User Panel
Posted: 7/7/2011 12:07:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
So just an introduction to this thread - its purpose is to show off your Block II clone builds; here is a list of some of the common characteristics and equipment that the Block II M4A1s have:
THE Block II Chart (courtesy of Patriot_Man) Barrel: 14.5" M4 or SOCOM contour barrel Flash Hider: KAC NT4 Surefire 4P Suppressors: KAC NT4 Surefire SOCOM RC Rail System: Early Block II M4A1s still used the KAC M4 RIS/RAS DD RIS II in dark earth Vertical grips Tango down battle grip in tan KAC Grip-Pod Rail panels: Tango Down KAC Front sight: KAC flip up in tan standard front sight base (if early Block II with M4 RIS/RAS) Optics: Elcan Specter DR SU-230 EOTech SU-231-PEQ (EOTech 553) EOTech SU-231A-PEQ (EOTech EXPS03) ACOG SU-237 (TA01-ECOS) EOTech/Aimpoint 3x magnifiers IR Lasers: Insight AN/PEQ-15/LA-5 Flashlight: Insight M3 (SU-233/PVS) Insight WMX200 Rear sight: KAC 300m KAC 600m MaTech Buttstock: standard M4 (both older CAR style and newer "LE" style) LMT SOPMOD some reference pics Attached File Attached File early block II more early Block IIs Just to reiterate, you don't have to have an EXACT copy of a Block II M4A1 to post your rifle up here, but the purpose is to post pictures of our rifles that we've made specifically to emulate the issue Block II weapon system - if you've got a midlength carbine with an UBR stock that just happens to have a RIS II on it it is likely you did not intend the rifle be a "clone" of the newest generation M4A1, and probably doesn't belong in this picture thread. Rifles that have no Block II components ie standard M4geries with Block I Optics do not embody the purpose of this thread and though they are nice weapons in their own right, shouldn't be posted in this thread to avoid unnecessary clutter. Originally Posted By Augee: The easiest visual discriminator of whether you're looking at a SOPMOD equipped M4A1 or an MWS M4 is usually the identity of who is holding it. If it's a SOF troop, it's probably a SOPMOD M4[A1]. If it's a conventional troop, it's probably an M4 MWS. SOPMOD = SOF MWS = Conventional The SOPMOD program was initially fielded in 1996, and the two have not significantly converged or crossed over at all since then, and there is almost no commonality between systems used in the two. They are separate lines of development and evolution managed by two totally different components (Army and Navy). SOPMOD is run by NSWC-Crane to equip SOF M4A1 Carbines with accessories. There are two distinct "blocks" as identified by NSWC-Crane PowerPoints as the primary source of information, however, there was a "transitional period" of several years in which carbines with items from both blocks were used. Because of a PowerPoint slide that was published (IIRC?) 2006 showing a block labeled "phased replacement," it has become the colloquial term for "transitional" configurations. "Block x" does NOT refer, in an "official" sense to a specific configuration of rifle. It refers to specific modifications (read accessories) to the SOF M4A1 weapon system that are managed by Crane. Colloquially we refer to M4A1s with accessories from the first block of the SOPMOD program as "Block 1," while using "Block 2" to describe carbines with the RIS II, one of the last components of the second block of the SOPMOD program to be fielded. Carbines with the accessories/features of both blocks of the SOPMOD program, but without the RIS II, we refer to as "Phased Replacement." It is important to note, however, that this colloquial classification is generally limited to this thread, and others both here and on other sites that feed off of it. The important thing to understand is that the SOPMOD program is almost always limited to SOF only, and 99% of the time, the "actual" weapon in question will be an M4A1, not an M4. The M4 is a conventional forces weapon system, and is totally separate from the SOPMOD program and SOF modifications, though they were "inspired" by the SOPMOD program, almost every single actual item is different. The M4 is managed by the Army overall through TACOM, though the Marine Corps also manages their own programs through their own directorates for their specific incarnation of the M4. The M4 is a conventional forces platform, and is upgraded through modular weapon system (MWS) upgrades. There are no specific blocks, increments, or generations, and their specifics vary by time period, unit, and MTOE. ~Augee View Quote |
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"Soldier, you need to turn your ACOG off before the batteries die." - PMI Instructor, subject matter expert
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? View Quote Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. |
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Would a Troy rail be acceptable? Meaning did they use them at all?
