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Posted: 11/24/2018 9:49:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ARogueNinja]
This thread will be dedicated to builds and discussions of the FBI clones and thanks to Geissele for listening to the masses and releasing the much coveted rail. Parts lists will be updated as we go. Please keep it on topic and post pictures of your builds and "in the wild" photos.
     Barrel: Colt 11.5" barrels & others since there was already a mix of stuff out there between the different offices, prior to the upgrade starting. Lower: Colt/ some older DOJ contract RRA lowers, among others. Grip: ERGO/ Hogue/ A2 Upper: Most of the uppers appear to be Colt marked. Rail: Troy and Geissele, seems like the main colors for the MK4 rail are Black and OD, unsure of the others. Flash hider: A2 flashhiders/ Surefire/ KAC NT4 Optics: Aimpoint H1/T1s & H2/T2s are approved, along with the Daniel Defense mounts. The Sig Romeo4 red dot was also approved and is being used by some other federal agencies too. Spuhr mounts for Aimpoints for HRT guns. EOTech EXPS 3 & G33 Magnifier Sights: Troy BUIS/ Magpul MBUS Laser: L3 AN/ PEQ 15 Stock: CTRs Sling: VTAC 2 points/ Magpul MS Light: WMLs/ Surefire Scout More info here: Industry Thread Originally Posted By mbpike: Originally Posted By GS5414: Alright homies. I'm going to drop some knowledge, and then ghost. Folks generally got a handle on the right parts. Right now, the FBI has stopped throwing out their T2s/Spuhr mounts because folks are starting to regret replacing them with the ROMEO RDS. Things aren't holding up to abuse and long life. Who knew. You'll see the Aimpoint make a comeback. Also, nobody in this thread has the right gas block. Geissele gas blocks are used on the FBI guns, but they are port restricted gas blocks, as in the ports aren't drilled all the way out. We used them in the USMC for some of the souped up M4s, at both 0.072" restricted for 14.5" guns (a bit too small), and 0.068" restricted for 10.3" guns. The FBI uses 0.067" restricted blocks. I think I have one of them stashed away that I never managed to use - might take a photo of it if I can find it. They do a good job keeping gas port erosion from affecting function of the guns as the barrels burn out. Keeps carrier speeds lower, recoil is a bit softer. They are not sold commercially, or even talked about for that matter. If you want the same function, take a G block and thread it for a BRT Micro Tune 0.067" port insert. I'm out. S/F Lets get this added to the OP. Originally Posted By elucidate: Not a clone. Large regional SWAT. Skinny commando barrel. Originally Posted By elucidate: Indeed. When I said 'not a clone' by that I meant it's a picture of a real upper, sat on a desk in a large regional FBI training facility, not something I made at home. Originally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By AZgunner: I haven't decided if I'm doing the clone correct green rail, or if I'll do the same setup but in all black. It depends on where I'm at in a few months. If I need to give my current rifle back and use the FBI clone on duty, I need to do it in black, as only all black color schemes are currently authorized. A black rifle can be completely clone correct, it would just represent a regular agent's rifle, not HRT or Regional SWAT. This thread started as a result of the interest in the green Geissele Mk4 handguards that showed up on Regional SWAT rifles, but all four Geissele colors are in use by the FBI. People are just (understandably) a bit fixated on the green ones because they look great. That's led to what a lot of people are doing, which is combining the features of the HRT and SWAT rifles into a mixed clone (SWAT green handguard and CTR stock, HRT heavy barrel, and Spuhr HRT Aimpoint mount). I think it would be great if @ARogueNinja could update the original post to reflect the four FBI variants that are out there (these details are incomplete and could be a little off): HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock Regional SWAT: OD Green Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount, OD green CTR or Colt stock Vehicle Teams: Grey Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Sig Romeo, FAB Defense PTK AFG, Maxim Defense collapsible stock https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1182/green___grey_M4_carbines_jpg-1584398.JPG Field Agent: Black Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount or Sig Romeo, black CTR or Colt stock I think this is a grey Mk4 issued to hrt4me but is (I believe) representative of the standard agent rifle configuration. I don't recall seeing any photos in this thread of a regular agent's carbine: https://i.imgur.com/A6UVttH.jpg |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 3:27:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: I ended up just ordering the EZTUNE mix car. That’s what they recommend for 50/50 use. Thanks That’s works, if possible can you measure the size of the gas tube hole? I’m Curious what size they recommend for 50/50 use. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 6:30:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: That’s works, if possible can you measure the size of the gas tube hole? I’m Curious what size they recommend for 50/50 use. I’ll try to when it comes in. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 12/24/2020 7:54:00 PM EDT
