Barrels. LaRue vs Krieger

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Posted: 6/16/2016 12:02:51 AM EDT

Is there a clear cut winner or is this a matter of preference? I have a lower with a Geissele trigger and a Vortex scope laying around. All I need is a barrel and I will have a tack driver extraordinaire?

Posted: 6/16/2016 12:44:20 AM EDT

[#1]

Both are incredible barrels.
With the Larue on sale right now it is the better deal in my opinion and just as accurate.

Posted: 6/16/2016 4:03:41 AM EDT

[#2]

Nothing better than a Krieger. You still need match ammo and a quality scope mount. Close thread.

Posted: 6/16/2016 5:56:48 AM EDT

[#3]

Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

Posted: 6/16/2016 6:23:10 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

View Quote

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

Posted: 6/16/2016 7:01:17 AM EDT

[#5]

Quite a few Cen/SoTex Service Rifle guys have been getting Shilens turned by a local smith.

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:35:05 AM EDT

[#6]

I went with Bartlein

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:42:36 AM EDT

[#7]

There is no such thing as "best" at that level, as barrel to barrel variations within brand can confound comparisons, they are all so good with optimized ammo.

I'm still in load development for 100 yard bench with 52 grain flat base Berger Match Target bullets, one of the best .244" bullets for that distance. I may be able to get groups to shrink a bit more by finding a better node and adjusting seating depth. Cases were Lapua virgin match.

But, this target shot last Saturday in my just barely broken in Lilja M4 Navy 16" .223 Wylde 1:8 barrel suggests it is going to be a shooter. I don't think I would put Lilja's hand lapped barrels last on the list ("bringing up the rear").

.478" at 100 yards is .45 MOA.

Posted: 6/16/2016 9:12:29 AM EDT

[#8]

13 of the top 26 = 0.500

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1866618_LaRue_4th_Of_July_5_56_Barrel_Pricing_and_Great_Barrel_Giveaway_.html

SPR Division (AR/AK/FAL/M1A etc WITH magnified optics) at 100 yards........

1.Mike_P: Larue Stealth upper .223 Rem 18"/13.2" - Predatobr Black gold trigger + Atlas Bipod + A2 stock - 12x SWFA SS in LT104, 77gr FGMM, Groups 0.597 / 0.345 / 0.249 / 0.248 / 0.265 = avg .340 MOA

2.TheKnack: Homebuilt Larue 20" .223- Harris Bipod-Weaver 3x15-ADI 69 grain SMK: .512/.806/.272/.414/.602= avg. .521=.497 MOA

3. billyhill-, WOA Match upper 1-8" Wylde 223, RRA Lower, Weaver T-36, 21.5 gr Reloder 7 / 52 gr SMK / LC new brass / Rem 71/2, Groups: 0.425/0.515/0.469/0.716/0.801 =
4.702 /5 = 0.5404/1.047 = 0.516 MOA
5.Lennyo3034: Home build 223, Krieger 7.7 twist, March F 3-24X42, 77SMK over 8208. Groups: .568"/.526"/.661"/.503"/.581"= .568" average= .542 MOA

6.Mike_P: Larue Stealth barreled 20" 5.56 upper - Larue MBT Trigger + Atlas Bipod + PRS stock - 12x SWFA SS in LT104, 77gr FGMM, Groups 0.459 / 0.553 / 0.611 / 0.433 / 0.661 = avg .543 MOA

7. Mike_P: Larue 12" 5.56 Stealth with SilencerCo Specwar K - Bushnell 4.5-18x40 in an LT104, Norma 77gr Match (SMK), Groups 0.521 / 0.884 / 0.314 / 0.560 / 0.510 = avg .5578 MOA

8.Jaqufrost: Home build 5.56 - Larue 20" barrel, Larue BCG, Geissele High Speed Match- Bushnell XRS 4.5-30, H-59 reticle - 77gr SMK over 23.5gr Varget. Groups: .568"/.764"/.682"/.577"/.685" = avg. .655" =.585 MOA

9. Face454 20" Krieger Barrel home build .223, SWFA 20X scope, 77 SMK reloads. .383, .646, .752, .710, .670; avg .6322", .6038 MOA
10. Rowlock: AR15, Home built Rock River 24", 5.56 NATO. Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 4-12x40mm. Federal Gold Medal .223 Remington 69 grain BTHP. Groups: 0.6175" / 0.9050" / 0.3185" / 0.6170" / 0.8873" = avg. 0.6691" = 0.639 MOA

11. SpeyRod, SPR, LaRue Tobr 5.56, 77OTM Berger over 22.5gr Varget and Rem 7 1/2, (.649, 1.017, 1.039, .778, 1.072)=.911-.224=.687/1.047=.656moa

