L.A.R.B.

Do we have any engineers or rocket scientist available to evaluate the presented power spectrum graphs? This seems like a product that would work awesome with my Mk18 build, especially for the price of $75. But as you maybe able to see from the graphs and the comments section, there is a bit of confusion concerning the buffer and rather it does what it's advertised to be capable of.

Owner of Armament - Nick Barry

This is where countless rounds of testing and time comes in with the LARB. The distance the weights travel and spring rate plays a huge part in my buffer design. It took about a year to get where I wanted. People don't realize, with a normal mil spec buffer and loose weights, you don't get a dead blow effect when the bolt closes into battery. Then, depending on the orientation of the rifle, you also get a dead blow effect when extracting. I wanted to control this and control the weights. Not just let them move around. Cycle rate (on select fire) and bolt speed (on semi autos) both forward and rearward are controlled and effected by many things. The rate of unlocking, and the amount of bounce from the buffer hitting the rear of the buffer tube. Not mentioning gas pressure, assuming for arguments sake the rifle is perfectly gassed. The tail cap alone does an amazing job at linearly slowing down the BCG at the end of its stroke. From my testing, that's where 95% of the cycle rate reduction comes from, and as a result, is also where the reduction in "felt" recoil comes from. I say "felt recoil" cause there's basically two recoil impulses. The actual bullet firing/ leaving the barrel (that's just physics, not much you can do there) and the there's the hit felt from the reciprocating BCG slamming into the buffer tube. That, the LARB without a doubt does soften. That's noticeable immediately after it's installed...

1) The buffer is kept in-line with the bolt carrier by the front face of the buffer being in contact with the rear face of the carrier.  If that can't keep things straight, nothing will.

2) The internal spring will exacerbate bolt bounce on the counter recoil stroke, not that it make one wit of difference in semi-automatic fire.  The whole point of the "rattling" weights is to act as a damper.

A gimmick sold to people that don't understand why the buffer is made the way a buffer it is.  Spend your $75 on 200 rounds of ammo and practice more.

I'm not seeing where it claims it will make anyone a better shooter. Seems to specifically state, reduces felt recoil, reduces wear on internals, increases reliability. I'm not for or against the product but the creator states that he has used spike's buffers in the past and wanted more so he designed his own. I've been living on ODA and Ranger compounds for the past 6months, I get plenty of practice, for free

I just put one of these in my AR9 PCC
http://www.blitzkriegcomponents.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RB5007

I've only had a chance to put 60 rounds through it as a function test since I installed it.  Did it reduce recoil?  Yes, absolutely.  Did it eliminate recoil?  No.   Did it eliminate muzzle climb?  No.  Does it allow for faster follow up shots?  Yes, absolutely.

Was it worth the $$$?  Too soon to say.

My PWS Mod 2 buffer tube does the same thing.

Okay guys, I'll do best to answer these and any questions you have about my buffer. Nothing to hide... ask away...

No it won't. The owner of PWS and I talked about my design over a beer....

No gimmick, it does work well.

1)  False. There are still some rifles out there that have carrier tilt issues. The forces in those rifles simply overcome the carrier-to-buffer contact. The only thing keeping the carrier and buffer aligned (in a mil spec design) is spring pressure between two parallel surfaces. And only a few pounds of spring pressure at that. My design negates the shearing forces created when firing, aka carrier tilt. Not all rifles have tilt issue, but our testing has show nothing but good from keeping the BCG and buffer aligned during cycling. Mainly in the wear areas inside the upper receiver. It's also the only anti tilt buffer that allows you to open the upper normally (other designs require pulling both pins and moving upper forward).

2) I actually agree with you in this. I never said, nor claim it eliminates bolt bounce. Bolt bounce is very little (comparable to a mil spec buffer), and you are correct. The internal spring that houses the weight can induce this. However, this design and recoil spring pressure mitigate and bring it to controlable levels. Allowing the use of the spring, getting its benefits and controlling bolt bounce. And yes, in semi auto it's a non issue. We've been running them
In full auto well. My buffer also accepts standard mil spec weights. So if anyone wanted, you could simply remove the internal spring and run loose weights. Also, the "rattling" weights are not the damper, it's the deadblow effect of the weights slamming forward that dampens the bolt.