[#3]
 Not a clone, but working on my "inspired by" upper. Now if only I could find a Geissele ODG Gov charging handle, Colt ODG buffer tube, and ODG castle nut... |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2020 5:24:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Vegas19D]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: I hate to keep posting in this thread without having a complete build to show off, but this is my all time favorite clone build and something I'm piecing together. So...question: It appears the only "in the wild" clone correct grips are A2 or Hogue. Not bad options but, without combing through 60+ pages, have we seen individual used Magpul or other variants? Also: Magpul AFG2 seems to be pretty standard. Have we actually seen any other AFG or VFG on issued rifles? Either HRT, Regional, or Individual Officer? Magpul VFG, BCM stubby, KAC broomstick? Just curious. As previously mentioned, plenty of Ergo grips in circulation. AFG1 seems to be more common than AFG2, but both are common. The Grip Pod is also seen from time to time... This pic is interesting as it also shows a BE Meyers muzzle device instead of the SF suppressor mounts and A2s more frequently seen. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 12/25/2020 2:46:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Got some troys mounted up.
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USA
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Posted: 12/26/2020 6:11:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kevblah]
[#6]
DBAL-A3 finally showed up
i did rip the AFG off because i hate it with a passion 
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Posted: 12/26/2020 8:20:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: DBAL-A3 finally showed up i did rip the AFG off because i hate it with a passion https://i.imgur.com/sVmqj2V.jpg So sick! |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 12/27/2020 10:21:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Took the green boy out for some fresh air
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Posted: 12/30/2020 7:06:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Got my stripped 6933 barrel today. Are you guys dimpling the barrel, drilling for pin, or nothing at all for the geissele gas block?
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Posted: 12/30/2020 8:42:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Got my stripped 6933 barrel today. Are you guys dimpling the barrel, drilling for pin, or nothing at all for the geissele gas block? https://i.imgur.com/HeeNtWx.jpg I did the bombproof install. Used a drill press, was really surprised how hard the barrel metal was. Buy a good bit and use some oil, very easy. |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 9:59:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CFDFFEMT: I did the bombproof install. Used a drill press, was really surprised how hard the barrel metal was. Buy a good bit and use some oil, very easy. I’m to lazy to do the bombproof  will probably just dimple it lol.
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Posted: 12/31/2020 2:54:24 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 1/1/2021 9:26:43 PM EDT
[#13]
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:08:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YukonBoy03: Clone correct SWAT, clone "enhanced" SWAT, and clone "enhanced" Agent https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153104/20201231_210525_jpg-1759509.JPG Looking at that top, more than just clone correct. Aka I spy an empty hole... 
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:13:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I've been wanting to do one of these builds but can't find a green fed rail that I can afford
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GA, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2021 11:15:43 PM EDT
[#16]
The AT enhanced clone
 in force on force training mode |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 1/2/2021 2:13:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: D1N0]
[#17]
Nutro, What have they been going for?
