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Posted: 7/7/2011 12:07:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
So just an introduction to this thread - its purpose is to show off your Block II clone builds; here is a list of some of the common characteristics and equipment that the Block II M4A1s have:
THE Block II Chart (courtesy of Patriot_Man) Barrel: 14.5" M4 or SOCOM contour barrel Flash Hider: KAC NT4 Surefire 4P Suppressors: KAC NT4 Surefire SOCOM RC Rail System: Early Block II M4A1s still used the KAC M4 RIS/RAS DD RIS II in dark earth Vertical grips Tango down battle grip in tan KAC Grip-Pod Rail panels: Tango Down KAC Front sight: KAC flip up in tan standard front sight base (if early Block II with M4 RIS/RAS) Optics: Elcan Specter DR SU-230 EOTech SU-231-PEQ (EOTech 553) EOTech SU-231A-PEQ (EOTech EXPS03) ACOG SU-237 (TA01-ECOS) EOTech/Aimpoint 3x magnifiers IR Lasers: Insight AN/PEQ-15/LA-5 Flashlight: Insight M3 (SU-233/PVS) Insight WMX200 Rear sight: KAC 300m KAC 600m MaTech Buttstock: standard M4 (both older CAR style and newer "LE" style) LMT SOPMOD 
some reference pics  Attached File Attached File
 early block II
 more early Block IIs
Just to reiterate, you don't have to have an EXACT copy of a Block II M4A1 to post your rifle up here, but the purpose is to post pictures of our rifles that we've made specifically to emulate the issue Block II weapon system - if you've got a midlength carbine with an UBR stock that just happens to have a RIS II on it it is likely you did not intend the rifle be a "clone" of the newest generation M4A1, and probably doesn't belong in this picture thread. Rifles that have no Block II components ie standard M4geries with Block I Optics do not embody the purpose of this thread and though they are nice weapons in their own right, shouldn't be posted in this thread to avoid unnecessary clutter. Originally Posted By Augee: The easiest visual discriminator of whether you're looking at a SOPMOD equipped M4A1 or an MWS M4 is usually the identity of who is holding it. If it's a SOF troop, it's probably a SOPMOD M4[A1]. If it's a conventional troop, it's probably an M4 MWS. SOPMOD = SOF MWS = Conventional The SOPMOD program was initially fielded in 1996, and the two have not significantly converged or crossed over at all since then, and there is almost no commonality between systems used in the two. They are separate lines of development and evolution managed by two totally different components (Army and Navy). SOPMOD is run by NSWC-Crane to equip SOF M4A1 Carbines with accessories. There are two distinct "blocks" as identified by NSWC-Crane PowerPoints as the primary source of information, however, there was a "transitional period" of several years in which carbines with items from both blocks were used. Because of a PowerPoint slide that was published (IIRC?) 2006 showing a block labeled "phased replacement," it has become the colloquial term for "transitional" configurations. "Block x" does NOT refer, in an "official" sense to a specific configuration of rifle. It refers to specific modifications (read accessories) to the SOF M4A1 weapon system that are managed by Crane. Colloquially we refer to M4A1s with accessories from the first block of the SOPMOD program as "Block 1," while using "Block 2" to describe carbines with the RIS II, one of the last components of the second block of the SOPMOD program to be fielded. Carbines with the accessories/features of both blocks of the SOPMOD program, but without the RIS II, we refer to as "Phased Replacement." It is important to note, however, that this colloquial classification is generally limited to this thread, and others both here and on other sites that feed off of it. The important thing to understand is that the SOPMOD program is almost always limited to SOF only, and 99% of the time, the "actual" weapon in question will be an M4A1, not an M4. The M4 is a conventional forces weapon system, and is totally separate from the SOPMOD program and SOF modifications, though they were "inspired" by the SOPMOD program, almost every single actual item is different. The M4 is managed by the Army overall through TACOM, though the Marine Corps also manages their own programs through their own directorates for their specific incarnation of the M4. The M4 is a conventional forces platform, and is upgraded through modular weapon system (MWS) upgrades. There are no specific blocks, increments, or generations, and their specifics vary by time period, unit, and MTOE. ~Augee |
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Posted: 12/2/2020 11:48:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: Awesome thank you! Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: Originally Posted By pezboytate: CQD front is issued. C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK. No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase. Awesome thank you! Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)? I believe they ship with the loop in the rear mounted at the rear of the rail but just put it where you want. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:22:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: Originally Posted By GHOS7: Even though I love my acog I still find my self tempted to sell and try an elcan sometimes. I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan? I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 1:35:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate: CQD front is issued. C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK. No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase. I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers. CD |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 5:19:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GHOS7]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: I wouldn’t trade my Ecos for an Elcan. Given i don’t have much time behind the Elcan like the Acog but between the weight & reticle I liking the Acog a little better. My opinion might change with more use though. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/236598/F34DD2AC-482E-4A58-8D6C-19D1CBA69CC2_jpe-1711843.JPG Good to hear. That's pretty much why I haven't made any serious moves. Seems there's a good consensus of guys that own both but favor the acog. Those block2 plus elcan aesthetics tho <3 |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:43:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: Awesome thank you! Follow up: I know there is individual preference for sling mounting position, but in an “as issued” condition would the correct position be loop forward(bolt heads on top) or loop rear(bolt heads on bottom)? There are pictures of them both ways. I prefer loop forward. Do whatever makes you happy. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 9:08:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers. CD Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Originally Posted By pezboytate: CQD front is issued. C keyhole is GTG. CAGE haven't been seen in use yet AFAIK. No QD mount is what is issued. Anything else would be private purchase. I've rebuilt and issued many Blk II with FN cage coded uppers. CD We were talking about Colt CAGE. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 9:48:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate: We were talking about Colt CAGE. My bad, haven't seen any of those. CD |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 11:13:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan? I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down. @HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 1:05:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: @HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: Originally Posted By HD2006: How do you like the piggybacked Docter sight on the Elcan? I just picked up a mount but am having a hard time tracking one down. @HD2006 I like it, been using them on Acog’s for 10yrs. Optics Planet shows 5 in stock for $329 free ship. @FONTY, thanks for the heads up. I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 3:55:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: @FONTY, thanks for the heads up. I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked. the instagram milsurp sellers get them in a few times a year. you have to jump quick. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:05:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FONTY]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: @FONTY, thanks for the heads up. I’m really trying to find an older one that’s still marked Docter as opposed to Noblex how the new ones are marked. @HD2006 I checked eurooptics they have used Doctor’s in stock $229. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:21:46 PM EDT
[#12]
It took me over a year to find a tanodized 3.5 Doctor, wound up finding a NOS here in the EE. Must of been in there transition period cause it came in a Noblex box Doctor marked.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:39:58 PM EDT
[#13]
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USA
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Posted: 12/5/2020 4:40:28 PM EDT
[#14]
nice build man
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2020 5:35:00 PM EDT
[#15]
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:24:15 PM EDT
[#16]
So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper.
colt c upper Colt bcm and charging handle Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower) Badger mk12 gas block SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it) FDE RIS II CQD sling mount Kac taupe front sight(on back order) Kac big knob rear Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have. Colt complete lower H2 buffer and “gold spring” Geissele ssa Gen 1coyote brown sopmod Colt ambi safety(on back order) So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip. It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips. Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black? |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:42:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper. colt c upper Colt bcm and charging handle Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower) Badger mk12 gas block SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it) FDE RIS II CQD sling mount Kac taupe front sight(on back order) Kac big knob rear Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have. Colt complete lower H2 buffer and “gold spring” Geissele ssa Gen 1coyote brown sopmod Colt ambi safety(on back order) So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip. It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips. Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black? Any of the ergos would work. Heck you could even to fde for the color if you wanted. I like a more aggressive texture in my grips, so If I were doing ergo it be that one. I however have the bcm mod 3 in fde on my block II |
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Posted: 12/6/2020 11:52:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: So here’s my build list, just waiting on final parts for the upper. colt c upper Colt bcm and charging handle Fn 14.5 socom barrel (dimpled, no sight tower) Badger mk12 gas block SF4p(I really agonized about pin/welding this but decided to go ahead and do it) FDE RIS II CQD sling mount Kac taupe front sight(on back order) Kac big knob rear Now just finishing the lower, here’s what I have. Colt complete lower H2 buffer and “gold spring” Geissele ssa Gen 1coyote brown sopmod Colt ambi safety(on back order) So the only thing I have left to get(that’s not on back order) is the grip. It really seems BCM is the current hotness, but I think I prefer ergo grips. Problem I’m having is there are a TON of ergo grips. Can anyone make a recommendation as to what would be the most “correct” grip? I see there is a newer “grip 2” but don’t think this would be correct, so I’m assuming it would be just the standard “suregrip” in black? Colt A2 |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2020 12:09:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate: Colt A2 Yes I realize that is the standard, I meant which would be the most “correct” of the ergo models |
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Posted: 12/8/2020 11:58:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Does anyone have any other pictures of ACOGs/SU-237s on Block II clones aside from these? I note these are all in LaRue mounts (except for maybe the last photo in a Bobro mount?) with Troy front/rear BUIS while almost every other Block II I've see have KAC front/rear BUIS.