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Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? View Quote I posted one on the EE with Colt 14.5 SOCOM block 2 in the description recently. It sat for a few days with zero interest and I took it down and decided to keep it. |
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Originally Posted By LsuJon: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/06CBD6C7-D452-497E-9DED-8AB882418183_jpe-2242213.JPG View Quote |
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Originally Posted By Rsatch: I posted one on the EE with Colt 14.5 SOCOM block 2 in the description recently. It sat for a few days with zero interest and I took it down and decided to keep it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Rsatch: Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? I posted one on the EE with Colt 14.5 SOCOM block 2 in the description recently. It sat for a few days with zero interest and I took it down and decided to keep it. You should sell it on GB. |
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Originally Posted By Theodoric: That barrel looks like a 16". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Theodoric: Originally Posted By LsuJon: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/06CBD6C7-D452-497E-9DED-8AB882418183_jpe-2242213.JPG Agreed. |
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By HD2006: https://i.imgur.com/sdRxMJI.jpg View Quote Hot lineup. Which is your favorite? |
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Originally Posted By Honda4828: Hot lineup. Which is your favorite? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Honda4828: Originally Posted By HD2006: https://i.imgur.com/sdRxMJI.jpg Hot lineup. Which is your favorite? URGI is getting the most use right now. Mainly because I want to get used to shooting with an LPVO. However the non FSP with Elcan will forever be my favorite. |
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Would be cool if the other socom units adopt the RIS III. I wouldn't be surprised if we see individual purchases though.
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By LsuJon: Would be cool if the other socom units adopt the RIS III. I wouldn't be surprised if we see individual purchases though. View Quote Agreed. Press info shows similar rail sizes aswell, I'm more interested in the weight differences between the two. I'd happily chop up a spare Cqbr upper to try one out. |
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Wtb: Wilcox T1/T2 Nightforce ring cap mount
"A Mk18 is a handgun with a stock"/"10.3 is a 50 yard and in gun" - From SHTF AR Thread |
Hey onii-chan, I need me sum potato chippies
USA
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I just got my stripped m4a1 upper from brownells - unfortunately the upper reciever is marked Daniel Defense (I was hoping they were still shipping the blank uppers but no dice).
Possibly stupid question: If I go ahead and get this setup Pin/weld with a 4 prong - will I be able to switch out the upper for one that is unmarked at a later time or do I need to do that before I pin/weld? Worried that I will not be able to uninstall/re-install rail system around a welded 4 prong... |
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: I just got my stripped m4a1 upper from brownells - unfortunately the upper reciever is marked Daniel Defense (I was hoping they were still shipping the blank uppers but no dice). Possibly stupid question: If I go ahead and get this setup Pin/weld with a 4 prong - will I be able to switch out the upper for one that is unmarked at a later time or do I need to do that before I pin/weld? Worried that I will not be able to uninstall/re-install rail system around a welded 4 prong... View Quote You can but I would switch out the upper first. |
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: I just got my stripped m4a1 upper from brownells - unfortunately the upper reciever is marked Daniel Defense (I was hoping they were still shipping the blank uppers but no dice). Possibly stupid question: If I go ahead and get this setup Pin/weld with a 4 prong - will I be able to switch out the upper for one that is unmarked at a later time or do I need to do that before I pin/weld? Worried that I will not be able to uninstall/re-install rail system around a welded 4 prong... View Quote I was pretty bummed about that as well when I received mine. I haven’t done a pin/weld yet because I’ve been contemplating what to do now. Do I spend more money and look for a colt upper, or just use it as is and be done with it. |
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If you even think you might want to change it out then now is a good time. Colt parts can be feast or famine and right now there seems to be plenty of uppers out there.
