User Panel
Posted: 3/16/2014 2:38:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
When discussing the Mk 18 / CQBR program, we can divide the history and discussion in to two distinct categories: 1) The weapon system itself / upper receiver supplied and 2) the group of accessories deployed on said weapon systems (SOPMOD).
---------- Mk 18 Mod 0 / CQBR The M4 carbine and M16 are not ideally suited for all missions, so it was proposed that the modularity of the M16 series would allow a user to replace the upper receiver of an existing weapon with one more suitable to the task. One of two proposed special mission receivers that were planned for inclusion into the SOPMOD Block II kit, the CQBR has taken off on its own. Like the proposed Special Purpose Receiver, the Close Quarters Battle Receiver has been more or less taken on by the Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane Division (often referred to as NSWC-Crane or just "Crane") as its own project following the CQBR's removal from the SOPMOD program. Just as the Special Purpose Receiver morphed into the Special Purpose Rifle, and was type-classified as Mk 12 Mod 0/1, the complete CQBR-equipped carbine has been type-classified as the Mk 18 Mod 0. The purpose of the CQBR remains to provide operators with a weapon of submachine gun size, but firing a rifle cartridge, for scenarios such as VIP protection, urban warfare, and other close quarters battle (CQB) situations. The CQBR is designed to provide improvement over previous AR-15/M16-type weapons in this category. The CQBR is usually issued as a complete weapon system, and not just an upper receiver. The CQBR was once only available to Naval Special Warfare units, but the Mk 18 Mod 0 has become general issue for Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure (VBSS) missions and, as of 2006, for NCIS agents deploying to active combat zones.[citation needed] The Mk 18 is also used by the Coast Guard's Tactical Law Enforcement Teams, Maritime Safety and Security Teams, and Maritime Security Response Team and the United States Navy's Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) Operators. Wikipedia has a good article with sources on the original CQBR/Mk 18 Mod 0 and its development. ---------- SOPMOD The SOPMOD Program Management Office at NSWC Crane, IN, provides standardized, versatile weapons accessories to meet needs across SOF mission scenarios. These accessories increase operator survivability and lethality by enhanced weapon performance, target acquisition, signature suppression, and fire control. The CQBR itself was originally part of the SOPMOD program as an accessory replacement upper receiver for the M4. However it was eventually separated out into its own project. SOPMOD accessories for the M4/CQBR originally included things like the KAC RIS/RAS, SOPMOD stock, KAC M4QD suppressor, AN/PEQ-2 illuminator/laser, ECOS-N red dot, ACOG, etc The SOPMOD program has gone through multiple minor and major evolutions throughout its lifetime. The most significant is commonly defined as "Block II" and included the introduction/replacement of accessories that met the updated needs of operators. The most visually significant "Block II" accessory is probably the replacement of the KAC rail/FSB with the Daniel Defense RIS II free float rail with low-profile gas block. Other updates include things like the Surefire SOCOM sound suppressor, EOTech RDS (553/SU-231 & EXPS 3-0/SU-231a), LA-5/PEQ ATPIAL, etc ---------- Link to docs and photo albums Presentation on CQBR from Crane Operator's Manual for Mk 18 Mod 0 SOPMOD Program Overview presentation from Crane Photo Album of Mk 18 Mod 0 Photo Album of CQBR with SOPMOD Block II accessories ---------- Because of the long history of both the CQBR/Mk 18 and SOPMOD programs, it's common to find weapons with various mixed configurations in the field, all depending on what time and unit the weapon system belongs to. Below are a few examples with descriptions to illustrate this. Example of a Mk 18 Mod 0 in as-issued configuration including: M16A1 surplus lower receiver, SOPMOD buttstock, KAC RIS, KAC M4QD flash hider, Aimpoint Comp M2 in Wilcox mount, LMT rear fixed sight, CQD rear sling plate. NSW Operator CQBRs with original SOPMOD accessories including KAC M4QD sound suppressor and AN/PEQ-2 IR Illuminator/Laser. Member of a Combat Camera team with a CQBR with KAC RAS and M4QD flash hider but with other updated accessories from the "Block