12.wiseanhyzer: Home-built 16" mid-length, DD S2W barrel, Redfield 2-7x32, LaRue MBT, 5.56 Specwar K, 50gr .223Groups: 0.4145, 0.7965, 1.0745, 0.6345, 0.5515 = 3.4715" / 5 = 0.6943 / 1.047 = 0.6631 MOA
13.Greenheadcaller, DPMS 24 BULL .223, Vortex Crossfire 1, reloads 50g vmax H322; Groups .844"/1.02"/.478"/.821"/.406" = Ave .7138 = .682 MOA

14.akethan LaRue OBR 16" 7.62 / IOR 4-14 MP8/ 168gr GMM .673/.979/.583/.939/.285=.6918

15. lefty-weaver-g19; home built rifle CLE/Krieger 18" mid length barrel, 12X swfa optic, Timney trigger, 77 smk, h4895, rem 7 1/2, lake city virgin; Groups: 0.404 / 0.894 / 0.640 / 0.919 / 0.767 = avg 0.725 = 0.692 MOA

16. Hollywood_Shooter: LaRue Tactical .308 - Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50 FFP G2DMR - 155gr HPBT SMK. 0.798"/0.792"/0.636"/0.647"/0.824" = 0.7394" AVG = 0.7062 MOA

17. SpeyRod, LaRue Stealth 18"/13.2 + LaRue Lower + Burris sig select 3-12, 77gr Berger over Varget, ..380/.877/.725/.940/.627= ..710 MOA

18. lb6r - Homebuild wyld .223 - Shillen 20" 1/8 twist, RRA NM upper, lower, trigger, harris brm, Gemtec Halo, Primary Arms 4x14 hudd, 77 gn Nosler 24gn varget.
Groups 1.18"/ .626"/ .632"/ .347"/ .956" =avg. .7482" = .714 moa
19.InfiniteGrim: Home Build 18" LW50 5.56 / SWFA 5-20HD / Nosler 77gr Handloads: .701/.782/.580/.768/.744 = .715 MOA
20.FALARAK: Self built Krieger .223 20" LaRue Rail, LaRue MBT trigger, LaRue Harris bipod, PRS - Leupold VariX-III 6.5x20 in LaRue LT-104 - 77gr SMK handload 24.5gr Varget CCIBR - Groups 1.017 / 0.823 / 0.792 / 0.573 / 0.576 = avg .756" = .723 MOA
21. lefty-weaver-g19. Built by me. Black hole weaponry custom barrel, vltor upper, timney trigger, SWFA fixed 10X mrad scope. Hand loaded 69 grain smk H4895 .811, .640, .361, 1.044, .834, average .738

22. Mike_P: Larue 18" 7.62 PredaTobr with SilencerCo Saker 7.62 - Vortex Razor HD 5-20x in an LT135, FG.MM 168gr, Fed AE M1A, BH 168gr Match, Groups 0.966 / 0.843 / 0.879 / 0.637 / 0.458 = avg .756 MOA

23. MORifleman, SPR Division, magnified optics Groups .953/.719/.336/1.272/.871 = .8302" average. MOA at 104 yards = .7623

24.GaJeep94YJ: Larue stealth upper 18", RRA lower with Larue MBT with the A2 stock. Nightforce 5.5-22x NP-R1. Winchester Match HPBT 69 gr., 0.829", 0.9995", 0.627", 0.813", 0.563" / 5 = 0.7663"

25. akethan 18" LaRue OBR .556 75gr Hornady .771 .462 .948 .846.814 = .768

26.Larue_Tactical tOBR 16" 556/ 77gr GMM .617 .623 .657 .969 .979= .769

View Quote

Read the link above.

Posted: 6/16/2016 9:53:35 AM EDT

[#9]

My LaRue 20" Stealth barrel is a shooter, so far it shoots loads that were developed in other barrels just as well as the original barrel or better. I'm just now about to start load development on 77 SMK and 55 Blitzkings just for this barrel.

Posted: 6/16/2016 9:57:34 AM EDT

[#10]

For the money it will be impossible to beat the LaRue currently. But if you want to go the custom barrel route lots of good choices exist. One thing about this custom barrels though you are not going to get pin point accuracy with off the shelf ammo and you will need to tailor the barrel to the load you intend to shoot to get that pinpoint accuracy. If you plan to buy off the shelf ammo LaRue is what you seek. If you plan to develop a very specific load and want to have a barrel built for that load then look into the custom barrels. I am not saying you cannot get pinpoint accuracy from the LaRue because you can develop a load for the barrel and come out with a damn fine rifle.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:11:17 AM EDT

[#11]

I own both and will say....it doesn't really matter. At some point, the limiting factor is not the barrel but instead rest of the rifle, or the inherent accuracy of the platform.

