3D printed lower - yes, it works. - Page 5

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 3D printed lower - yes, it works. (Page 5 of 6)

Posted: 12/4/2012 2:31:47 PM EDT

[#1]

I read this thread yesterday and then found an interesting article on Wired about it. Looks like the OP made a better lower! :)

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/weaponeers/

Posted: 12/5/2012 5:38:43 AM EDT

[#2]

Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

Posted: 12/5/2012 5:40:47 AM EDT

[#3]

What's illegal?

Posted: 12/5/2012 5:43:12 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

I have always heard it was legal to make your own guns but I do wonder with printers if the Feds might decide to change this. Pretty easy to take a STEN gun parts kit and make up a functioning fully auto gun.

Posted: 12/5/2012 5:51:56 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

Unless the firearms are manufactured for the purpose of being sold, it is perfectly legal to make a firearm as long as that firearm complies with the law:

<dt style="margin: 0px 0px 0.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-weight: bold; font-size: 12px; font-family: Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-seriff; vertical-align: baseline; text-decoration: underline; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Q: Is it legal to assemble a firearm from commercially available parts kits that can be purchased via internet or shotgun news?</dt>
<dd style="margin: 0px 1.5em 0.5em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 12px; font-family: Arial, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-seriff; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (
) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a "firearm” as defined in the
for his own personal use, <strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-style: inherit; font-size: 1em; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">but not for sale or distribution.[/span]

The
, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term "firearm” to include the following:

… (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

In addition, the National Firearms Act (
), 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), defines the term "machinegun” as:

… any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. This term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

Finally, the
, 18 U.S.C. § 922(r), specifically states the following:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under the…[
]…Section 925(d)(3).as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….

Also, 27 C.F.R. § 478.39 states:

…

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
1. (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of [§478.151(formerly 178.151)]; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts [tabulated below] are:
1. (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
2. (2) Barrels.
3. (3) Barrel extensions.
4. (4) Mounting blocks (trunnions).
5. (5) Muzzle attachments.
6. (6) Bolts.
7. (7) Bolt carriers.
8. (8) Operating rods.
9. (9) Gas pistons.
10. (10) Trigger housings.
11. (11) Triggers.
12. (12) Hammers.
13. (13) Sears.
14. (14) Disconnectors.
15. (15) Buttstocks.
16. (16) Pistol grips.
17. (17) Forearms, handguards.
18. (18) Magazine bodies.
19. (19) Followers.
20. (20) Floor plates.

…

As a result of a 1989 study by the U.S. Treasury Department regarding the importability of certain firearms, an import ban was placed on military-style firearms. This ban included not only military-type firearms, but also extended to firearms with certain features that were considered to be "nonsporting.”

Among such nonsporting features were the ability to accept a detachable magazine; folding/telescoping stocks; separate pistol grips; and the ability to accept a bayonet, flash suppressors, bipods, grenade launchers, and night sights.

Please note that the foreign parts kits that are sold through commercial means are usually cut up machineguns, such as Russian AK-47 types, British Sten types, etc. Generally, an acceptable semiautomatic copy of a machinegun is one that has been significantly redesigned. The receiver must be incapable of accepting the original fire-control components that are designed to permit full automatic fire. The method of operation should employ a closed-bolt firing design that incorporates an inertia-type firing pin within the bolt assembly.

Further, an acceptably redesigned semiautomatic copy of nonsporting firearm must be limited to using less than 10 of the imported parts listed in 27
§ 478.39(c). Otherwise, it is considered to be assembled into a nonsporting configuration per the provisions of 18 U.S.C. 925(d)(3) and is thus a violation of § 922(r).

Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (
s). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27
478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.

</dd>

Posted from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html

Perhaps you should do some research before making such strongly worded statements.

Posted: 12/5/2012 12:51:49 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

you are confused, no more illegal than completing an 80% lower for yourself

Posted: 12/5/2012 1:50:45 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

Wow

Maybe you should go check firearms laws and then come back.