II" SOPMOD kit including SU-231a (EOTech EXPS 3-0), EOTech G33 Magnifier, LA-5/PEQ ATPIAL, Insight WMX-200. Good example of "early" CQBR with SOPMOD Block II accessories including SU-231 (EOTech 553) and SU-233 (Insight M3x weaponlight). Example of a more "modern" CQBR with SOPMOD Block II accessories including the updated SU-231a (EOTech EXPS 3-0) and Insight WMX-200 weaponlight. Many times certain configurations are common within certain branches/groups. Here a Marine Raider is seen with a CQBR with an AN/PEQ-16 (USMC issued vs. the LA-5/PEQ SOCOM issued ATPIAL) and KAC NT4 suppressor (vs. the current Surefire SOCOM suppressor). ---------- Building a clone If you're interested in building a "clone" of a Mk 18 or CQBR equipped M4A1, here is a basic parts list to use as a guide and get you started. This list is not exhaustive and see the * note above regarding personalized accessories. | Mk 18 Mod 0 | M4A1 CQBR Block I | M4A1 CQBR Block II Lower Receiver | Mil-spec forged A1 | Mil-spec forged A2 | Mil-spec forged A2 Stock | Gen 1 SOPMOD (Black) | M4, CAR, SOPMOD, CTR & others | M4, CAR, SOPMOD, CTR & others Pistol Grip | A1 | A2, ERGO & others | A2, ERGO & others Rear Sling Plate | CQD | CQD | CQD Upper Receiver | Mil-spec forged M4 profile | Mil-spec forged M4 profile | Mil-spec forged M4 profile Barrel | 10.3" | 10.3" | 10.3" Rail | KAC RIS | KAC RAS | DD Mk18 RIS II (FDE) Rear BUIS | LMT Fixed | LMT Fixed, MATECH, & others | MATECH, KAC 300m, & others Front Sight | A2 FSB | A2 FSB | KAC 99051 BUIS (Taupe) Front Sling Attachment | FSB Sling Swivel | FSB Sling Swivel | CQD Muzzle Device | KAC M4QD | KAC M4QD | SureFire FH-556-RC Supressor | None | KAC QDSS NT4 | SureFire SOCOM556-RC (FDE) LAM | None | PEQ-2 | LA-5 Weaponlight | SureFire M962 | SureFire M952, M962 | Insight M3X (Tan), Insight WMX200 (Bronze) Optic | Aimpoint Comp M2 in Wilcox Mount | Aimpoint Comp M2 in QRP Mount, ACOG | EOTech 553 (Tan), EOTech EXPS3-0 (Tan), ELCAN 1-4x (FDE) ---------- Link to previous threads Previous Mk 18 / CQBR Thread Part I Previous Mk 18 / CQBR Thread Part II |
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Originally Posted By JJREA:
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. You can't be grinding them finger bumps off and still be clone correct. Just teasing. Very nice. I've never seen brown Vans before. In fact, I haven't seen too many people wearing Vans at all. View Quote |
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Squire
"Our Costa, who art in Wyoming, thy beard come, thy will be done on the range as it is on the internet" ozzie839 I survived ARFbortion2016 and all I got was this stupid sigline |
Originally Posted By Virginia_Shooter:
Hey Mk18 crew! Wanted to ask about the "correctness" of a couple items. I doubt my build will ever actually achieve perfect clone status, but I'm trying to keep it somewhat authentic. Asking about the below items, and how "close" they are to being correct or seen/used in the field. X300 with or without pressure switch kit AXTS raptor charging handle Black KAC front sight Aimpoint T1 Thanks for the help! Hopefully post some pics up soon. View Quote All of those have been seen "in the wild" so you're good to go from that aspect. |
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Originally Posted By Virginia_Shooter:
Hey Mk18 crew! Wanted to ask about the "correctness" of a couple items. I doubt my build will ever actually achieve perfect clone status, but I'm trying to keep it somewhat authentic. Asking about the below items, and how "close" they are to being correct or seen/used in the field. X300 with or without pressure switch kit AXTS raptor charging handle Black KAC front sight Aimpoint T1 Thanks for the help! Hopefully post some pics up soon. View Quote Lights have some leeway, but most lean towards 600 series of some sort due to availability of the correct versions. X300 doesn't seem in the spirit IMO. As mentioned, Raptors seen ITW but I think CD mentioned it was unit buy? Black KAC - hey if it's a 99051 just paint it :). But just say NO to a micro T1, seen ITW also, see page 1 pics |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
All depends if you wanna build an as issued gun or a gun with a bunch of personal bought items on it. The only raptors seen we're donated to a national guard SF unit by AXTS or Rainier
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Does the surefire muzzle brake break the mk18 correctness code?