Get:
10 AR-15s with Bartlien barrels
10 AR-15s with Krieger barrels
10 AR-15s with Hawk Hill customs
10 AR-15s with Larue
10 AR-15s with brand XXXX high end barrel
Build all of them with the best possible methods

And average the respective accuracy results and I doubt they will be more than .1 MOA apart. Sure there will be outliers with certain barrels and a certain magical load, but take the averages and there will not be a significant difference.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:11:55 AM EDT

[#12]

The guys that acquired and installed the well over 10,000 MBT triggers we've built have a clue as to why our barrels shoot.

We keep really sharp rat tail files all over the shop.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:15:01 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
13 of the top 26 = 0.500

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1866618_LaRue_4th_Of_July_5_56_Barrel_Pricing_and_Great_Barrel_Giveaway_.html

Read the link above.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
13 of the top 26 = 0.500

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1866618_LaRue_4th_Of_July_5_56_Barrel_Pricing_and_Great_Barrel_Giveaway_.html

SPR Division (AR/AK/FAL/M1A etc WITH magnified optics) at 100 yards........

1.Mike_P: Larue Stealth upper .223 Rem 18"/13.2" - Predatobr Black gold trigger + Atlas Bipod + A2 stock - 12x SWFA SS in LT104, 77gr FGMM, Groups 0.597 / 0.345 / 0.249 / 0.248 / 0.265 = avg .340 MOA

2.TheKnack: Homebuilt Larue 20" .223- Harris Bipod-Weaver 3x15-ADI 69 grain SMK: .512/.806/.272/.414/.602= avg. .521=.497 MOA

3. billyhill-, WOA Match upper 1-8" Wylde 223, RRA Lower, Weaver T-36, 21.5 gr Reloder 7 / 52 gr SMK / LC new brass / Rem 71/2, Groups: 0.425/0.515/0.469/0.716/0.801 =
4.702 /5 = 0.5404/1.047 = 0.516 MOA
5.Lennyo3034: Home build 223, Krieger 7.7 twist, March F 3-24X42, 77SMK over 8208. Groups: .568"/.526"/.661"/.503"/.581"= .568" average= .542 MOA

6.Mike_P: Larue Stealth barreled 20" 5.56 upper - Larue MBT Trigger + Atlas Bipod + PRS stock - 12x SWFA SS in LT104, 77gr FGMM, Groups 0.459 / 0.553 / 0.611 / 0.433 / 0.661 = avg .543 MOA

7. Mike_P: Larue 12" 5.56 Stealth with SilencerCo Specwar K - Bushnell 4.5-18x40 in an LT104, Norma 77gr Match (SMK), Groups 0.521 / 0.884 / 0.314 / 0.560 / 0.510 = avg .5578 MOA

8.Jaqufrost: Home build 5.56 - Larue 20" barrel, Larue BCG, Geissele High Speed Match- Bushnell XRS 4.5-30, H-59 reticle - 77gr SMK over 23.5gr Varget. Groups: .568"/.764"/.682"/.577"/.685" = avg. .655" =.585 MOA

9. Face454 20" Krieger Barrel home build .223, SWFA 20X scope, 77 SMK reloads. .383, .646, .752, .710, .670; avg .6322", .6038 MOA
10. Rowlock: AR15, Home built Rock River 24", 5.56 NATO. Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 4-12x40mm. Federal Gold Medal .223 Remington 69 grain BTHP. Groups: 0.6175" / 0.9050" / 0.3185" / 0.6170" / 0.8873" = avg. 0.6691" = 0.639 MOA

11. SpeyRod, SPR, LaRue Tobr 5.56, 77OTM Berger over 22.5gr Varget and Rem 7 1/2, (.649, 1.017, 1.039, .778, 1.072)=.911-.224=.687/1.047=.656moa

12.wiseanhyzer: Home-built 16" mid-length, DD S2W barrel, Redfield 2-7x32, LaRue MBT, 5.56 Specwar K, 50gr .223Groups: 0.4145, 0.7965, 1.0745, 0.6345, 0.5515 = 3.4715" / 5 = 0.6943 / 1.047 = 0.6631 MOA
13.Greenheadcaller, DPMS 24 BULL .223, Vortex Crossfire 1, reloads 50g vmax H322; Groups .844"/1.02"/.478"/.821"/.406" = Ave .7138 = .682 MOA

14.akethan LaRue OBR 16" 7.62 / IOR 4-14 MP8/ 168gr GMM .673/.979/.583/.939/.285=.6918

15. lefty-weaver-g19; home built rifle CLE/Krieger 18" mid length barrel, 12X swfa optic, Timney trigger, 77 smk, h4895, rem 7 1/2, lake city virgin; Groups: 0.404 / 0.894 / 0.640 / 0.919 / 0.767 = avg 0.725 = 0.692 MOA

