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Posted: 4/10/2016 4:51:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Why????
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Posted: 4/10/2016 4:54:27 PM EDT
[#2]
No regrets here. There's really no reason to do it....or not to do it really. It only comes in handy if you plan on swapping stocks out. Don't forget to use a dab of grease to prevent corrosion and to trim your spring.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 4:54:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Some MFrs already do it...Aero Percision if i'm not mistaken does.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 5:11:20 PM EDT
[#4]
I started doing it a while back, and will continue to do so. Pretty easy common sense mod. Just go slow on the tap, back it out often and lube it. It would break pretty easily.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 5:27:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Not a horrible idea, but not something I would ever do. I have swapped around stocks and have never had an issue with losing either the spring or detent.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 5:36:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Good idea.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 5:39:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Not something I am ever going to do, the design of the rifle does not require or need it.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 5:50:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Always seemed like an extra step cutting the spring down a little and putting the set screw in. Finding the allen wrench just ads to it.. Just too easy to put the spring in after the last rotation and drop the plate down.
I have a couple that came threaded but never used it. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 6:06:32 PM EDT
[#10]
I always polish the triggers, I never tap the take down.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 6:26:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Still not sure why one would do this. Is it because you're not skilled enough to not loose the spring???
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Posted: 4/10/2016 6:36:53 PM EDT
[#12]
I was a Marine Corps Armorer and have assembled and taken apart more rifles than most members on here combined. It's just out of convenience for myself.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 7:40:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still not sure why one would do this. Is it because you're not skilled enough to not loose the spring??? |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 7:55:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Is it because you're not skilled enough to not loose the spring Maybe not skilled enough to not "loose" the spring, but skilled enough to know when to use lose vs. loose... ;) It just seems to me like a very easy way to capture the spring, and never have to worry about it again...makes having to deal with it during stock/buffer tube changes an absolute non-issue. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 7:57:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe not skilled enough to not "loose" the spring, but skilled enough to know when to use lose vs. loose... ;) It just seems to me like a very easy way to capture the spring, and never have to worry about it again...makes having to deal with it during stock/buffer tube changes an absolute non-issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it because you're not skilled enough to not loose the spring Maybe not skilled enough to not "loose" the spring, but skilled enough to know when to use lose vs. loose... ;) It just seems to me like a very easy way to capture the spring, and never have to worry about it again...makes having to deal with it during stock/buffer tube changes an absolute non-issue. I have never worried about since I picked up my first AR platform rifle in 1979. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 8:01:13 PM EDT
[#16]
I have never worried about since I picked up my first AR platform rifle in 1979. Honestly, I never did either until I built a few pistol AR's (and found myself trying out a few different stock configurations). |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 8:03:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, I never did either until I built a few pistol AR's (and found myself trying out a few different stock configurations). Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never worried about since I picked up my first AR platform rifle in 1979. Honestly, I never did either until I built a few pistol AR's (and found myself trying out a few different stock configurations). I can understand that, I have never been interested in the AR's pistol configurations, we didn't use a lot of those in the Army. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 9:23:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was a Marine Corps Armorer and have assembled and taken apart more rifles than most members on here combined. It's just out of convenience for myself. Exactly, I was an armorer for my agency.Went to the Colt factory training - as we used them. Between the classes, the regular cleanings and the monthly, quarterly, semi and yearly required dis-assembly - testing and re-assembly, I have done it a few times. As far as my own guns - they all get it and a few other bits of attention. Just one of those things. Not required, just makes life easier. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 9:28:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Spikes does it, too.
I really appreciate it... especially on pistols when I'm switching to between tubes, trying to find something that works for me. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 10:10:58 PM EDT
[#20]
I do all mine as well.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 10:47:57 PM EDT
[#21]
I have done all of mine. An easy modification.
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Posted: 4/10/2016 11:19:03 PM EDT
[#22]
It is a convenience item for most folks. For me it is a requirement in that every time a change a stock I end up bending the spring.