I keep seeing flash hiders here |
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Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
- X300 is just fine and is definitely in the spirit IMO. It's actually a really nice companion to the sopmod stuff (low profile, same length as atpial, etc…) (pic below) - Since charging handle is such an easily replaceable personal part, pretty much anything reasonably goes here. If you like the raptor, run it. - When CD was working as armorer and posting info for us, he mentioned a few times that BUIS he's installing is whatever is in inventory. There was at least one time where he was putting black ones on. You're GTG. - T1 isn't a SOPMOD optic but is pretty common in the "personal replacement" or "unit purchase" world especially since they're already in the system and have an NSN. I think Force Recon runs them with GDI mounts. Larue mount also seems to be common. (X300) http://i.imgur.com/3410klT.jpg View Quote I stand corrected on the X300 :).. Just seemed to "modern" to me for some reason... |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
Originally Posted By 78Staff:
Surefire SF4P is correct for BKII, most run SF3P instead since 4P can be hard to find and $$. http://i.imgur.com/Dlt11y2l.jpg Also the KAC FH's for NT4 use correct on Mod0/BKI as well so you will see a lot of them. http://i.imgur.com/8CLlOX4l.jpg View Quote I heard the 4 prongs were less effective compared to the 3 prongs.. and the only reason the military uses them is because they had a contract for the 4 prongers for whatever reason. Man.. I feel like if my mk18 isn't clone correct what's the point? I'd almost rather have a 11.5 |
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Originally Posted By Phildo:
I heard the 4 prongs were less effective compared to the 3 prongs.. and the only reason the military uses them is because they had a contract for the 4 prongers for whatever reason. Man.. I feel like if my mk18 isn't clone correct what's the point? I'd almost rather have a 11.5 View Quote Right according to Surefire they say the 3-prong works just as well (or maybe slightly better) than the 4-prong, but they had to supply 4p's due to the requirements of the contract, yeah. From Augee... The "story" is that the four prong variant was designed and manufactured at the request of the military in conjunction with the SOCOM-RC suppressor for the SOPMOD program. Before the commercial release, Surefire redesigned the flash suppressor mount as a three-prong design, known as the SF3P, which is supposed to be slightly more efficient at eliminating flash, as well as having stronger tines. While the FH556RC was never released for commercial sales, because the military contract specifications were for the four pronged version, it is supposedly produced for military contracts only. Because of this, there are extremely few in civilian hands, though they show up from time to time. ~Augee |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
If you're going to shoot suppressed all the time I would just buy a brake to use as a sacrificial baffle. Just don't take your suppressor off so we'll know
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Originally Posted By 78Staff:
Surefire SF4P is correct for BKII, most run SF3P instead since 4P can be hard to find and $$. http://i.imgur.com/Dlt11y2l.jpg Also the KAC FH's for NT4 use correct on Mod0/BKI as well so you will see a lot of them. http://i.imgur.com/8CLlOX4l.jpg View Quote KAC FH can be correct for a Block II as that is the only suppressor MARSOC is running. Never heard why they didn't convert over. I had to order some KAC FH for stock in Iraq as I only had the SF4Ps and needed to work on their guns. CD |
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De Oppresso Liber
Iraq: 91,03,04,05,06,08,09, 15 & 16' Afganistan: 09,10,11', & 14' |
Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
If I remember correctly this isn't true. I think the 231 and 231a have a deeper water proof rating and go through different testing from EOTech. I also remember reading years back that 553s with 231 markings aren't real 231s, they're just 553s using a 231 baseplate. You can tell a real .mil 231 because it won't have any L3 or EOTech markings, just like the 231a. And yes, as someone as rightly already pointed out, almost all pics of MARSOC using the series it's just a regular EXPS whereas ARMY pics are almost always 231as. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
Originally Posted By Stoner25mkiv:
The EXPS3-0 that you are looking at is the same as the issued version..........minus one detail. It isn't going to have the laser etched SU number/wording on it......same as the SU-230 has laser etched wording that the commercial version Elcan doesn't If I remember correctly this isn't true. I think the 231 and 231a have a deeper water proof rating and go through different testing from EOTech. I also remember reading years back that 553s with 231 markings aren't real 231s, they're just 553s using a 231 baseplate. You can tell a real .mil 231 because it won't have any L3 or EOTech markings, just like the 231a. And yes, as someone as rightly already pointed out, almost all pics of MARSOC using the series it's just a regular EXPS whereas ARMY pics are almost always 231as. Tiny, thanks for the additional info on specifics of 231a's. Point I was making is that OP would see the difference between an EXPS3-0 and an SU-231a via the etched "SU" markings and what is on commercial versions.....just as an SU-230 LOOKS like a commercial model except for the SU/operational instructions etched. (and yes......the reticle differences) EDIT: notice that 3 posts above shows the very rare su231-A (hey Brodband.....did you send that 231A back for a refund, or do you still have it? |
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Originally Posted By Virginia_Shooter:
Hey Mk18 crew! Wanted to ask about the "correctness" of a couple items. I doubt my build will ever actually achieve perfect clone status, but I'm trying to keep it somewhat authentic. Asking about the below items, and how "close" they are to being correct or seen/used in the field. X300 with or without pressure switch kit AXTS raptor charging handle Black KAC front sight Aimpoint T1 Thanks for the help! Hopefully post some pics up soon. View Quote All of these have been "seen in the wild" but are not common. Plus, I don't think that we have ever seen more than 1 of these items on the same gun. The more you start to deviate from the SOPMOD accessories the further you get from a clone. |
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Dean Winchester wishes he was this cool
MD, USA
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Originally Posted By sbye:
All of these have been "seen in the wild" but are not common. Plus, I don't think that we have ever seen more than 1 of these items on the same gun. The more you start to deviate from the SOPMOD accessories the further you get from a clone. View Quote black rails and black sights can be easily made clone-correct with a quick shot of off-gassed propellant and lacquer-based color. |
Cunnilingus aside, that is fucking awesome.
--secretwheelman Perfection can't be achieved from inside the rattle can. --RTUtah |
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Originally Posted By HAMMERF0RGED:
I finally have a gun I can post in here that's actually cloney. I'm usually not a VFG fan but it helps with the handling dramatically and allows me to reach the dual switch easier, PEQ should be added shortly and I think this one is done. http://i.imgur.com/assySmD.jpg View Quote That gun is awesome. Have you ever tried the Magpul AFG? That works really well for reaching the dual switch. Edit: it also works well for keeping the cords secured. Here is a shot where you can see both sides where the cords run. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By sbye:
That gun is awesome. Have you ever tried the Magpul AFG? That works really well for reaching the dual switch. Edit: it also works well for keeping the cords secured. Here is a shot where you can see both sides where the cords run. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/260726/20160820-171937-1-1-123070.JPG View Quote I have a Gripstop on my other 10.3" and aesthetically I think it looks better but only works for me if I run the dual switch at the 12:00 (not going to work with a peq), I've never tried a AFG but thought it might have the same effect, might be worth checking it out because I do like that cord management |
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Originally Posted By TNW:
Specific clone. AFG related. View Quote Needs moar corncob. I really thought about cloning that one too. I keep getting sucked back into aimpoints for some reason. ETA to answer above regarding the switch, you'd likely just block the illuminator and not the laser (if you're right handed) |
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Originally Posted By HAMMERF0RGED:
I have a Gripstop on my other 10.3" and aesthetically I think it looks better but only works for me if I run the dual switch at the 12:00 (not going to work with a peq), I've never tried a AFG but thought it might have the same effect, might be worth checking it out because I do like that cord management View Quote I have a tan AFG I'll send you. It's the regular version and I don't like it as much as the AFG 2. Just PM me your address. |
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OK, Several pages back I have pics of my start to a CQB clone in pistol form, while I wait on my Form 1. Now after constantly looking at this thread, it has got me spending more cashola. Meaning, I had a great deal on a PSA premium 10.5 CHF upper that was the basis of it, now because of all this group think, I am going to pick up a 6920 OEM from my LGD and will be getting the upper cut down to 10.3. Then I am going to use the colt lower to start my Mk12 build. After that is done, I'll get another colt lower to SBR for my CQB, to make it more propper.