16. Hollywood_Shooter: LaRue Tactical .308 - Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50 FFP G2DMR - 155gr HPBT SMK. 0.798"/0.792"/0.636"/0.647"/0.824" = 0.7394" AVG = 0.7062 MOA

17. SpeyRod, LaRue Stealth 18"/13.2 + LaRue Lower + Burris sig select 3-12, 77gr Berger over Varget, ..380/.877/.725/.940/.627= ..710 MOA

18. lb6r - Homebuild wyld .223 - Shillen 20" 1/8 twist, RRA NM upper, lower, trigger, harris brm, Gemtec Halo, Primary Arms 4x14 hudd, 77 gn Nosler 24gn varget.
Groups 1.18"/ .626"/ .632"/ .347"/ .956" =avg. .7482" = .714 moa
19.InfiniteGrim: Home Build 18" LW50 5.56 / SWFA 5-20HD / Nosler 77gr Handloads: .701/.782/.580/.768/.744 = .715 MOA
20.FALARAK: Self built Krieger .223 20" LaRue Rail, LaRue MBT trigger, LaRue Harris bipod, PRS - Leupold VariX-III 6.5x20 in LaRue LT-104 - 77gr SMK handload 24.5gr Varget CCIBR - Groups 1.017 / 0.823 / 0.792 / 0.573 / 0.576 = avg .756" = .723 MOA
21. lefty-weaver-g19. Built by me. Black hole weaponry custom barrel, vltor upper, timney trigger, SWFA fixed 10X mrad scope. Hand loaded 69 grain smk H4895 .811, .640, .361, 1.044, .834, average .738

22. Mike_P: Larue 18" 7.62 PredaTobr with SilencerCo Saker 7.62 - Vortex Razor HD 5-20x in an LT135, FG.MM 168gr, Fed AE M1A, BH 168gr Match, Groups 0.966 / 0.843 / 0.879 / 0.637 / 0.458 = avg .756 MOA

23. MORifleman, SPR Division, magnified optics Groups .953/.719/.336/1.272/.871 = .8302" average. MOA at 104 yards = .7623

24.GaJeep94YJ: Larue stealth upper 18", RRA lower with Larue MBT with the A2 stock. Nightforce 5.5-22x NP-R1. Winchester Match HPBT 69 gr., 0.829", 0.9995", 0.627", 0.813", 0.563" / 5 = 0.7663"

25. akethan 18" LaRue OBR .556 75gr Hornady .771 .462 .948 .846.814 = .768

26.Larue_Tactical tOBR 16" 556/ 77gr GMM .617 .623 .657 .969 .979= .769

Read the link above.

That reminds me I need to go out and shoot this again. Unfortunately my go-to load of 77 TMK is not the most accurate at 100 yards, but I use it because it IS the most accurate (or more likely to get a hit) at 600 yards. I probably won't be able to until this summer's DMR match season is over and by then my Krieger may be getting burned out and I'll be on the Larue barrel I have sitting on deck.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:15:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
I own both and will say....it doesn't really matter. At some point, the limiting factor is not the barrel but instead rest of the rifle, or the inherent accuracy of the platform.

Get:
10 AR-15s with Bartlien barrels
10 AR-15s with Krieger barrels
10 AR-15s with Hawk Hill customs
10 AR-15s with Larue
10 AR-15s with brand XXXX high end barrel
Build all of them with the best possible methods

And average the respective accuracy results and I doubt they will be more than .1 MOA apart. Sure there will be outliers with certain barrels and a certain magical load, but take the averages and there will not be a significant difference.

View Quote

Usually the pink squishy thing pressing the trigger.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:23:21 AM EDT

[#15]

Somebody wrote us recently saying we provide the most accuracy per dollar ever available ... meh, he may be right.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:27:52 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Somebody wrote us recently saying we provide the most accuracy per dollar ever available ... meh, he may be right.

View Quote

I have fingerbanged a few LaRues and I have a lot of LT stuff I have accumulated over the past few months (thanks to your sales I am broke

) and I have to agree. I wish you would put your mounts on sale

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:42:52 AM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Somebody wrote us recently saying we provide the most accuracy per dollar ever available ... meh, he may be right.

View Quote

As far as barrels go, there is no contest. All the other ones listed above are $450+ and as I said, not a significant difference in performance.

FWIW, I recently cancelled a project that would have tested the accuracy of the platform. The cost of the barrel alone would have potentially hit 1k, although a custom carbide reamer would have been a significant part of that. The gunsmith I was working with dissuaded me on the project, saying he had already attempted the same project and found it was not worth the effort. That says a lot considering he stood to make a fair profit off me. He even took it more extreme than I would have, using lathe turned bullets and such.