Notes: 1) use a lube/grease on the tap. 2) clean out the hole thoroughly (gun/brake spray, then compressed air from the front of the detent/spring channel) 3) lube the hole/detent/spring but use anti-seize on the set screw threads in that the set screw is steel and the lower is aluminum. |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 11:22:35 PM EDT
[#23]
When I change stocks, I just pull down on the retaining pin and pull the stock completely off.
Are some of you honestly constantly completely changing entire stock systems, including the buffer and locking plate, that this is a serious issue? |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 11:30:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I change stocks, I just pull down on the retaining pin and pull the stock completely off. Are some of you honestly constantly completely changing entire stock systems, including the buffer and locking plate, that this is a serious issue? Early on my first AR was a RRA with a Comm receiver extension. I swapped that out to a RRA Entry stock. When I realized I wanted adjustable I went with a mil spec extension and a CTR. So yes, I swapped stocks out x3 on that one. I usually throw on a pistol extension on there and shoot my pistol upper and take pics of them in case I want to go back to pistol later. Cheap insurance because I like short barrel rifles. I do have a CAR or M4 stock set laying around to complete lowers to get them up and running and swap something else on later if I get the itch to build a 16". |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 11:30:54 PM EDT
[#25]
I tap my lowers. It takes about 10 seconds . The end user has the choice to use it or not. I have seen a lot of those springs folded and squashed. Not every one is proficient at assembling a lower. Craig
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Posted: 4/11/2016 2:33:38 AM EDT
[#26]
No regerts here.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 7:03:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Just picked up a handful of 4-40 plug screws, and have a few stripped lowers laying around...any reason not to go ahead and tap the rear takedown detent pin holes? I understand it may be pointless to do on lowers already assembled, but seems like it may make future assembly that much easier on a stripped lower. Anyone regret doing it? Two things: 1) Beware of corrosion. The hard anodized crust on the aluminum is not conductive. One of the important things the anodized coating does besides wear resistance is protect against having an electrical bond between the steel parts and the aluminum parts and so galvanic corrosion is not possible. Tapping the hole will allow a very good electrical bond between the aluminum receiver and steel screw. You will have to deal with the resultant corrosion. 2) The spring should be shortened, preferably the same amount as the length of the set-screw. And, a third comment: Just how hard is it to assemble these things and not kink the spring? |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 8:44:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Now I know that almost all of us posting responses have lots of experience putting AR's together and we also have lots of spare parts laying around. But let's suppose there is someone not so experienced with AR's who has his/her new rifle and has decided to do some upgrades. They want to change that fixed stock because they moved out of the commie state of California and they are going to upgrade to the latest, greatest collapsible stock. There is more than a slight chance that they will lose that spring during the change out. If they do not put an eye out because they are not wearing safety glasses they still have to order a $1 part and pay $5 shipping and wait a week before they can put their rifle back together. In general, no one usually removes the front take down/pivot pin. It seems to my this modification should just be standard from the factory. I cannot think of a practical reason it should not. There is little chance you would need to change out your rear take down pin quickly. Just not that big of a deal either way. Seems like a simple improvement that should be done at the factory.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 8:49:51 AM EDT
[#29]
I did it on a couple lowers when it was "new/cool", then I thought it was stupid so I stopped
