2015 before they released their first product and during the development stage at Master of Arms with their Uppers and lowers. Never really had any issues. I few months back I asked for a gas block clamp screw in which they promptly sent free of charge.
October though? That's a bit of a stretch. |
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Posted: 6/1/2021 8:36:27 PM EDT
[#2]
You're probably screwed OP. Thats way longer than I would have waited
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Posted: 6/30/2021 7:59:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Just made an account here for the same issue and yours is the only word outside of a youtube review where I can see similar issues. Small market for these things I guess.
Anyway, I have had an order open with them since July 2020. Still sitting here waiting. I've been in pretty constant communication with these people since I placed my order and it's been nothing but excuses and delays. I've had it with these people, and it seems to me like their whole business is a scam. My calls are not returned, nobody answers the phone, and their email addresses have gone silent. Got the same copy-paste letter you did, as well as one before about covid and someone ruining their barrels, someone ruining their receivers, etc. No accountability at all. Pretty sure we're screwed on this one, but I wanted to make a post for google to pick up on so others don't get burned by unscrupulous scammers. Again, Master of Arms seems to be dead in the water, with no intention that I can see of actually fulfilling orders or returning money. I'm looking into suing the owner to get some small portion of my money returned. Sorry that we both got burned. |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 8:24:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Just for my information, what did yall order and are you out of funds and if so how much if you dont mind me asking....and the reason I am asking, there can be some sort of criminal intent here and can you plead the case to your CC company
I hear of people getting nailed for internet fraud a lot, there has got to be some sort of legal recourse here |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 8:48:20 PM EDT
[#5]
$3150, and unfortunately I paid with a check thinking they were a legitimate business thanks to shot show and other youtube reviews.
It's a hefty amount of cash and definitely stings. |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 9:28:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $3150, and unfortunately I paid with a check thinking they were a legitimate business thanks to shot show and other youtube reviews. It's a hefty amount of cash and definitely stings. I think Gunday Sunday made a video about them, I think he goes by Talon Sei on YT. This kind of money with paid with a check, if you mailed it is mail fraud and carries a very healthy fine or jail time. I would get the law involved in this one It looks like Ranier Arms carries these, contact them to see if they have any insight on the issue |
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Posted: 6/30/2021 11:34:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think Gunday Sunday made a video about them, I think he goes by Talon Sei on YT. This kind of money with paid with a check, if you mailed it is mail fraud and carries a very healthy fine or jail time. I would get the law involved in this one It looks like Ranier Arms carries these, contact them to see if they have any insight on the issue I don't want to be that guy. . .but why would you pay with a check? |
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Posted: 7/1/2021 6:03:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah he did. That was one of the reviews that led me to think the company was reliable and delivering products.
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Posted: 7/1/2021 6:05:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't want to be that guy. . .but why would you pay with a check? In hindsight it was definitely foolish. They offered a promotion to me but only for a check purchase. Definitely a red flag But again I thought they were a real company that seemed trustworthy. Whoops |
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Posted: 7/1/2021 6:48:57 PM EDT
[#10]
For $3k, I'd be on a road trip already...
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Posted: 7/1/2021 6:55:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Yeah it's pretty outrageous. I took the advice in this thread and have contacted the FBI and US Postal Inspection service.
Currently looking for a lawyer for more advice. |
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Posted: 7/1/2021 7:27:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Being less than $5K, you can possibly get free legal representation....I think, dont quote me....
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Posted: 7/10/2021 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#13]
I finally received an update. This was 5 days ago and the promised update never came through. I reiterated my request for return of funds.
Here is the reply from Robert: Mr. ______, Sir, my name is Robert ____, I am the newly transitioned General Manager here at Master of Arms. I have just arrived onsite and sorting through the backlog, production status and shipping times. My transitioned was delayed almost 30 days due to some issues with existing commitments and the legal process of the purchase of Master of Arms. I have read your emails that you have sent to Ms._______, and understand your frustration. Any legal action you desire to take is your choice, however I can tell you that it will only delay the process. Let me remind you sir, at the time of purchase all orders are given an estimated delivery date. The date is simply that, an estimate. It was impossible for anyone on the MOA Team to fully understand the obstacles that they would encounter. MOA is made up of master craftsmen, material scientists and firearm experts...master communicators they are not. Given the circumstances they have had to deal with I am not sure that I could have done much better...I am not sure anyone could have. With that said, let me say that I have been in the firearms industry for almost 30 years now and am truly amazed at the product that the current MOA Team produces. I know this has been a difficult time for our country and certainly our industry. All of my professional career I have never seen the situation that has and currently exists. Candidly I do not know where your order sits exactly. I can tell you that there are rifles shipping every day and the team is working an intense schedule to do everything in their power to get every single order out without delay. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 1:30:38 PM EDT
[#14]
What the current MOA has dealt with this last year is absolutely mind numbing. They have weathered the "storm" remarkably well. I can see that the communication has been spotty at best, however, I can understand that when you are working as hard as they can and have been let down by their 1st and 2nd tier suppliers as they have, it is hard to deliver concise information.