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Originally Posted By pezboytate: You can but I would switch out the upper first. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: I just got my stripped m4a1 upper from brownells - unfortunately the upper reciever is marked Daniel Defense (I was hoping they were still shipping the blank uppers but no dice). Possibly stupid question: If I go ahead and get this setup Pin/weld with a 4 prong - will I be able to switch out the upper for one that is unmarked at a later time or do I need to do that before I pin/weld? Worried that I will not be able to uninstall/re-install rail system around a welded 4 prong... You can but I would switch out the upper first. It’s really easy to swap the receiver on a non FSP. It really wouldn’t make a difference if the flash hider is installed or not. Now an FSP upper, that’s a different story. Still possible with a pin/weld flash hider but a much bigger pain. |
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Hey onii-chan, I need me sum potato chippies
USA
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Hey onii-chan, I need me sum potato chippies
USA
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Originally Posted By StevieJ309: If you even think you might want to change it out then now is a good time. Colt parts can be feast or famine and right now there seems to be plenty of uppers out there. View Quote If I can change it later its not a big deal - I just wanted to make sure it was possible before I sent stuff off to adco (they are still the go-to right?). |
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Originally Posted By HD2006: It’s really easy to swap the receiver on a non FSP. It really wouldn’t make a difference if the flash hider is installed or not. Now an FSP upper, that’s a different story. Still possible with a pin/weld flash hider but a much bigger pain. View Quote Please explain how it's "really easy" when you have muzzle device pinned. |
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Originally Posted By RichieRich562: I was pretty bummed about that as well when I received mine. I haven’t done a pin/weld yet because I’ve been contemplating what to do now. Do I spend more money and look for a colt upper, or just use it as is and be done with it. View Quote Big Tex has cage code stripped uppers in stock, if you're looking for one. |
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Originally Posted By pezboytate: Please explain how it's "really easy" when you have muzzle device pinned. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By HD2006: It’s really easy to swap the receiver on a non FSP. It really wouldn’t make a difference if the flash hider is installed or not. Now an FSP upper, that’s a different story. Still possible with a pin/weld flash hider but a much bigger pain. Please explain how it's "really easy" when you have muzzle device pinned. This is strictly for non FSP RIS II’s. Unbolt and remove rail from bolt up plate, remove gas tube. Loosen barrel nut and slide off receiver and down the barrel. Remove barrel and bolt up plate, bolt up plate is between the receiver and barrel nut. Reverse process to reinstall on new receiver. For a receiver swap I wouldn’t remove the muzzle device even if it wasn’t pinned/welded. |
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Originally Posted By HD2006: This is strictly for non FSP RIS II’s. Unbolt and remove rail from bolt up plate, remove gas tube. Loosen barrel nut and slide off receiver and down the barrel. Remove barrel and bolt up plate, bolt up plate is between the receiver and barrel nut. Reverse process to reinstall on new receiver. For a receiver swap I wouldn’t remove the muzzle device even if it wasn’t pinned/welded. View Quote What about the M203 hangers that don't fit over the muzzle device? |
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Originally Posted By pezboytate: What about the M203 hangers that don't fit over the muzzle device? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By HD2006: This is strictly for non FSP RIS II’s. Unbolt and remove rail from bolt up plate, remove gas tube. Loosen barrel nut and slide off receiver and down the barrel. Remove barrel and bolt up plate, bolt up plate is between the receiver and barrel nut. Reverse process to reinstall on new receiver. For a receiver swap I wouldn’t remove the muzzle device even if it wasn’t pinned/welded. What about the M203 hangers that don't fit over the muzzle device? Fair point, I don’t have those installed. I suppose my point is moot if the M203 hangers are still installed. Is it possible to remove them with the rail installed? |
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Originally Posted By HD2006: Fair point, I don’t have those installed. I suppose my point is moot if the M203 hangers are still installed. Is it possible to remove them with the rail installed? View Quote I think I may have done it once with a cut down Allen key but I don't remember if it was possible or not. Definitely more room with an NT4 vs a 4 prong if you are going to try it. You can slide the rail forward a couple of inches at least and kind of access the barrel nut with the rail dangling off the barrel at least. |
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Do you guys recommend pinning the gas block? Would a BCM low profile gas block also fit under the RIS II rail if I can’t find the Daniel Defense MK12?