Posted: 6/16/2016 11:28:14 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
Somebody wrote us recently saying we provide the most accuracy per dollar ever available ... meh, he may be right.

View Quote

I would agree. My 18" LaRue Tactical Stealth barrel is a real tackdriver. I love it. Of course, it helps that it is paired with a proper buffer system, muzzle device, and trigger. I could not complain about the price since I won it last year in the Christmas Giveaway.

I am also partial to Douglas, Criterion, and Krieger barrels for their accuracy.

Posted: 6/16/2016 11:35:07 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

View Quote

Most of the great shooting Krieger's I see posted are full bull barrels. The same for the others listed in your attachment.
With the Larue you get an equal or better shooting barrel that weighs and costs less. So who is high?

Here is an old article about Larue barrels.....I think the new ones they are putting out shoot even better as word is spreading fast.
http://kitup.military.com/2011/05/snipers-like-la-rue-objective-battle-rifle.html

Posted: 6/16/2016 1:20:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Say I choose LaRue, what are the differences in the Stealth and PredatAR? Will length effect accuracy?

Posted: 6/16/2016 1:39:16 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Say I choose LaRue, what are the differences in the Stealth and PredatAR? Will length effect accuracy?

View Quote

The difference between the stealth and the PredatAR is the thickness of the barrel, and the length will affect the velocity of the projectile exiting the barrel.

Posted: 6/16/2016 1:43:43 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Most of the great shooting Krieger's I see posted are full bull barrels. The same for the others listed in your attachment.
With the Larue you get an equal or better shooting barrel that weighs and costs less. So who is high?

Here is an old article about Larue barrels.....I think the new ones they are putting out shoot even better as word is spreading fast.
http://kitup.military.com/2011/05/snipers-like-la-rue-objective-battle-rifle.html

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

Most of the great shooting Krieger's I see posted are full bull barrels. The same for the others listed in your attachment.
With the Larue you get an equal or better shooting barrel that weighs and costs less. So who is high?

Here is an old article about Larue barrels.....I think the new ones they are putting out shoot even better as word is spreading fast.
http://kitup.military.com/2011/05/snipers-like-la-rue-objective-battle-rifle.html

FWIW, the Lilja barrel I posted the group above is not a bull barrel, nor is it a long barrel. It is the Navy SEAL Recon profile 16" 1:8 Wylde as developed by them for Crane. Beefier than a carbine barrel, but intended for combat use.. Weighs 2.18 lbs - about 35 ounces.

Posted: 6/16/2016 1:55:13 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

The difference between the stealth and the PredatAR is the thickness of the barrel, and the length will affect the velocity of the projectile exiting the barrel.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Say I choose LaRue, what are the differences in the Stealth and PredatAR? Will length effect accuracy?

The difference between the stealth and the PredatAR is the thickness of the barrel, and the length will affect the velocity of the projectile exiting the barrel.

So does one model preform better than the other? I've read that anything over 16" may not be optimal?

Posted: 6/16/2016 2:29:27 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Usually the pink squishy thing pressing the trigger.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I own both and will say....it doesn't really matter. At some point, the limiting factor is not the barrel but instead rest of the rifle, or the inherent accuracy of the platform.

Get:
10 AR-15s with Bartlien barrels
10 AR-15s with Krieger barrels
10 AR-15s with Hawk Hill customs
10 AR-15s with Larue
10 AR-15s with brand XXXX high end barrel
Build all of them with the best possible methods

And average the respective accuracy results and I doubt they will be more than .1 MOA apart. Sure there will be outliers with certain barrels and a certain magical load, but take the averages and there will not be a significant difference.

Usually the pink squishy thing pressing the trigger.

It's usually the indian, not the arrow.

Posted: 6/16/2016 3:04:17 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

So does one model preform better than the other? I've read that anything over 16" may not be optimal?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Say I choose LaRue, what are the differences in the Stealth and PredatAR? Will length effect accuracy?

The difference between the stealth and the PredatAR is the thickness of the barrel, and the length will affect the velocity of the projectile exiting the barrel.

So does one model preform better than the other? I've read that anything over 16" may not be optimal?

A heavier profile doesn't heat up as much as a lighter one. Lighter barrels will heat up quicker and you might get some shot stringing as a result. On the other hand, a lighter barrel cools quicker than a heavier profile. It depends on how you intend to deploy the gun. Are you planning on it being primarily a bench gun or similar shooting from a fixed position? In that case a heavier profile would be okay. If you plan on walking around a lot with gun as in a hunting scenario then lighter is better. The same goes for barrel length. As previously stated, barrel length gets you more velocity which can increase your effective range. An 18 or 20 inch barrel won't be more accurate than a 16. A 16 inch barrel is probably the sweet spot for an all around barrel. Put excellent glass on it and fit it with a good trigger and it will do anything an 18/20 inch barrel will do.