Also, they already make polymer lowers, they sometimes break, but I don't know of anyone "blowing themselves up" with one...

Posted: 12/5/2012 2:05:20 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Now, there's a genius plan...let's all start manufacturing firearms illegally with a 3D printer. These fucking morons are just begging for the ATF to come kick in the door...and I hope they do. I'm not uptight or straight-laced, but this shit is flat-out unsafe and irresponsible.

And they're not doing any favors for the rest of us. Kids start blowing themselves up with these things and it'll somehow be the gun industry's fault.

Please cite the Federal Reg that supports your position.

Posted: 12/19/2012 8:26:27 AM EDT

[#9]

Hi guys, I am helping Cody with much of the technical issues with this project.

First off - no laws are being broken, Cody is making home made title-1 firearms and maintaining possession - something that is still currently legal.

He has filed for a manufacturing FFL and then will get the SOT add-on so that in the event he prints an AOW or something like that - it won't matter as he will be licensed to do that.

In the mean time I am helping him with the AR stuff to gain valuable knowledge about materials and manufacturing techniques - the goal is NOT printable AR lowers, but that is what he is allowed to do in "the land of the free" currently.

The goal is a 100% printable gun. Yes I know the materials are not there yet - so calm down with the "they are going to put an eye out" crap. The point is to get minds working on the problems - only then can you solve them. One of the reasons the AR lower is a great learning process is because in the event of a catastrophic failure........nothing really happens.

I can tell you that reading some of the comments here and elsewhere makes my head hurt......

Posted: 12/19/2012 11:36:56 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Hi guys, I am helping Cody with much of the technical issues with this project.

First off - no laws are being broken, Cody is making home made title-1 firearms and maintaining possession - something that is still currently legal.

He has filed for a manufacturing FFL and then will get the SOT add-on so that in the event he prints an AOW or something like that - it won't matter as he will be licensed to do that.

In the mean time I am helping him with the AR stuff to gain valuable knowledge about materials and manufacturing techniques - the goal is NOT printable AR lowers, but that is what he is allowed to do in "the land of the free" currently.

The goal is a 100% printable gun. Yes I know the materials are not there yet - so calm down with the "they are going to put an eye out" crap. The point is to get minds working on the problems - only then can you solve them. One of the reasons the AR lower is a great learning process is because in the event of a catastrophic failure........nothing really happens.

I can tell you that reading some of the comments here and elsewhere makes my head hurt......

You would never be able to make a 3D Printable barrel/chamber, even if it was possible it would be outrageously expensive.

Posted: 12/19/2012 11:49:33 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hi guys, I am helping Cody with much of the technical issues with this project.

First off - no laws are being broken, Cody is making home made title-1 firearms and maintaining possession - something that is still currently legal.

He has filed for a manufacturing FFL and then will get the SOT add-on so that in the event he prints an AOW or something like that - it won't matter as he will be licensed to do that.

In the mean time I am helping him with the AR stuff to gain valuable knowledge about materials and manufacturing techniques - the goal is NOT printable AR lowers, but that is what he is allowed to do in "the land of the free" currently.

The goal is a 100% printable gun. Yes I know the materials are not there yet - so calm down with the "they are going to put an eye out" crap. The point is to get minds working on the problems - only then can you solve them. One of the reasons the AR lower is a great learning process is because in the event of a catastrophic failure........nothing really happens.

I can tell you that reading some of the comments here and elsewhere makes my head hurt......

You would never be able to make a 3D Printable barrel/chamber, even if it was possible it would be outrageously expensive.

Never say never.... 2 years ago people said you'd never print a receiver!

The barrel and chamber couldn't be polymer (using current polymers, at least) but a CNC lathe could take care of it. Even if it couldn't be done with a single machine, a 100% home CNC'd rifle is completely feasible.

Posted: 12/19/2012 12:05:39 PM EDT

[#12]

Those stupid Wright brothers, don't they know that heavier than air flight is impossible?!