besides "convenience" it does nothing, and if you into water with a steel plug on bare aluminum, you can/will have corrosion issues. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 9:25:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Wife's billet lower came with that hole tapped. I pitched the set screw in the trash and put it together the regular way.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 9:37:06 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Always seemed like an extra step cutting the spring down a little and putting the set screw in. Finding the allen wrench just ads to it.. Just too easy to put the spring in after the last rotation and drop the plate down. I have a couple that came threaded but never used it. If the buffer tube has enough threads, then you are right. But fully half the mil spec buffer tubes I've seen do not have enough thread. By the time you capture the buffer detent, the endplate is too close to install the takedown detent and spring. So you have to install these while you still have another turn or 2 to go on the tube. Doing this without kinking and ruining the spring can be difficult. So I'm all for this change. I just got a lower made by New Frontier Armory. In addition to a plug screw for the takedown detent, it also has a threaded boltstop pin instead of a roll pin. I see both as positive changes. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 9:50:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tap my lowers. It takes about 10 seconds . The end user has the choice to use it or not. I have seen a lot of those springs folded and squashed. Not every one is proficient at assembling a lower. Craig I also think it's a great idea. If the buffer tube has as many full threads as it "should" have then there is no excuse for ruining a spring like this. However, I have seen a sizable percentage of buffer tubes that did not have enough threads to capture the buffer detent and still have enough room to insert the takedown detent spring. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 9:50:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the buffer tube has enough threads, then you are right. But fully half the mil spec buffer tubes I've seen do not have enough thread. By the time you capture the buffer detent, the endplate is too close to install the takedown detent and spring. So you have to install these while you still have another turn or 2 to go on the tube. Doing this without kinking and ruining the spring can be difficult. So I'm all for this change. I just got a lower made by New Frontier Armory. In addition to a plug screw for the takedown detent, it also has a threaded boltstop pin instead of a roll pin. I see both as positive changes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Always seemed like an extra step cutting the spring down a little and putting the set screw in. Finding the allen wrench just ads to it.. Just too easy to put the spring in after the last rotation and drop the plate down. I have a couple that came threaded but never used it. If the buffer tube has enough threads, then you are right. But fully half the mil spec buffer tubes I've seen do not have enough thread. By the time you capture the buffer detent, the endplate is too close to install the takedown detent and spring. So you have to install these while you still have another turn or 2 to go on the tube. Doing this without kinking and ruining the spring can be difficult. So I'm all for this change. I just got a lower made by New Frontier Armory. In addition to a plug screw for the takedown detent, it also has a threaded boltstop pin instead of a roll pin. I see both as positive changes. You hardly need any thread at all, to turn the plate out of the way. And I have never had any tubes that didn't have enough thread, even if you did need to have it backed a way off. When I install them, I insert the detent, screw the buffer tube all the way in to where it needs to be, then a tiny bit more, insert the spring, then line the tube back up while I push on the spring with my thumb. Right as my thumb is pushed out of the way, the locking plate slides over the spring. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 10:27:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Oh my!...I'll admit here that I never realized or heard about this issue of threading the takedown pivot detent hole until now. Honest...I haven't been living in a cave...LOL! Understanding what the modification does, it seems like one of those things that is understandably preferential with a no-harm-no-foul end game. And if a person obtains a lower with the hole already threaded by a previous user or manufacturer, the owner can still use either method of spring capture. Sounds like a "don't get your shorts in a wad", win-win to me.
On the corrosion issue of the steel allen screw...just use a quality grade antiseize applied liberally to the threads, and one should never have a problem. It acts as an insulating agent and does an amazing job of fighting corrosion at this interface. Having applied this method over a lifetime of uses with steel fasteners in aluminum in automotive, motorcycle, and bicycle applications, I've seen it work with no downside. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 11:59:27 AM EDT
[#35]
I tapped the rear takedown hole on the last two rifles I built. I don't ever mess with polishing the triggers though. Don't want to risk screwing something up.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 12:35:39 PM EDT
[#36]
A small inexpensive tap, 100 screws for a $3 on Ebay and about 2 minutes time. I do all mine as well as my friends and still have 75 screws left. Yes, I only bent a spring on my first stock install and then learned the correct procedure but I still like the screw idea. The .050 allen wrench is not in all wrench kits though, just sayin.