I've had a few 14.5's P/W at Adco, but never a barrel cut down. Can I send them the KAC NT4 FH and have them time the threads so I dont need to use the shims? Also, do they need to rework the port or do any mods other than the cutting and re-threading? I wish this thread didnt exist... I would have been happy with my pseudo clone with all the CQD, KAC, and other odds and ends. Also, where do I get a Gen 1 Sopmod? |
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Live Free or Die
NRA Patron Member |
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Originally Posted By Jlgil73:
OK, Several pages back I have pics of my start to a CQB clone in pistol form, while I wait on my Form 1. Now after constantly looking at this thread, it has got me spending more cashola. Meaning, I had a great deal on a PSA premium 10.5 CHF upper that was the basis of it, now because of all this group think, I am going to pick up a 6920 OEM from my LGD and will be getting the upper cut down to 10.3. Then I am going to use the colt lower to start my Mk12 build. After that is done, I'll get another colt lower to SBR for my CQB, to make it more propper. I've had a few 14.5's P/W at Adco, but never a barrel cut down. Can I send them the KAC NT4 FH and have them time the threads so I dont need to use the shims? Also, do they need to rework the port or do any mods other than the cutting and re-threading? I wish this thread didnt exist... I would have been happy with my pseudo clone with all the CQD, KAC, and other odds and ends. Also, where do I get a Gen 1 Sopmod? View Quote Yes you'll have to get port work when you chop the barrel and its free with the barrel cutting service from ADCO. Just specify you want a .070 (mk18 spec) when you send your barrel in. Not sure on timing the NT4 but honestly I'd just use the shims vs paying for extra work. Just look at the EE under lower parts, they pop up pretty often or put a WTB out. Going rate for a gen1 LMT is anywhere from 100-150 |
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What is the correct stock for a Block II? I see SOPMOD on the list, but is it Gen 1 or Gen 2? I've seen multiple pictures with black and multiple with FDE, so I'm guessing color isn't too big a deal.
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Always check your 5 and 25 while watching your 6
TX, USA
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I freaking love looking at all the clone builds, but looking back at the real deal just puts a smile on my face I can't remove. A couple of team guys used Hogue pistol grips on their rifles.
Hogue grip, electric tape and a f#$% you attitude. Attached File |
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has anyone ever ran a mk12 PRI fsb on a block 1 or mod 0 mk18? any pics of such maybe an arms room special? i have a 10.5 but i swapped the fsb for a PRI becuase its just so nice not to have a fsb under my red dot.
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Please excuse my ways.
former 45B, Small-Arms Instructor, DOL 3rd shop Tech. Machinist. ~do what you love~ |
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Originally Posted By HAMMERF0RGED:
I finally have a gun I can post in here that's actually cloney. I'm usually not a VFG fan but it helps with the handling dramatically and allows me to reach the dual switch easier, PEQ should be added shortly and I think this one is done. http://i.imgur.com/assySmD.jpg View Quote |
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Originally Posted By HAMMERF0RGED:
I've seen that picture and i'm going to ask you since its the first thing I thought of, do you not block the laser when actuating the dual switch with it in front of the LAM? P.S. Badass rifle btw View Quote It's really common to see pics with guys having their rifle setup like this lately. I think there's some school out there teaching it. And yes, presumably they're only using the white light button on the dual switch and when they need to use the laser they're using the fire button on the top of the laser, not the dual switch. The dual switch is just still used because it's either a)already what's around or b)an integrated picatinny mount vs. having to tape it on. Having it setup like this let's you get that extended C-clamp that's all the range right now for daytime shooting. |
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Originally Posted By TinyCrumb:
It's really common to see pics with guys having their rifle setup like this lately. I think there's some school out there teaching it. And yes, presumably they're only using the white light button on the dual switch and when they need to use the laser they're using the fire button on the top of the laser, not the dual switch. The dual switch is just still used because it's either a)already what's around or b)an integrated picatinny mount vs. having to tape it on. Having it setup like this let's you get that extended C-clamp that's all the range right now for daytime shooting. View Quote I feel like it would bother the hell out of me. *side note* - does anyone have or know where I can get an empty insight box for the m3x? Have the light and both switches, my OCD is kicking and would like the plastic box as well. Thanks ahead. |
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A1- I love the paint. Jealous all around.