Here's my response to the charts I provided. Again, I'm not a mechanical engineer. I'm a trigger puller just like veryone else, an FFL/SOT and a machinist. So, here is my brutally honest reply to this;

I personally have no clue what any of the info on the graphs mean. Those values? I don't know. I could learn if I put the effort into it, but for this case, I don't. This was a VERY simple and non scientific way to test what the buffer was doing in a rifle. I downloaded an accelerometer app for my iPhone. I used a picatinny mounted iPhone case and mounted it about 4" rear of the muzzle, and started pulling the trigger. Simple. I don't even know if the app is accurate, but I know it's accurate tomitself.  May not be "correct" but it did exactly what I wanted. It gave a visual reference for the way the LARB buffer "feels" when shooting. And it verifies that it's not just a placebo effect when shooters say they feel a difference. That's all guys. The only thing I wanted out of these charts and testing (as most shooters/buyers) is some kind of proof it does something I claim. The chart shows sharp spikes during recoil with a mil spec buffer. Throw a LARB in and do the same test. Now the spikes are not as sharp. Simple. Way simple. I would LOVE for someone to do some actual correct scientific testing in my buffer. I welcome that. But that's out of my ability range, so I did the best I could with what I had.

So, a flexible spring is going to stop a 3/4 pound carrier being pushed by a 1000 pound force for the piston square?  I don't think so.  The carrier and buffer will still tilt until the spring rubs on the inside of the extension.

So, where does the "deadblow effect" come from?  The loose weights.  Ergo, the loose weights are the damper.  It is a rather common form of damping.

Depending on where the accelerometer was mounted, the graphs might not means anything.

Well, here's the short simple answer. It works well.

Those number you use are not right by any means. I do have the info. There's simple equations to figure those numbers out. All you need is BCG weight and velocity. Easy. The spring rubbing on the inside of the extension has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I already said what causes the deadblow effect. Weight being slammed forward when the BCG goes into battery. Your hung up on "loose" weights. As long as you have some kind of weight being thrown forward, counteracting the BCG bounce, it doesn't matter what state that weight is before that moment. That's the point your missing. And next we can go into the reverse deadblow effect. Yeah? Where those loose weights also deadblow the opposite direction during extraction. But that's another issue.

Question for you, why so quick to try and discredit my part? Did one bite you or something? Did you buy one and not like it? Talk to me, I'll buy it back. I'm no engineer but I do have a degree in metals technology and I developed this buffer over the last year and half and countless prototypes and rounds down range. I had an idea, I made it and tried it. If it didn't work or do what I wanted, I knew what NOT to do. If I did work, I refined it.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130192114

Besides all the other variations on the same thing, a product conforming to the same claimed objectives has been designed since 2012, and  I don't see the market taken by storm.

I can agree and I can disagree. I dicagree to the point that where it was mounted (and never moved) and used the same ammo and round count, it would give accurate to itself readings. Does that make sense? I'm sure there's a better way, but I did what I could.

Maybe it does do the same thing. And you can see my design is simpler and gives the same benefits. That alone is a plus. Same benefits, but simpler? And allows the upper to open normally? Win. Maybe small win, but win. And who ever said I was out t take the market by storm? I made this buffer for myself. Everyone (including my customers) loved it, so I pursued selling them. Simple. You know that the AR platfirmnitself is the same on pretty much every gun right? But there's a market for countless variations....

I agree. Ive actually runthe MGI so hard that I broke it. About 6500 suppressed full auto rounds in my Shrike. Hence, the reason I designed my buffer. The A5 patent is similar to mine. All great ideas if I don't mind saying so, just different execution.

But muh bolt speed
But muh ejection pattern
But muh follow up shots
But muh wear and tear

@99HMC4
Have you put this in a rifle and ran 35k rounds or so through it to just do a longevity test? Have you ran one on full auto doing burn after burn and then examined quantitatively the actual amount of decreased weapon wear compared to competition products ie industry standard buffers?
Do you have demonstrable proof of concept and effect?
I like the idea of a better mousetrap but the but I've been running a gen 1 SCS in 2 different hard use rifles with nary an issue.
If your buffer works for 50 bucks less I'll be super duper interested.

I could even walk it over to him after work.

So you staked it in place.

I just sent a message on your website and ask for one to do a side by side comparison under full auto fire. I will compare same weight buffers with this system, a standard design and the A5 design. All using the same weight in the buffer, full auto, and compare the rate of fire which will reflect bolt carrier velocity. We'll see what they say. Any other objective parameters you guys think I can measure comparing these 3 different designs?

I actually brokenthe spring inside, then the spring broke into several small parts and worked its way around, messing up the weights.