  
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Posted: 12/9/2020 12:40:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: Does anyone have any other pictures of ACOGs/SU-237s on Block II clones aside from these? I note these are all in LaRue mounts (except for maybe the last photo in a Bobro mount?) with Troy front/rear BUIS while almost every other Block II I've see have KAC front/rear BUIS. The reason those rifles look different is because they all belong to Asymmetric Warfare Group. The unit's driving purpose was to develop new strategies, techniques, and equipment solutions to various emerging problems the Army was facing. For instance, they were among the first users to equip the HK416. It should come as no surprise then to see their M4's configured with non-standard optics or BUIS. And to that later point, there are plenty of pictures of different ACOG's mounted to Block II rifles such as the ones you posted. However, essentially none of them depict *actual* SU-237's purchased and supplied under any SOPMOD program of record. That designation belongs to the TA-01 variant ECOS model—and from what I understand there were very, very few actually delivered under contract before the SU-230 (Elcan Specter DR) superseded it in every respect. As a result confirmed sightings are extremely elusive. Especially considering the timeframe we're talking about predates the prevalence, much less the very notion, of a camera equipped smart phone in every soldier's pocket. In fact the only photos I have ever come across depicting legitimate SU-237 ACOG's date back to the late trials period/early fielding of the Mk16 SCAR weapon program:    I am, like you, on the hunt for more. So if anyone else has verifiable photos we would love to see them. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/9/2020 4:12:08 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 12/9/2020 5:06:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11b4v]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: Su237 definitely w/ %100 confidence. Black su-231 can only remember seeing it on a Marines m4a1 Pr Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: Originally Posted By mdavis: I've been trying to find evidence of either black EOTech 553s (SU231) or ECOS ACOGs (SU237) on M4A1 Block IIs, but my Google-fu is weak (or I'm using the wrong keywords). Is there any evidence of either being used on these guns? SF Group recently training in Germany apparently has one, black SU231 on a rifle. With the LMT fixed sights, it could be personally owned. Pic taken from an article at The War Zone on SF's Hard Target Defeat Companies.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 5:11:41 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 12/20/2020 5:56:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GHOS7]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/316069/657F7D87-BB61-4A70-AD86-0ECA116732B2_jpe-1740386.JPG Everything in this pic 
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Posted: 12/20/2020 11:47:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11b4v: SF Group recently training in Germany apparently has one, black SU231 on a rifle. With the LMT fixed sights, it could be personally owned. Pic taken from an article at The War Zone on SF's Hard Target Defeat Companies. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/778/SF_with_black_231_jpg-1722879.JPG Panzer Kaserne also has Navy NSW units attached. Could have been traded. CD |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2020 1:45:53 PM EDT
[#27]
FSP to rejoin the mix soon.
 
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Posted: 12/23/2020 7:40:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rcfallen: FSP to rejoin the mix soon. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50751062263_7723400f05_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50751800351_7101b9293e_c.jpg 
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Posted: 12/23/2020 10:16:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/316069/657F7D87-BB61-4A70-AD86-0ECA116732B2_jpe-1740386.JPG Ditch the buis? |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 1:54:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: Ditch the buis? |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:07:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rcfallen: FSP to rejoin the mix soon. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50751062263_7723400f05_c.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50751800351_7101b9293e_c.jpg  Nice. |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 10:07:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Got the Docter mounted up. Looking forward to trying it out.