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: If I can change it later its not a big deal - I just wanted to make sure it was possible before I sent stuff off to adco (they are still the go-to right?). View Quote Your gas block and barrel nut will be permanently with the barrel (until you get the flash hider unpinned) but everything else is removable. You can still slide a non fsp rail off relatively easily and I have done it. Like mentioned before you will have to remove the 203 hangers. I did mine with a full size Allen key and all it took was some maneuvering of the rail and barrel and some patience. |
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By HD2006: Fair point, I don’t have those installed. I suppose my point is moot if the M203 hangers are still installed. Is it possible to remove them with the rail installed? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HD2006: Originally Posted By pezboytate: Originally Posted By HD2006: This is strictly for non FSP RIS II’s. Unbolt and remove rail from bolt up plate, remove gas tube. Loosen barrel nut and slide off receiver and down the barrel. Remove barrel and bolt up plate, bolt up plate is between the receiver and barrel nut. Reverse process to reinstall on new receiver. For a receiver swap I wouldn’t remove the muzzle device even if it wasn’t pinned/welded. What about the M203 hangers that don't fit over the muzzle device? Fair point, I don’t have those installed. I suppose my point is moot if the M203 hangers are still installed. Is it possible to remove them with the rail installed? I just did a upper swap last week on non front sight post, that still had the hangers installed. It is a SBR so it’s not pinned and welded, but I never removed the flash hider, or the gas block, I did have to remove the lower rail panel, but that was it. Quick, well is quick as it can be to swap uppers.on a side note I didn’t even remove the gas tube as it doesn’t interfere with the barrel nut anyway. I think the FSP would be the same as other than having to remove the front sight to slide it forward, it’s been so long since I did one of those so from memory I think it’s doable as well, you can’t reinstall the front sight until the rail is in place anyway? Like I said I may be wrong as it’s been a couple of years since I did one of those. |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
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Originally Posted By wissota4: Those actually come off. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By wissota4: Originally Posted By pezboytate: What about the M203 hangers that don't fit over the muzzle device? Those actually come off. I left mine on as I continue to kick around the idea of getting a M203 then if the mounts are still on it I do remove them, (I did on another) and couldn’t find them anywhere so I figured they ended up getting tossed. |
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How much crack did you have to smoke to reach that conclusion, a $20 rock or Whitney Houston level shit?