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Posted: 1/2/2021 11:29:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YukonBoy03: Clone correct SWAT, clone "enhanced" SWAT, and clone "enhanced" Agent https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/153104/20201231_210525_jpg-1759509.JPG That’s a very nice trio! |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:10:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ed_Victory]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D1N0: Nutro, What have they been going for? A few high rollers have been after them the last few pages. Some of them often have sizable budgets, finding the parts is just tricky business. They’re free to place WTB ads if they wish. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 12:47:50 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ed_Victory: A few high rollers have been after them the last few pages. Some of them often have sizable budgets, finding the parts is just tricky business. They’re free to place WTB ads if they wish. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ed_Victory: Originally Posted By D1N0: Nutro, What have they been going for? A few high rollers have been after them the last few pages. Some of them often have sizable budgets, finding the parts is just tricky business. They’re free to place WTB ads if they wish. Currently, Gunbroker has listings for over $600. A few months ago I bought a gray Gen 1 here in the EE for $385 and right after an OD Gen 2 popped up in a local Facebook group for $300...so I ended up with two Federal rails and one pissed wife
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Posted: 1/2/2021 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: That’s a very nice trio! Thanks, I think I am done for the time being. I did just order an "HRT" mount so I might swap it out on the middle one. |
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Posted: 1/2/2021 4:22:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YukonBoy03: Thanks, I think I am done for the time being. I did just order an "HRT" mount so I might swap it out on the middle one. That would be great but what would be better is use that and start a FDE hrt build
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Posted: 1/5/2021 9:16:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bhavin22]
[#23]
My brt gas tube came in today. I ended up getting the EZTUNE mix carbine. It’s supposed to be for both suppressed and Unsuppressed use. I don’t have a drill bit set so I eyeballed the gas port size and looks to be about .067
The stripped colt 6933 barrel looks to be about .074-.076 
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USA
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Posted: 1/6/2021 1:16:07 AM EDT
[#24]
i bought the Colt LE6933 commando barrel from apexgunparts
and im running it with an h2 buffer and milspec carbine spring and it seems im overgassed as im ejecting at about 2 o clock or 230 may step it up to an h3 and see what happens |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 1:23:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: My brt gas tube came in today. I ended up getting the EZTUNE mix carbine. It’s supposed to be for both suppressed and Unsuppressed use. I don’t have a drill bit set so I eyeballed the gas port size and looks to be about .067 The stripped colt 6933 barrel looks to be about .074-.076 https://i.imgur.com/83tIoDJ.jpg Thanks for the info, looks like .067 is the preferred size. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2021 1:21:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Urushiol]
[#26]
Originally Posted By kevblah: i bought the Colt LE6933 commando barrel from apexgunparts and im running it with an h2 buffer and milspec carbine spring and it seems im overgassed as im ejecting at about 2 o clock or 230 may step it up to an h3 and see what happens If you do try an H3, please report back. I am interested to see if that would be a better match for the LE6933. |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 1:37:12 PM EDT
[#27]
I think I have an older dark OD Hogue overmolded grip from a C7 build.
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Posted: 1/6/2021 3:50:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By Bhavin22: My brt gas tube came in today. I ended up getting the EZTUNE mix carbine. It’s supposed to be for both suppressed and Unsuppressed use. I don’t have a drill bit set so I eyeballed the gas port size and looks to be about .067 The stripped colt 6933 barrel looks to be about .074-.076 https://i.imgur.com/83tIoDJ.jpg The gas tube measurement fits with BRT's recommendation to use their .065 gas block insert on the Colt 11.5" barrel, which is supposed to equate to a .067 port size (one size up from the insert) once installed. I posted about my gas block here after I got it back. |
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Posted: 1/6/2021 5:06:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 1/6/2021 6:10:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kevblah: i bought the Colt LE6933 commando barrel from apexgunparts and im running it with an h2 buffer and milspec carbine spring and it seems im overgassed as im ejecting at about 2 o clock or 230 may step it up to an h3 and see what happens You might want to look into the brt gas tube instead of the H3 to help reduce gas. |
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Posted: 1/7/2021 1:55:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Ended up taking the 300 barrel out and installed the colt 6933 tonight.