Posted: 6/16/2016 3:09:36 PM EDT

[#26]

Quick search of the SPR list (94 entrants) in the 1 MOA All Day Long Contest ...

24 of 94 are LaRue barrels (16 out of the Most Accurate 40)
6 of 94 are Krieger
3 of 94 Douglas
2 of 94 Shilen
1 of 94 Bartlein
0 of 94 Hawk Hill
0 of 94 Lilja

ETA - First time I've done a comparison search ...

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:01:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Quick search of the SPR list (94 entrants) in the 1 MOA All Day Long Contest ...

24 of 94 are LaRue barrels (16 out of the Most Accurate 40)
6 of 94 are Krieger
3 of 94 Douglas
2 of 94 Shilen
1 of 94 Bartlein
0 of 94 Hawk Hill
0 of 94 Lilja

ETA - First time I've done a comparison search ...

View Quote

Have you thought about offering contoured blanks similar to what other barrel makers sell?

I don't doubt the barrels are the hotness...but I think it would answer the mail on this question of blanks were sold and run against the competition in PRS world and similar?

There are a LOT of great barrel makers out there. The precision rifle blog goes into what the pro shooters are running...but everyone also knows that a lot of guys get free barrels too.

It would be interesting to see a barrel maker with the CNC skill and automation of LaRue, bringing barrels to that world and seeing how they stack up.

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:22:43 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Have you thought about offering contoured blanks similar to what other barrel makers sell?

I don't doubt the barrels are the hotness...but I think it would answer the mail on this question of blanks were sold and run against the competition in PRS world and similar?

There are a LOT of great barrel makers out there. The precision rifle blog goes into what the pro shooters are running...but everyone also knows that a lot of guys get free barrels too.

It would be interesting to see a barrel maker with the CNC skill and automation of LaRue, bringing barrels to that world and seeing how they stack up.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Quick search of the SPR list (94 entrants) in the 1 MOA All Day Long Contest ...

24 of 94 are LaRue barrels (16 out of the Most Accurate 40)
6 of 94 are Krieger
3 of 94 Douglas
2 of 94 Shilen
1 of 94 Bartlein
0 of 94 Hawk Hill
0 of 94 Lilja

ETA - First time I've done a comparison search ...

Have you thought about offering contoured blanks similar to what other barrel makers sell?

I don't doubt the barrels are the hotness...but I think it would answer the mail on this question of blanks were sold and run against the competition in PRS world and similar?

There are a LOT of great barrel makers out there. The precision rifle blog goes into what the pro shooters are running...but everyone also knows that a lot of guys get free barrels too.

It would be interesting to see a barrel maker with the CNC skill and automation of LaRue, bringing barrels to that world and seeing how they stack up.

LaRue does have a video of a military sniper competition where if I remember correctly the winners were shooting LaRue rifles?

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:32:20 PM EDT

[#29]

The statistically significant 10-shot groups pictured below were fired from AR-15s with Krieger barrels.

....

And for any Internet Commandos in our viewing audience tonight, here are some pics of a couple of statistically insignificant 3-shot groups fired from AR-15s with Krieger barrels.

....

Posted: 6/16/2016 8:37:59 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:24:01 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

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Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:26:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:48:26 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

He is comparing your barrels to Shilen and Douglas, which cost quite a bit more. That is nothing to sneeze at. Your barrels represent the best value in a button rifle barrel, no doubt.

Posted: 6/16/2016 10:54:24 PM EDT

[#34]

^^^

Not sure where you got your information as I don't allow folks in the barrel shop.

Posted: 6/16/2016 11:25:44 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

Most of them will not because they shoot with a solid front rest and a solid weighted Protektor type rear rest. Or they use sand bags or other support basically making the rifle part of the bench.
It's a different ballgame when you have to be in full control of your rifle when shooting the MOA challenge.

Posted: 6/17/2016 12:17:08 AM EDT

[#36]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/696352_Larue_vs_Lothar_Walther_vs_Green_Mountain_Shootout_Results.html

Larue barrels are on sale now! You can find these threads all over. The question is why would you not buy the Larue. Sale ends July 4th.

Posted: 6/17/2016 12:22:11 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

-snip-

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

Posted: 6/17/2016 1:36:50 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
-snip-

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

Posted: 6/17/2016 1:39:47 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

The MOA shoot off is great and all but you are aware that there are entire precision rifle sports? The PRS series? Not to mention the various benchrest competitions...

Your barrels are great. I have one on my TOBR. If you want to step up to the plate, spin up some 6.5 and 6mm blanks and send them out into the PRS competitions against barrels from the current makers that dominate those worlds.