I personally pledge to get you solid answers this week and get your product in your hands as soon as possible. We appreciate your patience and I truly believe that you will appreciate the hard work and craftsmanship that has gone into your very special product. I will be back in contact with you very soon. Again, my sincerest apologies for the delay in my response to you. I was supposed to be here in plant 30 days ago. |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 1:56:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Keep us updated....I am sure you are tired of this bullshit....not to pee on the steam pipe, but his letter seems to me to kick the can some more down the road, but at least you did get a response. Keep the fire turned up
Good luck... Bronc |
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Posted: 7/10/2021 11:06:07 PM EDT
[#16]
If they have enough employees to be shipping rifles out every day then at least one of them should be answering the phone.
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Posted: 7/11/2021 12:01:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I finally received an update. This was 5 days ago and the promised update never came through. I reiterated my request for return of funds. Here is the reply from Robert: Mr. ______, Sir, my name is Robert ____, I am the newly transitioned General Manager here at Master of Arms. I have just arrived onsite and sorting through the backlog, production status and shipping times. My transitioned was delayed almost 30 days due to some issues with existing commitments and the legal process of the purchase of Master of Arms. I have read your emails that you have sent to Ms._______, and understand your frustration. Any legal action you desire to take is your choice, however I can tell you that it will only delay the process. Let me remind you sir, at the time of purchase all orders are given an estimated delivery date. The date is simply that, an estimate. It was impossible for anyone on the MOA Team to fully understand the obstacles that they would encounter. MOA is made up of master craftsmen, material scientists and firearm experts...master communicators they are not. Given the circumstances they have had to deal with I am not sure that I could have done much better...I am not sure anyone could have. With that said, let me say that I have been in the firearms industry for almost 30 years now and am truly amazed at the product that the current MOA Team produces. I know this has been a difficult time for our country and certainly our industry. All of my professional career I have never seen the situation that has and currently exists. Candidly I do not know where your order sits exactly. I can tell you that there are rifles shipping every day and the team is working an intense schedule to do everything in their power to get every single order out without delay. This GM needs a swift kick in the a**. His attempts at damage control and customer service is abysmal. The sugarcoating, gaslighting, and backhanded insult for wanting updates on a multi-thousand dollar firearm is pathetic. Just be straight-up and keep people in the loop. It's not that hard. |
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Posted: 7/11/2021 12:11:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This GM needs a swift kick in the a**. His attempts at damage control and customer service is abysmal. The sugarcoating, gaslighting, and backhanded insult for wanting updates on a multi-thousand dollar firearm is pathetic. Just be straight-up and keep people in the loop. It's not that hard. I'm in the customer service industry and I agree. Their communication has been a terrible experience. Customer service is all about Experience and Resolution. None of which you really have received. |
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Posted: 7/24/2021 12:03:04 PM EDT
[#19]
I purchased an Enyo in June 2020 and finally got mine in December or January. It sounds like my experience was before the new GM was in place. I think they were 30 to 60 days late from their original ship estimate. At the time, they where purchasing the carbon fiber components from others and that seemed to be the delaying factor. They really don’t have a solid handle on their production schedule. Imagine being a small company that makes only a handful of products, half of your sud-components are bought outside and are in super demand by everyone, and you have to carry workers that may not have all the parts needed to be productive. My fear was not that they were scammers, I was afraid that they would close due to financial issues. Luckily I eventually got what I wanted. A new GM is a good sign that they are getting a handle on production and lead times.
If you want what is likely one of the lightest AR15 you can buy, this is an option if you can take the long lead time and maybe some risk. Between COVID lockdown and ammo issues, I have yet to fire mine. Even if it is of average accuracy, it is just so nice to have such a light rifle to lug around. I had one cosmetic issue that I was willing to live with as the thought of sending it back to them to deal fix was not worth it. Sorry I can’t comment on accuracy yet. I’ll try to follow up after I take it to the range. One last comment is that the barrel is under tension on the forearm. MOA has a good explanation. So the design I have does not allow for suppressing or adding a flash hider or break. |
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Posted: 7/31/2021 8:46:19 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm glad it worked out for you with only 30-60 days past the estimate. I'm now sitting at 180+ days and counting. I've requested a refund multiple times, and the new GM seems to be about as worthless as the last. I was "personally pledged an update this week" 26 days ago.