I get so tired of people telling me what I am not capable of - usually the man saying something cannot be done is interrupted by the man doing it.

Posted: 12/19/2012 1:20:35 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hi guys, I am helping Cody with much of the technical issues with this project.

First off - no laws are being broken, Cody is making home made title-1 firearms and maintaining possession - something that is still currently legal.

He has filed for a manufacturing FFL and then will get the SOT add-on so that in the event he prints an AOW or something like that - it won't matter as he will be licensed to do that.

In the mean time I am helping him with the AR stuff to gain valuable knowledge about materials and manufacturing techniques - the goal is NOT printable AR lowers, but that is what he is allowed to do in "the land of the free" currently.

The goal is a 100% printable gun. Yes I know the materials are not there yet - so calm down with the "they are going to put an eye out" crap. The point is to get minds working on the problems - only then can you solve them. One of the reasons the AR lower is a great learning process is because in the event of a catastrophic failure........nothing really happens.

I can tell you that reading some of the comments here and elsewhere makes my head hurt......

You would never be able to make a 3D Printable barrel/chamber, even if it was possible it would be outrageously expensive.

Never say never.... 2 years ago people said you'd never print a receiver!

The barrel and chamber couldn't be polymer (using current polymers, at least) but a CNC lathe could take care of it. Even if it couldn't be done with a single machine, a 100% home CNC'd rifle is completely feasible.

The difference is he wants a 100% printable gun, which is a retarded idea. He could do it much more effectively and cheaper with a lathe and a rifling machine.

He would need a Laser Sintering machine to print a barrel and it would be WAY more expensive and slower than a lathe + rifling machine.

Posted: 12/19/2012 2:13:17 PM EDT

[#14]

A paper printer that costs $30 and takes a few minutes to setup and get working *used* to be "a retarded idea".

You are thinking about this subject without considering the incredible speed at which this tech is advancing.

If you stop thinking like a dinosaur, you would realize that it's a matter of time before it gets stronger/better/faster/cheaper - just like everything else......

Posted: 12/19/2012 2:23:03 PM EDT

[#15]

Print the serialized part

Assemble gun from parts kit

Sarah Brady's head explodes

Profit

Posted: 12/19/2012 2:27:50 PM EDT

[#16]

Keep us updated Sharky, it's been cool watching it all unfold.

Posted: 12/19/2012 2:29:46 PM EDT

[#17]

Oh, forgot to add, get busy making some magazines, we seem to be running short of them at the moment.

Posted: 12/21/2012 7:17:43 AM EDT

[#18]

You could use Electron Beam Melting technology to print the barrel, bolt, and other high stress parts. Any EEs out there want to develop the makerbot version of this?

Posted: 12/21/2012 8:54:36 AM EDT

[#19]

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/12/21/click-print-shoot-guns-made-on-3-d-printers-not-as-farfetched-idea-as-it-sounds/

Posted: 1/11/2013 8:37:37 AM EDT

[#20]

In the not too far future we will be able to buy firearms the same way we buy music now. Pay, download, print.......

Posted: 1/11/2013 9:12:12 AM EDT

[#21]

being kind of old I am quite impressed by these things. I had seen an interesting thread of a magazine made this way.

you guy's tear it up, see what you can do. this tech. stuff moves so fast nowadays I can't keep track.

I sure enjoy reading about it though!

Posted: 1/12/2013 11:20:41 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I have always heard it was legal to make your own guns but I do wonder with printers if the Feds might decide to change this. Pretty easy to take a STEN gun parts kit and make up a functioning fully auto gun.

You can make a Sten by going to Home Depot. No Printer needed.

Posted: 1/12/2013 11:21:43 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Hi guys, I am helping Cody with much of the technical issues with this project.

First off - no laws are being broken, Cody is making home made title-1 firearms and maintaining possession - something that is still currently legal.