It would be great to see more innovation and I'm sure LaRue barrels are top of their game.

Posted: 6/17/2016 8:25:48 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
-snip-

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

Amen. Perhaps the excellent performance of the Larue barrels in the Challenge is not only the quality of the barrel but also the incessant self-promotion of its maker. The combination produces greater volume in the number of entrants for the brand. Krieger, Bartlein, Shilen and Lilja may be as accurate or more so, but have fewer entrants and fanboys. I like Mark's stuff and own a bunch of his mounts, but the data in the Challenge is skewed by disproportionate participation perhaps driven by marketing. Nothing wrong with that, but something to consider. You can't make a barrel more accurate just by promoting it, but you can't claim another brand is less accurate just because the manufacturer is not out there beating its chest encouraging its users to participate in a relatively obscure competition.

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:09:48 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
-snip-

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

I'm the last guy Molon should be calling out. I have used my 3 multi-head CNC gundrills to build 10,000+ barrels in-house and at the present own 40% of the Top 40 SPR accuracy spots here on AR15.com. As of yet, I haven't seen any evidence of Molon's barrel making prowess.

I shoot 3-shot proof groups on all outgoing rifles. The 3-shot proof is on this board.

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:13:35 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:

Amen. Perhaps the excellent performance of the Larue barrels in the Challenge is not only the quality of the barrel but also the incessant self-promotion of its maker. The combination produces greater volume in the number of entrants for the brand. Krieger, Bartlein, Shilen and Lilja may be as accurate or more so, but have fewer entrants and fanboys. I like Mark's stuff and own a bunch of his mounts, but the data in the Challenge is skewed by disproportionate participation perhaps driven by marketing. Nothing wrong with that, but something to consider. You can't make a barrel more accurate just by promoting it, but you can't claim another brand is less accurate just because the manufacturer is not out there beating its chest encouraging its users to participate in a relatively obscure competition.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
-snip-

Drag out your sample-of-one Kreiger barrel and shoot the 1 MOA challenge with that sample-of-one barrel.

As for your insignificant 3-shot group comment, no team has shot more of both same barrel 5-shot and 3-shot groups from 100s, nay, 1000s of different barrels than I, and I know exactly how significant 3-shot groups are with my barrels.

Hell, I can see 3 nice 3-shot groups in each of your 10-shot groups.

Oh boy. Duck and cover, everyone.

Molon is the last guy I would call out in a precision rifle thread.

Amen. Perhaps the excellent performance of the Larue barrels in the Challenge is not only the quality of the barrel but also the incessant self-promotion of its maker. The combination produces greater volume in the number of entrants for the brand. Krieger, Bartlein, Shilen and Lilja may be as accurate or more so, but have fewer entrants and fanboys. I like Mark's stuff and own a bunch of his mounts, but the data in the Challenge is skewed by disproportionate participation perhaps driven by marketing. Nothing wrong with that, but something to consider. You can't make a barrel more accurate just by promoting it, but you can't claim another brand is less accurate just because the manufacturer is not out there beating its chest encouraging its users to participate in a relatively obscure competition.

Ah geez, now I suck for making accuracy affordable to the masses.

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:25:04 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm the last guy Molon should be calling out. I have used my 3 multi-head CNC gundrills to build 10,000+ barrels in-house and at the present own 40% of the Top 40 SPR accuracy spots here on AR15.com. As of yet, I haven't seen any evidence of Molon's barrel making prowess.

I shoot 3-shot proof groups on all outgoing rifles. The 3-shot proof is on this board.

View Quote

He didn't call you out. He expressed his preference, with his own data supporting it.

I'm fairly sure he's transposed 30 shot composite groups for every barrel he's reviewed. Several have been sub-MOA all day.

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:33:44 AM EDT

[#44]

Here is a fact. LaRue Tactical barrels rival their more expensive competitors for accuracy and dependability and they do it in a less expensive manner. Mark has something to brag about and deservedly so. LaRue Tactical takes pride in their ability to manufacture top of the line products and some of the best barrels made. They do this all in-house. Getting back to the OP's original question about the choice between LaRue Tactical vs. Krieger barrels, right now, the LaRue Tactical barrel hands down.

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:34:50 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Are you high?
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/11/21/precision-rifle-barrels/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/premium-barrels/

This.

It isn't even a contest. Bartlein is the premier barrel maker in the US hands down. They can do almost any twist, gain twist, left or right hand twist, bore diameter, and rifling profile you wish. Want a 3 groove left hand gain twist 30 cal with a tight bore of .298/.3075? They can do it...not sure why you would want it...but they can.

Next is kreiger. Then Brux...and the other premium barrels like Broughton, and so on with Lilja bringing up the rear.