Before  After (will be hosting a FDE Surefire RC now) 
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NC, USA
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Posted: 1/7/2021 9:05:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Upgraded from a1 grip to an odg reptilia
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Posted: 1/7/2021 9:55:51 PM EDT
[#33]
 Attached FileIs this the OD Hogue you are looking for? Compared to a GI OD Blasting Cap Box on left, Foliage Green 504 Fastex on right, on top of a GI OG507 Patrol Cover (PC or Patrol Cap- Cap, Field, Cotton, M1951) I don't have a particular attachment to it, I just liked the feel of the rubber coating, had it on a C7 clone. Would horse trade it for an OD rubber MagPul Grip. |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 5:23:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ironcross]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DackJaniels: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/400604/074A21DD-C6DA-4574-99F2-3CF1F91E2BE3_jpe-1767233.JPG From today’s protest in DC Are they using Geissele CH's now? |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 9:09:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironcross: Are they using Geissele CH's now? Think it’s colt or black geissele government that are being used |
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Posted: 1/8/2021 9:22:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Think it’s colt or black geissele government that are being used Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bhavin22: Originally Posted By Ironcross: Are they using Geissele CH's now? Think it’s colt or black geissele government that are being used Thanks |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 9:44:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Soopreme]
[#37]
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Posted: 1/9/2021 10:44:14 PM EDT
[#38]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2021 3:36:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gdavis8]
[#39]
For those looking for restricted gas tubes, I'm selling a couple BRT gas tubes I tested with. I'm offering them a a good discount. I have a .069" (.067" gas port equivalent) and a .067" (.065" gas port equivalent) available:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/x2-BRT-Custom-Sized-Gas-Tubes/159-2088970/ |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/11/2021 12:40:59 PM EDT
[#40]
DDC MK4 Federal rails in stock on Geissele website!
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Posted: 1/11/2021 12:54:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gdavis8: For those looking for restricted gas tubes, I'm selling a couple BRT gas tubes I tested with. I'm offering them a a good discount. I have a .069" (.067" gas port equivalent) and a .067" (.065" gas port equivalent) available: https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/x2-BRT-Custom-Sized-Gas-Tubes/159-2088970/ Wrong area |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 3:51:38 PM EDT
[#42]
So I have read thru the 66 pages. I would like to build a hrt upper, so what is exactly clone. A heavy barrel, blk fed gen 1 rail, od ctr stock, geissele gas block, spuhr hrt mount, blk goverment chargung handle. Thanks for any advice.
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Posted: 1/12/2021 4:18:45 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tamboi: So I have read thru the 66 pages. I would like to build a hrt upper, so what is exactly clone. A heavy barrel, blk fed gen 1 rail, od ctr stock, geissele gas block, spuhr hrt mount, blk goverment chargung handle. Thanks for any advice. From my quoted post that was added to the original post: HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock OD green is only for Regional SWAT rifles. I wasn't sure about the color of the CTR (whether FDE is in use). |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2021 4:31:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: From my quoted post that was added to the original post: HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock OD green is only for Regional SWAT rifles. I wasn't sure about the color of the CTR (whether FDE is in use). Oh really? I thought HRT was on the Troy rails. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 4:46:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slu54: Oh really? I thought HRT was on the Troy rails. I believe it's been known since this topic started that HRT was switching to the Geissele Mk4, but photos didn't show up here until 10 or 15 pages back. I think the Mk4 adoption was FBI-wide from the beginning, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the history. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2021 4:56:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Slu54]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: I believe it's been known since this topic started that HRT was switching to the Geissele Mk4, but photos didn't show up here until 10 or 15 pages back. I think the Mk4 adoption was FBI-wide from the beginning, but I'm not that knowledgeable about the history. Interesting. My rifle is I guess much closer to an HRT gun save the color, I guess I need to order a FDE Mk4. Is it still the 10" "FBI" rail? And what's the can, a FDE RC or a black mini? |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 5:47:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slu54: Interesting. My rifle is I guess much closer to an HRT gun save the color, I guess I need to order a FDE Mk4. Is it still the 10" "FBI" rail? And what's the can, a FDE RC or a black mini? Just FYI, Geissele currently has the DDC MK4 in stock on their website. https://geissele.com/10-super-modular-rail-mk4-federal-m-lok.html (If links aren't allowed, let me know and I'll remove it. I believe Geissele is in good standing on this site though.) |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:21:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: From my quoted post that was added to the original post: HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock OD green is only for Regional SWAT rifles. I wasn't sure about the color of the CTR (whether FDE is in use). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3ACR_Scout: Originally Posted By tamboi: So I have read thru the 66 pages. I would like to build a hrt upper, so what is exactly clone. A heavy barrel, blk fed gen 1 rail, od ctr stock, geissele gas block, spuhr hrt mount, blk goverment chargung handle. Thanks for any advice. From my quoted post that was added to the original post: HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount (not sure about the stock), black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock OD green is only for Regional SWAT rifles. I wasn't sure about the color of the CTR (whether FDE is in use). 3ACR_Scout thanks for the reply, so a black gen 1 05-430 would be correct with the Spuhr mount and T-2. A black government charging handle? or standard milspec. I have an od ctr stock but that can be changed easily enough as can the pistol grip. As for the buffer tube the anodized od green does look great with the od rail but again if its not correct, why. Have a few other pieces that may or may not work. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2021 6:30:44 PM EDT
[#49]
You know looking back I can't tell what color this HRT rails are, the pics are too blurry. Are there clear ones?
It's too bad if it is DDC because I love the OD, who knows. |
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Posted: 1/12/2021 10:44:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3ACR_Scout]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slu54: Interesting. My rifle is I guess much closer to an HRT gun save the color, I guess I need to order a FDE Mk4. Is it still the 10" "FBI" rail? And what's the can, a FDE RC or a black mini? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Slu54: Interesting. My rifle is I guess much closer to an HRT gun save the color, I guess I need to order a FDE Mk4. Is it still the 10" "FBI" rail? And what's the can, a FDE RC or a black mini? Yes, all the FBI variants use different colors of the 10" Mk4 Federal rail. I'm not sure about suppressors. They've come up a couple times, but since they seem to be used only by HRT members, and photos of them are hard to come by, I don't recall what's been posted about them. I believe they use Surefire adapters and suppressors, but that's about all I remember. Originally Posted By tamboi: 3ACR_Scout thanks for the reply, so a black gen 1 05-430 would be correct with the Spuhr mount and T-2. A black government charging handle? or standard milspec. I have an od ctr stock but that can be changed easily enough as can the pistol grip. As for the buffer tube the anodized od green does look great with the od rail but again if its not correct, why. Have a few other pieces that may or may not work. Black is used by regular field agents, and they don't use the Spuhr mounts, from what I've seen here. The FBI approved the Sig Romeo 4 for field agents, along with Aimpoint H1, H2, T1, and T2 models (here's a reference article). Non-HRT (SWAT and field agents) use Daniel Defense Aimpoint micro mounts. The colors and associated accessory variations are broken down in the first post. ARogueNinja, the original author of this topic, was good enough to paste the info in there that I compiled from various people in this thread, including a couple FBI agents. You have to expand the quote under my username at the bottom of the original post to see this list: HRT: DDC Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt HRT heavy barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Spuhr mount, (not sure about the stock) black or FDE(?) CTR or Colt stock Regional SWAT: OD Green Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount, OD green CTR or Colt stock Vehicle Teams: Grey Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Sig Romeo, FAB Defense PTK AFG, Maxim Defense collapsible stock Field Agent: Black Mk4 handguard, 11.5" Colt LE6933 government profile barrel, Aimpoint T-2 on Daniel Defense mount or Sig Romeo, black CTR or Colt stock Originally Posted By Slu54: You know looking back I can't tell what color this HRT rails are, the pics are too blurry. Are there clear ones? It's too bad if it is DDC because I love the OD, who knows. Several FBI members have confirmed here that HRT is using the DDC rail, but pictures are scarce. I'm not sure which page in this topic had the photos of HRT members with Mk4 rails. I've looked for them a couple times but got tired of paging through this long topic. |
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