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Posted: 4/11/2016 1:22:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly, I was an armorer for my agency.Went to the Colt factory training - as we used them. Between the classes, the regular cleanings and the monthly, quarterly, semi and yearly required dis-assembly - testing and re-assembly, I have done it a few times. As far as my own guns - they all get it and a few other bits of attention. Just one of those things. Not required, just makes life easier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was a Marine Corps Armorer and have assembled and taken apart more rifles than most members on here combined. It's just out of convenience for myself. Exactly, I was an armorer for my agency.Went to the Colt factory training - as we used them. Between the classes, the regular cleanings and the monthly, quarterly, semi and yearly required dis-assembly - testing and re-assembly, I have done it a few times. As far as my own guns - they all get it and a few other bits of attention. Just one of those things. Not required, just makes life easier. Serious question here: when you guys did your annuals on the guns you would remove the buffer tube from the receiver? I get doing an armorer check on the gun but I can't imagine removing the buffer tube unless you were going from fixed stock to adjustable or vice versa. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 3:23:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Just tapped three of the lowers, it was easier than expected...
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Posted: 4/11/2016 5:51:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question here: when you guys did your annuals on the guns you would remove the buffer tube from the receiver? I get doing an armorer check on the gun but I can't imagine removing the buffer tube unless you were going from fixed stock to adjustable or vice versa. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was a Marine Corps Armorer and have assembled and taken apart more rifles than most members on here combined. It's just out of convenience for myself. Exactly, I was an armorer for my agency.Went to the Colt factory training - as we used them. Between the classes, the regular cleanings and the monthly, quarterly, semi and yearly required dis-assembly - testing and re-assembly, I have done it a few times. As far as my own guns - they all get it and a few other bits of attention. Just one of those things. Not required, just makes life easier. Serious question here: when you guys did your annuals on the guns you would remove the buffer tube from the receiver? I get doing an armorer check on the gun but I can't imagine removing the buffer tube unless you were going from fixed stock to adjustable or vice versa. We had dailies, weeklies, monthlies, quarterlies, semi annuals, and annuals. Things wear out in the real combat world faster than you think. Those springs get worn out. Grunts try to take them apart, Corpsmen will use 9 feet of gauze as a cleaning patch, ect. I would take apart up to 2000 M4 and M16A4 a month. I was in an armory 20 hours a day on a good day. I think I know a little about these rifles. My example on why I tap each of my lowers is for my ease and personal use. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 6:41:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did it on a couple lowers when it was "new/cool", then I thought it was stupid so I stopped besides "convenience" it does nothing, and if you into water with a steel plug on bare aluminum, you can/will have corrosion issues. Not if you grease it. |
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Posted: 4/11/2016 6:50:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serious question here: when you guys did your annuals on the guns you would remove the buffer tube from the receiver? I get doing an armorer check on the gun but I can't imagine removing the buffer tube unless you were going from fixed stock to adjustable or vice versa. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was a Marine Corps Armorer and have assembled and taken apart more rifles than most members on here combined. It's just out of convenience for myself. Exactly, I was an armorer for my agency.Went to the Colt factory training - as we used them. Between the classes, the regular cleanings and the monthly, quarterly, semi and yearly required dis-assembly - testing and re-assembly, I have done it a few times. As far as my own guns - they all get it and a few other bits of attention. Just one of those things. Not required, just makes life easier. Serious question here: when you guys did your annuals on the guns you would remove the buffer tube from the receiver? I get doing an armorer check on the gun but I can't imagine removing the buffer tube unless you were going from fixed stock to adjustable or vice versa. Have you ever worked for a .gov? Yes, several times a year it came off. Did it really need to? No. But since that was the standard, that's what I did. Probably why all of my inspections, over many years, were perfect. Crazy, but that's how it works. No, I did not modify the weapons in any manner. Had I needed to testify in court (only sued once and with my affidavit and records I never had to testify in court), I would get crucified if another 'expert' found out I had changed anything from the factory set up. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:30:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Well, I have done a few of these now, and the biggest benefit is being able completely assemble the lower (save for the buffer retaining pin/spring) without having a stock or buffer tube assembly.
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