Now he's gone radio silent as well, if he ever even existed. My concern is also with the business closing and leaving all the customers high and dry. I had the last rep. tell me that carbon fiber was an issue. Then she told me their suppliers had ruined a batch of receivers. A few days later it was someone ruining their barrels. To me it just seems like she can't keep her story straight and is telling people different things to avoid all responsibility for making promises that the company knew it couldn't keep. |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:47:42 PM EDT
[#21]
The same thing happened to me it’s been almost 11 months and I keep getting the run arounds. I sent them a check for $3150 as well. Now they won’t even pick up my phone calls or email me back. Anyone else out there having same issues? I think we all got scammed.
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Posted: 8/22/2021 1:50:57 PM EDT
[#22]
I got burned also on $3150 and it’s going on a year now we need to all call each other and file claims with our banks and get the police involved in this scam they are running
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Posted: 8/22/2021 4:24:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got burned also on $3150 and it’s going on a year now we need to all call each other and file claims with our banks and get the police involved in this scam they are running Yall have to stay on top of these assholes....how they are not in jail is beyond me, there is a thing called check and bank fraud...BUNCO crime also.... Bronc |
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Posted: 9/19/2021 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Sorry for the resurrection of this post.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I have also be having issues with Master of Arms. I gave them over $7000 in the spring for items I have yet to receive or get an estimated ship date on. If anyone has received their rifle, would you mind sharing? I have "only" been waiting for about 6 months or so, but I'm thinking it might be time to initiate a dispute with my bank. I hope the "restocking fee" is not a key part of their primary business. "Sell" large ticket items, and when they're cancelled, take 25%. |
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Posted: 9/19/2021 9:09:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Please do not take this the wrong way....not trying to be that person....but when you say you gave them $7000, does that mean you paid up front, non-CC, but some form of cash for a rifle(s)/parts that you have not received?
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Posted: 9/24/2021 11:27:36 PM EDT
[#26]
None of us that I know of in this thread has received a rifle or a refund.
Frankly I think their "business model" is to overpromise, give up, and run with their customer's money. Their website is "down for maintenance" now. I've contacted the FBI, my state AG, and the post inspectors office (mail fraud, my payment was by check). I plan on contacting the ATF when I get off work this weekend. Frankly I think we should all do all of the above and get these people jail time even if our funds are never returned. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. |
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Posted: 9/25/2021 7:42:05 PM EDT
[#27]
I have no dog in this fight, but I am absolutly amazed at the amount of money these scamers have taken from customers.....and no criminal charges being filed....
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Posted: 9/26/2021 7:44:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Please do not take this the wrong way....not trying to be that person....but when you say you gave them $7000, does that mean you paid up front, non-CC, but some form of cash for a rifle(s)/parts that you have not received? Sorry for the delay in reply. I paid via credit card up front. I immediately paid off the charge as to not pay interest. The absurd restocking fee compelled me to do a bit of sleuthing on the net. The company appears to be owned by a couple from California, that have since purchased property in Virginia. The lady (wife?) holds the FFL for Master of Arms. Someone who appears to maybe be her husband is potentially the machinist. His former company went bankrupt. "Founded in 1947, Lortz Manufacturing went belly up Monday, leaving most of its staff without paychecks." The address used for their FFL is their California home in a gated community. I'd really like to have a pair of their weapons in my safe, but I've grown tired of waiting. I think it's time to dispute the charge. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 9:17:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Dispute filed. Their website has disappeared. I have no recent word on when I might get a rifle. Last email I received states the shop is backed up and they will catch up in a few weeks. Supposedly once they're caught up in a few weeks the site will be back. This was the story in late September.
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Posted: 10/15/2021 11:31:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This GM needs a swift kick in the a**. His attempts at damage control and customer service is abysmal. The sugarcoating, gaslighting, and backhanded insult for wanting updates on a multi-thousand dollar firearm is pathetic. Just be straight-up and keep people in the loop. It's not that hard. I like how he spent half the email just hyping the company and talking about how amazing their products are  And then the veiled threat "you can take legal action if you want, but that will just delay your order even more"  |
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Posted: 10/15/2021 11:37:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I wouldn't hold your breath.