Then you get to mass produced button barrels and similar...Douglas, Shilen, Larue, and so on.

Read the links above.

You are right, but you need to include Satern cut barrels in the top tier as well.

I tell ya what, skin a little meat off any of those and bring them on down to the 1 MOA for a shoot-off.

My I attend as witness to this shoot off? Or at least a spectator in awe?

Posted: 6/17/2016 9:44:47 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

He didn't call you out. He expressed his preference, with his own data supporting it.

I'm fairly sure he's transposed 30 shot composite groups for every barrel he's reviewed. Several have been sub-MOA all day.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm the last guy Molon should be calling out. I have used my 3 multi-head CNC gundrills to build 10,000+ barrels in-house and at the present own 40% of the Top 40 SPR accuracy spots here on AR15.com. As of yet, I haven't seen any evidence of Molon's barrel making prowess.

I shoot 3-shot proof groups on all outgoing rifles. The 3-shot proof is on this board.

He didn't call you out. He expressed his preference, with his own data supporting it.

I'm fairly sure he's transposed 30 shot composite groups for every barrel he's reviewed. Several have been sub-MOA all day.

He knows I espouse 3-shot groups and ship my rifles with 3-shot groups and sees me posting in this thread, hence his 3-shot dig.

For the record, I am privy to stuff, and none, and I do mean none of the long range warfighters I encounter shoot 10-shot groups. To them, it's an exercise in nothing but burning up half a box of cartridges. They want a consistent 2-shot rifle, 1st shot is to get a wind correction, 2nd shot, if needed is to implement the wind correction.

ETA - it is nice having Molon back though. He abandoned ARFcom's ship for was it years (?) for one of the high-brow forums for the thinkers

, but couldn't take my constant posting of 3-shot groups so, against his principles, came back to defend his 10-shot legacy. Now he's bombarding the board with 10 - 30 shot groups trying to gain back lost legacy ground. It's fun and I'm glad I spooked him out of hiding.

Posted: 6/17/2016 10:30:31 AM EDT

[#47]

A good barrel's a good barrel. There are lots of average, ho-hum, and bad barrels.

An author writing about hammer-forged barrels asked Ruger for a couple of blanks and they sent them. He had them profiled and chambered for National Match competition and found they performed sub-minute.

Interesting article with pics about hammer forged barrels. From Precision Shooting magazine, November 2005.

http://technology.calumet.purdue.edu/met/higley/Precision%20Shooting%20Magazine%20-%20November-%202005%20(Vol_%2053%20-%20No_%207).htm

"About the Authors

Vern Briggs is the Forging Process Engineer at Sturm, Ruger & Company, Newport, New Hampshire where he is responsible for barrel production.

James Higley is a Professor of Mechanical Engineering Technology at Purdue University Calumet, Hammond, Indiana where he teaches courses in design and manufacturing."
_______________

Excerpt:

"Hammer forging was developed in Europe and has been used there for about 30 years longer than in the US, so forged barrels are widely accepted and advertised by European gun manufacturers. In the US, hammer forging has long been considered one of those black arts of the gun making trade, and the fact that only a few dozen people nationwide actually use this machinery compounds the mystery (eight people make ALL of Ruger’s forged barrels). However, as we have attempted to show in this article, hammer forging makes dimensionally uniform, smooth barrels which tend to err on the side of a properly tapered bore, and the process makes barrels quickly. Because of all of these advantages, most round factory barrels, including shotgun barrels, are hammer forged.

Why don’t custom gunsmiths use hammer forged barrels? Startup costs. The million dollars per forging machine price tag deters small users. And, since the factories typically use their entire production capacity internally, custom gunsmiths simply can’t get hammer forged blanks easily. "

View Quote

I've seen some AR/M16 barrels shoot amazing groups for about 1200 rounds -- then completely fall apart. Distressing to watch a guy with awesome confidence see his weapon shit the bed while observed and documented by his coach. Even worse when it's in competition against Marines.

No one wants that in combat.

Posted: 6/17/2016 10:46:30 AM EDT

[#48]

^^^

When a chunk of the throat goes overboard, it takes accuracy with it.

Posted: 6/17/2016 11:03:23 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here is a fact. LaRue Tactical barrels rival their more expensive competitors for accuracy and dependability and they do it in a less expensive manner. Mark has something to brag about and deservedly so. LaRue Tactical takes pride in their ability to manufacture top of the line products and some of the best barrels made. They do this all in-house. Getting back to the OP's original question about the choice between LaRue Tactical vs. Krieger barrels, right now, the LaRue Tactical barrel hands down.

View Quote

Posted: 6/17/2016 11:12:12 AM EDT

[#50]

Well, heck. I may buy a Stealth before they go off sale.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Barrels. LaRue vs Krieger (Page 1 of 10)

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