Well first and foremost, I will never be able to offer a product like this for $25. Not gonna happen. Have I run 35k rounds through one? Nope. Not that it's an excessive test, just outside my budget. Keep in mind guys, I'm a one man shop, a single Dad that does this on the side. I do the best I can and I believe I've done my due diligence to the best of my ability to offer a good product. Nothing is perfect, I would assume there's very well known and popular AR products out there that wouldn't hold up to 35k rounds. Most ARs themselves won't. Most people who buy my buffer won't even shoot that much. I would love to have a company torture test it for me. I've tried to destroy it and I can't. The LARB in my personal rifle now, has around 4-6k rounds.and more in others that get passed around at MG shoots and range days. It is holding up extremely well. I don't have the ability myself to run countless rounds through them, so other people over that last year have helped. Keep in mind, one, this is not my first design, this is I believe the 7th revision. I have enlisted many people within the firearm industry/community (through my contacts over the years) to help test the LARB. And, I did design it to last. Did I run it in full auto (and semi) and test my claims? Yes. Have improved proof of concept? Yes. Have I proved better wear patterns? Yes. This was done by tuning brand new upper receivers, CeraKoted inside and out, then test firing with a milspec buffer in one and the LARB in the other. The upper with the LARB showed more even/consistent wear patterns. Maybe not very scientific but simple. This LARB that has been sold for the last 6 months has proven that.

I will do full auto 30 round magazine dumps and analyse the frames per second for the 30 round run. Then compare the A5 and standard carbine receiver extension with a buffer of the same weight. Nick responded to my request with an "I'll consider it". If he sends me one I'll jump on that comparison right away and post the findings here.

Sounds like it's functioning as advertised. Keep us posted if you can.

until they break

I'm not going to post the pictures but I've broken many of them.

They just don't last

nothing but good huh, what does that mean? BTW you should say not needed for non pistons

that doesn't even make sense

If thats true, just sell those for a couple bucks

no it doesnt, it moves them to a different part of the rifle

it might do something (i think the testing method is BS btw) but what "is doing it"??

If its just the tail end, then thats all you need, if its the extra friction from the larger buffer, then sell that.

It might be the thing for pistons but really your reasons are BS.

I'll end up sending you one soon. You'll have to forgive me if I don't just jump on all these requests, I got A LOT. And I've given away A LOT of buffers to people and maybe, maybe 1% actually give any feedback. I understand this is a "cost of business", especially for this industry and type of product. But, please see my hesitation or at minimum, see my priority in doing further 3rd party testing. I do believe it is necessary and good for business. But I don't jump on these offers very fast at this point (I get them almost daily)...

Just to clarify, this is referring to the Kynshot buffer in that link, not my buffer.

Thanks Taylor, you said it better than I did.

I try to be nice, but it's apparent the more you talk, the less you understand about the recoil side of the AR15 and retail. And it's funny how youve become an expert on my product having never even held one, let alone shot one. I've put in the hard work, the countless hours, the countless rounds and tons of money. I've actually done the hands on R&D. You? I may not be an "expert" but I can assure you, I have more knowledge about this product than you do. And by the way it sounds, the AR recoil actions (which I have leaned ENORMOUS amounts about) and retail. But, knowing you have made up your mind already and thet im wasting my time repling to you, I'll humor you and do it anyway. Someone els may read this and it make senses. So...

1) "Nothing good huh" yes. You seem to be very gifted (maybe even a bit supernatural, you should look into that) know how awful my part is. Let me ask you a very specific question. What is "bad" about it? Other than it costs more than a mil spec buffer? Name one bad point. I've named several good points. And one of them being (and specifically my response of "only good" you are referring to and using outvof context) is better more even wear inside the upper receiver. Again, how is there any down side to that? If at worst, this was all my buffers did (it's not) that's a good thing. And why say it's not needed for piston guns? This alone is a grossly false statement. Piston guns were the main source of carrier tilt issues for years. People took a design (DI) and changed it and in some cases, it created issues. Carrier tilt being the most prominent. The actual design for the LARB buffer was for suppressed, piston driven SBRs. Now, the thing is, the benefits a piston gun get, a DI gun get as well. So, another win.


2) It makes no sense because you're not understanding it. There's a spring inside my buffer that holds the weigh captive to the rear. Your response was that this will INCREASE bolt bounce cause that spring will slam the weight back after the bolt closes into battery. I simply said a few things to discredit this. One, it works well, so it's obviously not a big deal. Two, what makes you think I just  grabbed some random spring and threw it in there? I went through many, many different spring rates, materials and lengths to get what I wanted and what worked. Being an expert on my product and recoil buffers, what's your thoughts on weight travel? How far do you consider to be the right amount? Well I can tell you that .225 is to much. And I can tell you that .065 is to little. I can also tell you that a 30inp music wire spring will not work, I won't tell what will. I can tell you that a spring on the back of the weight doesn't work and that a spring on either side doesn't work either. I've done the work. Have you?

3) OMG. It's CLEAR you have no idea what you are talking about. How can my part move the forces from one part of the rifle to the other? Please explain. The forces on the face of the buffer during firing with my LARB buffer are still there and still in the face of the buffer. I didn't (nor could unless I was some kind of wizard) move them. Again, please elaborate.