I realize my position is pretty negative (understatement), but that was their excuse in July this year when they told me rifles were shipping out every day. I was also "personally pledged" a reply "this week" almost 4 months ago. I am glad you were able to file a dispute though. Hopefully you get your money back. |
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Posted: 11/2/2021 10:18:11 AM EDT
[#32]
First Post. Don’t really spend much time at all in forums, but I found this a few months ago when I started to notice things were a little fishy with my order from MASTER OF ARMS.
Sucks, because the guy I spoke with, Nathan, seemed very educated and super helpful. Started to notice things were odd when he quit returning my calls. Then I started noticing the same excuses about carbon fiber and other delays. By chance one night I googled MASTER OF ARMS /scam and found this post. I can’t say how thankful I am for the people that took the time to post their experiences on here. As a result I reached out to my bank and got the charges reversed. Over $5000. Consider me a member for life. Sorry to the guys that haven’t gotten any remedy yet. I hope you get things sorted out. And for the company and the employees, I don’t judge, and I’m not sure what really happened there. Don’t even think it was an intentional scam just seems like things got out of control and they kept taking deposits. It’s too bad, because it looks like an amazing product. |
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Posted: 11/2/2021 2:12:42 PM EDT
[#33]
I am following this thread, no dog in the fight, but I do hate these scammers...drives me nuts to see people getting away (or at least for now) with this kind of shit
What I am intrigued with, and I am sorry for all that have lost money, is the cost of these rifles....3000, 4000 and the reply above, 5000 dollars....this is insane... Best of luck and I hope all is cleared up and yall receive your rifles or a refund/back charge |
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Posted: 11/2/2021 4:03:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am following this thread, no dog in the fight, but I do hate these scammers...drives me nuts to see people getting away (or at least for now) with this kind of shit What I am intrigued with, and I am sorry for all that have lost money, is the cost of these rifles....3000, 4000 and the reply above, 5000 dollars....this is insane... Best of luck and I hope all is cleared up and yall receive your rifles or a refund/back charge |
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Posted: 11/6/2021 3:19:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Same thing has happened to my order placed Sept 13, 2020. Promised delivery Jan, 2021. Same excuses plus they moved operations from California to Virginia Beach after my order was confirmed. Paid by VISA. They have stopped responding to text, phone messages, email. I have started claim with VISA, reported to ATF Criminal office in Norfolk, reported to Better Business Bureau in June - MOA did respond to them saying they would be shipping ASAP.
I contacted Wing Tactical the online parts seller which still lists components manufactured by MOA and still has their business summary on the list of manufactures they represent. I suggested they look at this forum to see if they feel comfortable selling for them. I have a ton of Nathan stories about his relationship with Next Intent, and why he moved and severed his firearms manufacturing from his families successful aerospace machining business in California. My guess they kicked him out, told to move far away and don't use the name anymore. I talked to someone at Next Intent and they would not acknowledge any relationship. Sounds like a tale ripe for fraud investigation. |
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Posted: 11/6/2021 6:55:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For $3k, I'd be on a road trip already... |
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Posted: 11/7/2021 12:36:21 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same thing has happened to my order placed Sept 13, 2020. Promised delivery Jan, 2021. Same excuses plus they moved operations from California to Virginia Beach after my order was confirmed. Paid by VISA. They have stopped responding to text, phone messages, email. I have started claim with VISA, reported to ATF Criminal office in Norfolk, reported to Better Business Bureau in June - MOA did respond to them saying they would be shipping ASAP. I contacted Wing Tactical the online parts seller which still lists components manufactured by MOA and still has their business summary on the list of manufactures they represent. I suggested they look at this forum to see if they feel comfortable selling for them. I have a ton of Nathan stories about his relationship with Next Intent, and why he moved and severed his firearms manufacturing from his families successful aerospace machining business in California. My guess they kicked him out, told to move far away and don't use the name anymore. I talked to someone at Next Intent and they would not acknowledge any relationship. Sounds like a tale ripe for fraud investigation. I used to talk to Nathan all the time when it was Next Intent and the early days of MOA. That is when things seemed good and okay over there. |
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Posted: 12/5/2021 8:31:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Good luck with your Visa claim. My claim was denied, so I'm out over $7k to them.
Visa requires a dispute within 60 days of purchase. Master of Arms told me it would take 90 days to make my rifles. You can see how this ended up as a denied claim. It was doomed from the beginning. I'm going to have to escalate this further. I'm contacting a lawyer and the state Attorney General's office. I had to track them down to find a way to have them served. I know where they live in southern Virginia (since 2020), so I'll just need to get the lawyer on board with pursuing things. You may also find it interesting that PRE COVID, in 2019, they only made 25 rifles under Lacey's license. I'll keep you posted. |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 3:53:01 PM EDT
[#39]
I talked to ATF agent in Norfolk again today. They don't talk about what actions are under way but he did say they are looking at the operations and will get back to me. My point was they still have a license to manufacture, so when do they take that away ?