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Don't come back to Afghanistan. -Taliban, 5/31/14
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46381179@N04/ |
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Are there any units using AMBI magazine releases on their MK18's for the Lefties?
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Originally Posted By JohnnySasaki20:
Yeah, he still has it. I know this because he won't sell it to me, lol. I technically need the even rarer XPS3-0 though. I'm starting to think those Tier Juan guys are trolling me. Anyway, I think the 552 is going to be the placeholder for now. (Also specific clone, just not very accurate yet, lol) <img src="" /> <img src="" /> I'm currently trying to figure out how to get the screws off the bottom of the g33 mount. I got one out, but I stripped the shit out of the other one. Edit: Nvm. <img src="" /> <img src="" /> View Quote This is bad ass. Why not just use the tan XPS2-0? Nice Wilcox riser/flip mount. I use them on my Block II. I had several tan ones earlier this year, but I ended up selling all of them. I should have just kept one. =( |
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Originally Posted By byou79:
This is bad ass. Why not just use the tan XPS2-0? Nice Wilcox riser/flip mount. I use them on my Block II. I had several tan ones earlier this year, but I ended up selling all of them. I should have just kept one. =( View Quote No, no. What you should have done, is kept three, and sold one to me and one to CloneD. ;) And yeah, I guess I could use the xps2-0, but,.... " /> Is the xps2-0 not discontinued too, though? |
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We're your friends. We're not like the others.
AK, USA
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Originally Posted By GeauxSouth86:
I feel like it would bother the hell out of me. *side note* - does anyone have or know where I can get an empty insight box for the m3x? Have the light and both switches, my OCD is kicking and would like the plastic box as well. Thanks ahead. View Quote I've got one you can have. Shoot me a PM and I'll mail you one this weekend. |
Too weird to live. Too rare to die.
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Originally Posted By riot1013:
You mean like this Micro? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_Quarters_Battle_Receiver#/media/File:MK18.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By riot1013:
Originally Posted By 78Staff:
Originally Posted By Virginia_Shooter:
Hey Mk18 crew! Wanted to ask about the "correctness" of a couple items. I doubt my build will ever actually achieve perfect clone status, but I'm trying to keep it somewhat authentic. Asking about the below items, and how "close" they are to being correct or seen/used in the field. X300 with or without pressure switch kit AXTS raptor charging handle Black KAC front sight Aimpoint T1 Thanks for the help! Hopefully post some pics up soon. Lights have some leeway, but most lean towards 600 series of some sort due to availability of the correct versions. X300 doesn't seem in the spirit IMO. As mentioned, Raptors seen ITW but I think CD mentioned it was unit buy? Black KAC - hey if it's a 99051 just paint it :). But just say NO to a micro T1, seen ITW also, see page 1 pics "Black KAC - hey if it's a 99051 just paint it :). But just say NO to a micro" Nope I was referring to KAC Micro Front sight :). |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
KAC FH can be correct for a Block II as that is the only suppressor MARSOC is running. Never heard why they didn't convert over. I had to order some KAC FH for stock in Iraq as I only had the SF4Ps and needed to work on their guns. CD View Quote Whaaattt? and you tell me this 7 months into waiting on a SOCOM lol |
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NRA Life Member USN Retired |
Read the nametag. You're in my world now grandma.
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Squire
"Our Costa, who art in Wyoming, thy beard come, thy will be done on the range as it is on the internet" ozzie839 I survived ARFbortion2016 and all I got was this stupid sigline |
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