He has filed for a manufacturing FFL and then will get the SOT add-on so that in the event he prints an AOW or something like that - it won't matter as he will be licensed to do that.

In the mean time I am helping him with the AR stuff to gain valuable knowledge about materials and manufacturing techniques - the goal is NOT printable AR lowers, but that is what he is allowed to do in "the land of the free" currently.

The goal is a 100% printable gun. Yes I know the materials are not there yet - so calm down with the "they are going to put an eye out" crap. The point is to get minds working on the problems - only then can you solve them. One of the reasons the AR lower is a great learning process is because in the event of a catastrophic failure........nothing really happens.

I can tell you that reading some of the comments here and elsewhere makes my head hurt......

You would never be able to make a 3D Printable barrel/chamber, even if it was possible it would be outrageously expensive.

Never say never.... 2 years ago people said you'd never print a receiver!

The barrel and chamber couldn't be polymer (using current polymers, at least) but a CNC lathe could take care of it. Even if it couldn't be done with a single machine, a 100% home CNC'd rifle is completely feasible.

There are printers that do metal.

Posted: 1/13/2013 12:30:42 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

You could use Electron Beam Melting technology to print the barrel, bolt, and other high stress parts. Any EEs out there want to develop the makerbot version of this?

Laser sintering has better resolution than Electrob Beam. EOS EOSINT makes the best machine, but costs $250k+

Whats neat, is that the parts are production quality. Titanium, stainless steel...plastic metal mix.

anyway, you could make one if you have a 200-400watt Ytterbium-Fibre (Yb) laser and some knowledge

Posted: 1/13/2013 9:00:52 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
He would need a Laser Sintering machine to print a barrel and it would be WAY more expensive and slower than a lathe + rifling machine.

What's a "rifling machine" ?

Posted: 1/13/2013 9:16:14 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
He would need a Laser Sintering machine to print a barrel and it would be WAY more expensive and slower than a lathe + rifling machine.

What's a "rifling machine" ?

I had to look that one up.

Posted: 1/13/2013 9:23:05 AM EDT

[#27]

1. Insert knife

2. Twist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q10Jz2qIog8&feature=player_embedded

Posted: 1/13/2013 10:05:57 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
He would need a Laser Sintering machine to print a barrel and it would be WAY more expensive and slower than a lathe + rifling machine.

What's a "rifling machine" ?

I had to look that one up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvnKSfDUCWY

Holy crap! "Single-point cutter / one grove at a time"?!? That is some incredibly labor-intensive cutting!

I'll never bitch about our broaching machines at my shop, I'll never complain about what Universal Broaching charges us for deep broaching we can't handle, and I'll never question the price of Douglas barrels again!

Posted: 1/13/2013 10:12:39 AM EDT

[#29]

Would it be illegal for me to use someones 3d printer to make this myself? Or do i have to own the 3d printer? probably a retarded question but I am just making sure.

Posted: 1/13/2013 10:28:01 AM EDT

[#30]

You would have to be the one physically there, hitting "print."

Just like a cnc mill. You can borrow some time on your buddy's, but you should be the one doing the "work," and make sure it doesn't transfer possession to anyone else during the process while it can be considered a firearm.

When in doubt, err on the side of caution, and do it yourself.

Best,
JBR

Posted: 1/17/2013 6:21:10 PM EDT

[#31]

HaveBlue,

Is there a current location for your beefed up lower (either final or in progress)? The links posted earlier in the thread are dead links now since thingiverse took them down.

If it was posted and I missed it, I apologize.

Posted: 1/18/2013 12:15:44 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
HaveBlue,

Is there a current location for your beefed up lower (either final or in progress)? The links posted earlier in the thread are dead links now since thingiverse took them down.

If it was posted and I missed it, I apologize.

Defense Distributed has the original version here: http://defcad.org/ar-15-reinforced-lower-receiver/
I believe it's also on The Pirate Bay somewhere.

I'll have it on my own site at some point as well, as well as the enhanced trigger guard that Thingiverse took down.