4) "But what is it doing" and "what's doing it"?.... simple, it softens the hit of the carrier during recoil. It's really that simple. You think my graphs at BS? First, that means less to me than my graphs mean to you. Second the people who actually spent money on it at least get to see a visual representation (proof) that the buffer IS doing something and it IS improving something. Maybe it is all BS, why don't you put some of your negative energy into trying to come up with a better way? You've made it clear you've ripped apart every component of my part and made your case (a very weak case I'll add) as to why my buffer is BS already.

5) I actually agree a bit here. Everyone needs to under stand that I never claimed my buffer was Gods gift the the AR15. I do make quite a few claims but realize this. The LARB doesn't just do one thing and it's not a AMAZING-gonna change you're life part. It does several things on a small scale that add up to an overall good product that you can feel immediately with the first round.
The tail cap alone works great. You could put that on a normal, off the shelf mil spec buffer and feel the difference immediately. BUT.... I have no plans to offer just the tail cap by itself at this point. Why? Cause I don't. I'm selling a complete part, there many, MANY other products on the market that you cannot pick and choose the parts. That's more of a retail and business decision. I'm sure you think my business decisions are BS too and that you would probably pay for just a cap if I sold them. Well, I don't care. You're not a customer and further more, you're actively trying to COST me money and turn people away from my product. And doing so just to be a dick I might add (unless we're all missing an actual legitimate argument you haven't revealed yet). I welcome constructive criticism! The guys who actually help or have honest questions? They email me or they simply man up and CALL me on the phone and we talk about it. Always an option.

6) And lastly, "it might be your thing for pistons"...
Didn't you literally just say I should tell people it's NOT for piston guns? Are you high? Really? I already explained this above. Piston guns are the reason we even have an "anti tilt" buffer market at all. But I have said over and over and over again, the benefits of keeping your BCG and buffer aligned (more so than what a mil spec buffer can do) has shown in my (yes, I know. More of my BS testing)  testing to be a very good thing in ANY AR system. DI or piston, both operating systems benefit from better wear patterns. Again, how is that a bad thing?

Just as a fun side note, I've done two full auto consecutive 100 round belts in my Shrike with the LARB. Just fun testing :)

Why not just talk to me directly?

I'd love for him to run it. I'd like to see how many rounds it can handle. Total weight of the LARB H is 4oz. If I remeber right it's actually just under 4oz, around 3.8/3.9oz. Somits right on par with a mil spec H buffer...

I think its pretty cool OP. I don't know that I'd buy one but I think that's badass you are getting creative and constructing functional shit for your rifles.

Can't knock a guy for that.  Vuurwapenblog does some cool comparative testing maybe drop him a line.

@TaylorWSO

Again, if by chance you have bought one (they have been available retail wise for 6 months) and are unhappy with it, send it back to me. I will gladly refund your purchase price and cover shipping.

I do like the fact that you stand by your product and you're proud of the fact you did this yourself on your own time. I wouldn't get discouraged at all considering the nature of this industry and it's consumers. i myself am looking forward to some third part perspectives and genuinely interested in this product.

Okay, my curiosity's piqued, I'll be the guinea pig (as I have been so many times in the past ). I've ordered one and will test it using a shot timer vs a std carbine buffer in my 16" middy shooting at an 8.5"x11" target at 50yds.

Tomac

Awesome. Please be patient, I sell them faster than I can make them. Batches shipmoutvwekly and new runs finish weekly. I look forward to your testing!

Looking forward to this!

So you're a expert are ya now? I don't have to have my hands on your panacea to know that it basically snake oil for "DI" guns


because emotional arguments dont make for great technical discussion.

I don't buy bandaids anymore.

You know what, I think I'm going to order one of these.
I shoot enough to know how my rifles feel and wear, so if this works BETTER than something I have already then right on.

Hope it turns out well, and it's nice that you're in here engaging and being civil with a skeptical crowd.

I never claimed to be an expert. In fact, (even by your use of my own quotes), I claim NOT to be. What I did claim is that I've done the foot work and gotten my own results. Have you?

Again, "snake oil for DI guns" is a your personal opinion. And I'll ask again, how is better/more even wear in any way "snake oil"? Please answer.

And your personal, non founded attacks DO make for good "technical discussion"? Really,  why are you getting emotional anyway? What have I or my product done to you? Where as, you are actively TRYING to harm my sales for no reason. I've answered every concern you have, only to be meet with more irrational replies. If you don't like my product, don't buy it. It really is that simple. I even offered to refund your money and shipping. But I'm assuming you don't have one right? Then how are you making these claims if you don't even have the product? I'm dumbfounded....