My VISA claim is pending and VISA doesn't talk about disputed claims resolution process. I went to local gun store today to have a shotgun gone over by the gunsmith. They had AR15s on the shelf. The reason so many people got the bug for the Enyo was the lightness and really good engineering compared to the big hunks of steel being sold. Keep on them for the claim! |
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Posted: 12/6/2021 4:01:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I talked to ATF agent in Norfolk again today. They don't talk about what actions are under way but he did say they are looking at the operations and will get back to me. My point was they still have a license to manufacture, so when do they take that away ? My VISA claim is pending and VISA doesn't talk about disputed claims resolution process. I went to local gun store today to have a shotgun gone over by the gunsmith. They had AR15s on the shelf. The reason so many people got the bug for the Enyo was the lightness and really good engineering compared to the big hunks of steel being sold. Keep on them for the claim! People make claims through VISA? USAA straight up will give me a temp adjustment and then wait for a reply from the company. If they don't respond within a certain point of time, the temp adjustment becomes permanent. |
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Posted: 12/11/2021 3:45:09 PM EDT
[#41]
I made a claim through USAA and it was dismissed due to time.
Also... All their phone numbers seem to be disconnected. Just FYI to those tracking. We all need to start contacting our AG's. |
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Posted: 12/11/2021 4:26:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Note to self: Continue to not buy stuff from a company thats’s name is so dumb it sounds like a hillbilly running it out of his garage.
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Posted: 12/11/2021 6:45:12 PM EDT
[#43]
This thread continues to keep my attention....I dont have a dog in the fight, but the shear amount of money that is outstanding and not even a take down pin to show for it....it amazes me that these guys are not on jail for theft and breaking some firearms law that is on the books....
An concur with the name....there is a shop near me, with a silly name, that is selling "their" AR's made with hot dog parts at Wagyu steak prices...when asked what parts they use..."tier one" is what they say |
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Posted: 12/11/2021 6:58:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Note to self: Continue to not buy stuff from a company thats’s name is so dumb it sounds like a hillbilly running it out of his garage. X100 All of the proper nouns are  .
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Posted: 12/13/2021 10:12:32 AM EDT
[#45]
Wow, just stumbled onto this thread. I have an Enyo rifle I impulse purchased in Dec 2018 while getting frustrated with the planning of an ultra lightweight build. I just said screw it and bought one complete.
It gets a little range time, but it’s a novelty gun first, art second. It truly is a work of art. It's amazing how light this damn things is. Sorry OP, I hope you get made whole. 
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Posted: 12/14/2021 1:28:25 AM EDT
[#46]
While I agree with your observation about their lack of imagination in naming their company, I would also like to put out there that a number of us were likely deceived by seemingly "reputable" youtube personalities such as TFB TV, at least I was.
I made the assumption that James at TFB and a number of other people who make a living reporting on firearms companies and news would not be slinging make believe junk products, or at least that there would be problem if they did. More fool me I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Ez66hL1dk&t=58s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9qTNhEAY6Y&t=494s |
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Posted: 12/14/2021 1:48:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: While I agree with your observation about their lack of imagination in naming their company, I would also like to put out there that a number of us were likely deceived by seemingly "reputable" youtube personalities such as TFB TV, at least I was. I made the assumption that James at TFB and a number of other people who make a living reporting on firearms companies and news would not be slinging make believe junk products, or at least that there would be problem if they did. More fool me I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Ez66hL1dk&t=58s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9qTNhEAY6Y&t=494s Companies go under. Whether it be piss poor management, customer service, or shitty products. I would bet my money they either went bankrupt or bad management. Could be both. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 11:20:25 PM EDT
[#48]
I can confirm MOA is no longer in business. They were going to eventually contact us, right?! I can't really share anything else. A legal action has been initiated.
Good luck to all of you who have initiated things... I guess we can all meet up after the dust settles! |
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Posted: 1/27/2022 12:45:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Is there a way I can get involved in this?
I contacted a number of agencies but haven't heard anything in quite some time. I would like to be made whole or some approximation of whole if there are legal proceedings moving forward. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 8:05:03 PM EDT
[#50]
I sent you an email through this site with more information.
Bankruptcy doesn't make them fully immune to other legal repercussions. I can't wait until ATF gets around to releasing MOAs production numbers for 2021. |
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