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:20:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: Got the Docter mounted up. Looking forward to trying it out. https://i.imgur.com/YICj5rX.jpg Nice. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:32:01 PM EDT
[#34]
So stuck with the a2 grip, though not clone correct the gapper makes it tolerable.
Still have some parts to source(sights, optic) while I wait for my pin and weld to be completed, but need help with the vert foregrip. Want to go with tangdown, but which one to go along with the build? Long or short? QD or non qd? Thanks for the help, will post a pic soon when the upper is in |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:50:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HD2006]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: So stuck with the a2 grip, though not clone correct the gapper makes it tolerable. Still have some parts to source(sights, optic) while I wait for my pin and weld to be completed, but need help with the vert foregrip. Want to go with tangdown, but which one to go along with the build? Long or short? QD or non qd? Thanks for the help, will post a pic soon when the upper is in I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip. I do use a gapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help. The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip. Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:58:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip. I do use a tapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help. The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip. Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild. In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look. Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 12:13:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look. Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gmbackus: Originally Posted By HD2006: I don’t find the A2 that bad as long as it’s a Colt and not a commercial A2 grip. I do use a tapper also on all of mine and agree it’s a big help. The long (full-size) non QD Tango Down is the issue grip. Although I’m sure all variants have been seen in the wild. In the wild opens a world of possibilities, but this one will be less of a shooter so trying an “as issued” build since I’ll be using an 11.5 URGI as my regular shooter, just always loved the block 2 look. Appreciate the help, sans optic build should be done by end of January, should be a looker If that’s the case stick with the full-size non QD version. |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 7:29:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HD2006: Got the Docter mounted up. Looking forward to trying it out. https://i.imgur.com/YICj5rX.jpg I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago. 
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Posted: 12/30/2020 7:34:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SecretSquirell: I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago. |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 9:18:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: We're tanodized ones used? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LsuJon: Originally Posted By SecretSquirell: I really need to get a Doctor for mine. I passed up on a tanodized one for ~$200 not long ago. I thought I remember seeing one somewhere, but I can't remember. |
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Posted: 1/5/2021 9:31:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Semi complete build. I am really considering trading my FSP for a non FSP rail. Anyone got any leads on the non fsp ones?
 Attached File Attached File |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2021 2:53:15 PM EDT
[#42]
 Finally almost done with my build. It's taken the better part of a year to get it all together. MAR1108 Savanah rail, on a lasered 80% lower. I have a PEQ15 now, and a M600V waiting to get put on. The can isn't mine but a friends, I have a Socom RC2 in jail because Surefire cancelled my RC1  I may also get a FDE G33 and SU231A hood eventually. It's my go to rifle
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Posted: 1/9/2021 3:19:53 AM EDT
[#43]
I can finally add something to this thread! I just put together this upper, everything is new old stock, except the barrel:
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/9/2021 3:50:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCSGT0331: I can finally add something to this thread! I just put together this upper, everything is new old stock, except the barrel: https://i.imgur.com/xGPiccM.jpg https://i.imgur.com/luQ9dkC.jpg https://i.imgur.com/SHNOf3M.jpg Dig the color on that Savannah |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 11:48:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches?
Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights? Thanks! |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 12:13:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leelee: Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches? Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights? Thanks! I see the older taupe anodized front sights in EE pretty regularly. |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 12:36:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Leelee]
[#47]
Iaght, ill keep an eye out
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Posted: 1/10/2021 1:47:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Leelee: Can someone PM me the name of the dude selling custom RISII barrel nut wrenches? Also any good source out there for older tanodized KAC front sights? Thanks! IM sent CD |
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Posted: 1/10/2021 9:51:53 AM EDT
[#49]
whats the suppressor , muzzle adapter commonly used on Block II ?
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Posted: 1/10/2021 10:18:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BSOG1: whats the suppressor , muzzle adapter commonly used on Block II ? Surefire RC/RC2 or Knights NT4 |
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