Posted: 1/18/2013 7:53:10 PM EDT

[#33]

Just to get you all salivating.. 3D printing in metal

Posted: 1/18/2013 8:44:38 PM EDT

[#34]

What's the highest .223/5.56 round count on a 3D printed lower that you have reached/know of?

Posted: 1/18/2013 9:06:47 PM EDT

[#35]

got mine all setup to build in my RP machine.... glass filled nylon- Will see how it works

Posted: 1/18/2013 10:06:17 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
got mine all setup to build in my RP machine.... glass filled nylon- Will see how it works

This is a 2nd Tag!

Posted: 1/18/2013 10:45:33 PM EDT

[#37]

http://www.video.theblaze.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=25560075&source=THEBLAZE

ETA: The Thor IV lower looks nice!

http://defcad.org/lts-thor-iv-223-lower-receiver/

Posted: 1/19/2013 12:01:07 AM EDT

[#38]

Would this work?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FF3D-Dual-Printing-Head-3D-Printer-w-free-1-75mm-ABS-white-New-Year-Deal-/160906631997?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2576c85b3d

Would be great if someone could sum up everything in a single post for things like best printer that is affordable, material, design file, software, etc

Posted: 1/20/2013 8:09:07 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

got mine all setup to build in my RP machine.... glass filled nylon- Will see how it works

Sooooo

?

Posted: 1/21/2013 8:33:42 AM EDT

[#40]

Anyone know the minimum size the tray can be to print the 30 round magazines? Can one print one diagonally on an 8x8x8?

Posted: 1/21/2013 11:53:48 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
What's the highest .223/5.56 round count on a 3D printed lower that you have reached/know of?

I have 2-300 rounds of .22 through mine, but due to buffer tower flex (and thus cycling issues), I've only put about a dozen round of .223 through mine.

Posted: 1/21/2013 5:08:24 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's the highest .223/5.56 round count on a 3D printed lower that you have reached/know of?

I have 2-300 rounds of .22 through mine, but due to buffer tower flex (and thus cycling issues), I've only put about a dozen round of .223 through mine.

So it's more than enough for a .22LR dedicated build! Awesome!

Posted: 1/21/2013 7:28:04 PM EDT

[#43]

So, what y'all are sayin' is this...
Instead of begging Magpul to start making this part for this gun, or this size magazine, or "when is this coming out?"

We can now just design and make our own???

I can imagine some of the custom made parts that could be made with this tech.

Amazing, truly amazing.

Posted: 1/23/2013 7:01:37 PM EDT

[#44]

Can someone print a bunch of 80% lowers and start shipping them out? It would be a lot easier to finish those than metal ones. Tons of .22lrs could made, if they dont hold up to .223/5.56.

Posted: 1/23/2013 7:50:35 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Can someone print a bunch of 80% lowers and start shipping them out? It would be a lot easier to finish those than metal ones. Tons of .22lrs could made, if they dont hold up to .223/5.56.

It would probably be faster to just cast a bunch of abs lowers. Ive actually been wondering how hard it is to cast a lower lately.

On a 3d printing related note, what do you guys think about using PVA instead of ABS?
The new MaketBot Replicator 2 looks awesome but it uses PVA only. I have used the older version makerbot with ABS a year or two ago in school and the resolution kinda sucked but the parts being made from the replicator 2 look sick.

Posted: 1/23/2013 8:24:17 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Can someone print a bunch of 80% lowers and start shipping them out? It would be a lot easier to finish those than metal ones. Tons of .22lrs could made, if they dont hold up to .223/5.56.

Yup. There's a service called Redeye. They have big 3d printers, and use them for small-scale production runs. I don't know what their policies are on 80% lowers, or if they do firearm parts at all, but here's a link.

http://www.redeyeondemand.com/Default.aspx

I knew that subscription to Desktop Engineer would pay off someday

( www.deskeng.com )

Best,
John Bear Ross