”Guitargod1985” |
Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. Just got a email in stock at G&R |
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Originally Posted By Herk-Healer: Just got a email in stock at G&R View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Herk-Healer: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. Just got a email in stock at G&R Appreciate the look bro. Just got a stripped socom @ARguy81 @Herk-Healer |
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Originally Posted By Honda4828: Appreciate the look bro. Just got a stripped socom @ARguy81 @Herk-Healer View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Honda4828: Originally Posted By Herk-Healer: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. Just got a email in stock at G&R Appreciate the look bro. Just got a stripped socom @ARguy81 @Herk-Healer Heck Yeah! Now, are these barrels .625 or .750? I have a spare A frame FSB and will use that if it fits. |
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Originally Posted By ARguy81: Heck Yeah! Now, are these barrels .625 or .750? I have a spare A frame FSB and will use that if it fits. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ARguy81: Originally Posted By Honda4828: Originally Posted By Herk-Healer: Originally Posted By borderpatrol: Originally Posted By ARguy81: Been keeping an eye out for the 14.5 SOCOM barrels and haven't seen any reasonably priced lately. They are going for over $1000 on GB, is that normal? Get on a waiting list with any or all of the major supply houses. There is no way in hell that I would pay a grand for a SOCOM barrel. Just got a email in stock at G&R Appreciate the look bro. Just got a stripped socom @ARguy81 @Herk-Healer Heck Yeah! Now, are these barrels .625 or .750? I have a spare A frame FSB and will use that if it fits. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but Socoms and true government profiles should all be .750 gbj. |
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Originally Posted By FONTY: That’s correct. Brownells has Colt Socom fsb barrels in stock. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By FONTY: Originally Posted By Honda4828: Someone correct me if I’m wrong but Socoms and true government profiles should all be .750 gbj. That’s correct. Brownells has Colt Socom fsb barrels in stock. Ayup. As an FYI For anyone looking G&r has the fsb socom for $315 and Brownells has it for $350. G&R didn’t charge tax either. The stripped socom is OOS now at g&r. |
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Originally Posted By Honda4828: Ayup. As an FYI For anyone looking G&r has the fsb socom for $315 and Brownells has it for $350. G&R didn’t charge tax either. The stripped socom is OOS now at g&r. View Quote That’s a good price from G&R, they also have stripped Colt 10.3 for $230. I missed the stripped Socom barrels |
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any one have set of these rail covers they are willing to part with? The three piece set one not the ladder panel.
Attached File |
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By LsuJon: any one have set of these rail covers they are willing to part with? The three piece set one not the ladder panel. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/A9CAECA6-98C4-4252-BF4E-5F529DD2F963_jpe-2247568.JPG View Quote No but I want that rail! |
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Originally Posted By LsuJon: any one have set of these rail covers they are willing to part with? The three piece set one not the ladder panel. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316069/A9CAECA6-98C4-4252-BF4E-5F529DD2F963_jpe-2247568.JPG View Quote I might I'll look when I get home |
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Hey onii-chan, I need me sum potato chippies
USA
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So I got one of those big Tex uppers to fix this DD marked Bullshit from Brownells...
Now I am hunting for a lower. Is something like this from TNT going to give me close enough markings or do I have to go to CCC route? Any better-priced options avail I am missing? https://www.tntgear.com/catalog/product-detail.php?ID=4263 https://charliescustomclones.com/colt-carbine-lower-receiver-complete-2020-2021-production/ |
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: So I got one of those big Tex uppers to fix this DD marked Bullshit from Brownells... Now I am hunting for a lower. Is something like this from TNT going to give me close enough markings or do I have to go to CCC route? Any better-priced options avail I am missing? https://www.tntgear.com/catalog/product-detail.php?ID=4263 https://charliescustomclones.com/colt-carbine-lower-receiver-complete-2020-2021-production/ View Quote |
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IG @bayou_bengal-rifles
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: So I got one of those big Tex uppers to fix this DD marked Bullshit from Brownells... Now I am hunting for a lower. Is something like this from TNT going to give me close enough markings or do I have to go to CCC route? Any better-priced options avail I am missing? https://www.tntgear.com/catalog/product-detail.php?ID=4263 https://charliescustomclones.com/colt-carbine-lower-receiver-complete-2020-2021-production/ View Quote Lots of guys have used Palmetto State Armory's "M4A1" marked stripped lower. They look really nice on a clone build. |
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Hey onii-chan, I need me sum potato chippies
USA
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Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: Do these come in stock often? I would take this or the areo precision m4a1 clone lower in a heartbeat... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By HAMBURGERATTACK: Originally Posted By wayfaerer320: Lots of guys have used Palmetto State Armory's "M4A1" marked stripped lower. They look really nice on a clone build. Do these come in stock often? I would take this or the areo precision m4a1 clone lower in a heartbeat... Looks like they're out of stock at the moment, but yes - it's usually not long before they're in stock again. |
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I have quite a big pile of those DD rail covers if you or anyone else is interested. Also does anyone know if the EXPS3-2s were issued/purchased or just the EXPS3-0s. Thanks
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